Jones Day Raise/Review Forum

[LawSk3WW]

First year at JD (class of 2020). When do NLGs get their first compensation bump? Would it be July 2021 or 2022?

Additionally, if it is July 2022, what does your review look like during the summer? Do they look at hours? Do you get a feel for if you are doing well or not?

[everythingbagel]

What are NLGs?

[daolivesea]

What are NLGs?

New Lawyers Group. JD allows first years to take a year before picking a practice group.

[Anonymous User]

Not to hijack, but similar question: when do entering clerks receive their first paybump? The July after starting?

[Anonymous User]

Not to hijack, but similar question: when do entering clerks receive their first paybump? The July after starting?

Yes, it's the following July unless NYC to 200k (which could happen in any month)

[2013]

Not to hijack, but similar question: when do entering clerks receive their first paybump? The July after starting?

Yes, it's the following July unless NYC to 200k (which could happen in any month)

Is NY to 200k finally a real thing?

[Anonymous User]

Not to hijack, but similar question: when do entering clerks receive their first paybump? The July after starting?

Yes, it's the following July unless NYC to 200k (which could happen in any month)

Quoted questioner here. I haven't been up on the news. Is the NYC market considering going to 200? Or is this particular to Jones Day?

[Anonymous User]

Not that I know of, but it could happen in light of raising minimum wage, etc. In any event, the point is that unless a special raise occurs randomly in the year, usual raise occurs in the following July.

[Anonymous User]

Not to hijack, but similar question: when do entering clerks receive their first paybump? The July after starting?

Yes, it's the following July unless NYC to 200k (which could happen in any month)

When clerks at Jones Day start, do they start at second year salary (i.e. 200k), or do they start at $190k and the raise in July is the raise to second year salary?

[Anonymous User]

Bumping question on NLG raises for c/o 2020. Do they happen in July 2021 or July 2022? I’ve heard conflicting things internally.

[Anonymous User]

Not to hijack, but similar question: when do entering clerks receive their first paybump? The July after starting?

I received an offer a couple of months before July and was told that my salary would remain the same for like 15 months until the next July.

[Anonymous User]

Bumping question on NLG raises for c/o 2020. Do they happen in July 2021 or July 2022? I’ve heard conflicting things internally.

Less than helpful datapoint...but I have always heard about JD that you get the (nominal) bump in the first July and that that is the last time you are paid the same or more than your peers at other firms...

[Anonymous User]

Incoming member of the 2021 class in DC/NYC/LA, and hoping they at least raise us to 200 to start, but can't decide how optimistic to be.

[Anonymous User]

Retracted. Looks like an implicit threat on page 3.

[Anonymous User]

Yes I'm hoping they'll match market to keep the illusion alive.

[Anonymous User]

Incoming member of the 2021 class in DC/NYC/LA, and hoping they at least raise us to 200 to start, but can't decide how optimistic to be.

I would be shocked if they did not raise to $205k for first years so as to be able to continue lying to prospective law students that they pay anything near a market rate. Because JD is a garbage law firm that is actually middle market like midsize law firms, they will start bringing you below market with each pay adjustment. You should expect by your third year to be paid just a base salary in a major market with zero bonus. That is about 75% of the pay at a top law firm, and by senior associate it’s more like 60-66%. This is in major markets; in smaller markets, you are being paid half or less.

They also count on you being too stupid to know you are being underpaid by making the salary adjustments mid year. You should average the comp between the two class years to determine the market-pay scale on an apples to apples comparison.

For example, in the middle of your third year you will get an adjustment. You should add third-year base, year-end bonus, and special covid bonuses, do the same for fourth-year compensation and divide by two. That would be the correct equivalent salary if other firms were on the JD pay revision timeline.

You would be shocked by how many incompetent associates from second and third-tier law schools there are at JD who are incapable of doing this. And the at the T14 schools they have no standards. For example, at Columbia their hiring guideline is mostly B’s with an occasional B+ or A-. In other words, they will hire anywhere in the class but below median is expected. You can be a bottom Columbia student and easily get an offer at JD.

And I’m going to predict that one of JD’s social media minions shows up here to make false claims that they pay market to people in NY/DC/LA. They categorically do not, irrespective of performance. Only issues & appeals people will get something close to market. The appropriate peer law firm for JD is an Amlaw 200 like Polisnelli.

If you are a JD associate, lateral. Especially if you are a good associate. It will put extreme upwards pressure on your wages internally at the firm.

This is a weirdly angry post and much of it is either wrong or overstated. I'd encourage the people reading through this thread to look at attorney bios, read through publicly-available disclosures, and draw their own conclusions.

[Anonymous User]

Incoming member of the 2021 class in DC/NYC/LA, and hoping they at least raise us to 200 to start, but can't decide how optimistic to be.

