Jones Day Raise/Review Forum

[2013]

The legal community is very small in most of JD’s markets.

Except, in most of those "small" markets isn't JD the comp leader? Like, who in Cleveland/Minneapolis/Irvine/Pittsburgh is going to top JD for a 3d/4th year associate? I get the comp problem for DC/NYC/LA/Chicago, but for the truly small markets I'm not sure it holds up.

sort of nitpicky and irrelevant point but: irvine is market-paying and other firms in market include gibson, latham, paul hastings, omm, morgan lewis, irell, hueston hennigan etc...

My apologies to Irvine. I withdraw it from the