I would be shocked if they did not raise to $205k for first years so as to be able to continue lying to prospective law students that they pay anything near a market rate. Because JD is a garbage law firm that is actually middle market like midsize law firms, they will start bringing you below market with each pay adjustment. You should expect by your third year to be paid just a base salary in a major market with zero bonus. That is about 75% of the pay at a top law firm, and by senior associate it’s more like 60-66%. This is in major markets; in smaller markets, you are being paid half or less.

They also count on you being too stupid to know you are being underpaid by making the salary adjustments mid year. You should average the comp between the two class years to determine the market-pay scale on an apples to apples comparison.

For example, in the middle of your third year you will get an adjustment. You should add third-year base, year-end bonus, and special covid bonuses, do the same for fourth-year compensation and divide by two. That would be the correct equivalent salary if other firms were on the JD pay revision timeline.

You would be shocked by how many incompetent associates from second and third-tier law schools there are at JD who are incapable of doing this. And the at the T14 schools they have no standards. For example, at Columbia their hiring guideline is mostly B’s with an occasional B+ or A-. In other words, they will hire anywhere in the class but below median is expected. You can be a bottom Columbia student and easily get an offer at JD.

And I’m going to predict that one of JD’s social media minions shows up here to make false claims that they pay market to people in NY/DC/LA. They categorically do not, irrespective of performance. Only issues & appeals people will get something close to market. The appropriate peer law firm for JD is an Amlaw 200 like Polisnelli.

If you are a JD associate, lateral. Especially if you are a good associate. It will put extreme upwards pressure on your wages internally at the firm.

This is a weirdly angry post and much of it is either wrong or overstated. I'd encourage the people reading through this thread to look at attorney bios, read through publicly-available disclosures, and draw their own conclusions.

JD categorically underpays its associates and the black box approach is garbage, but everything written about their hiring guidelines at CLS is completely wrong.

[AntipodeanPhil]

This is a weirdly angry post and much of it is either wrong or overstated. I'd encourage the people reading through this thread to look at attorney bios, read through publicly-available disclosures, and draw their own conclusions.

Hah, this sounds like one of the social media minions we've been warned about. Certainly a weird post for an associate to make.

[Anonymous User]

So, to be clear, people think I *should* be optimistic about starting at $205k in the fall in DC/NYC/LA, instead of at $190k?

[Anonymous User]

So, to be clear, people think I *should* be optimistic about starting at $205k in the fall in DC/NYC/LA, instead of at $190k?

I think they'll definitely match. My guess is they're just seeing how the market settles and determining how much they should adjust salaries for offices in secondary markets.

[Anonymous User]

They will definitely match. So much anger on here about Jones Day. If you have no interest in becoming a partner, and you only want to make as much money as possible while an associate do not go to JD.

[Anonymous User]

So, to be clear, people think I *should* be optimistic about starting at $205k in the fall in DC/NYC/LA, instead of at $190k?

I think they'll definitely match. My guess is they're just seeing how the market settles and determining how much they should adjust salaries for offices in secondary markets.

They might match, but highly skeptical of a good outcome. Several of my friends this year who started at JD after clerking (so, started as 2nd or 3rd years) started at 190-195...so already under market as soon as they started. They assumed they'd at least start at market, and by the time they found out their starting pay it was too late in the clerkship hiring process to shop around at other firms. This firm doesn't even treat clerks, its proclaimed prize jewels, well.

[Anonymous User]

Retracted.

[Anonymous User]

Deleted

[Anonymous User]

So, to be clear, people think I *should* be optimistic about starting at $205k in the fall in DC/NYC/LA, instead of at $190k?

I think they'll definitely match. My guess is they're just seeing how the market settles and determining how much they should adjust salaries for offices in secondary markets.

They might match, but highly skeptical of a good outcome. Several of my friends this year who started at JD after clerking (so, started as 2nd or 3rd years) started at 190-195...so already under market as soon as they started. They assumed they'd at least start at market, and by the time they found out their starting pay it was too late in the clerkship hiring process to shop around at other firms. This firm doesn't even treat clerks, its proclaimed prize jewels, well.

I'm confused how this is specifically Jones Day's fault. Did your friends not interview elsewhere? If not, why not? If they did, why didn't they choose another option? It's not like Jones Day waits to give you your salary until after you've signed your offer letter.

Like you, I know clerks that started at 190. However, I also know clerks that started at or above market. Best believe Jones Day treats at least some of its "prize jewels" well (or it wouldn't have nine new SCOTUS clerks this year). And who's to say the clerks Jones Day lowballs would have received an offer if it meant market pay? Everyone I know who accepted Jones Day at 190 had no other good option.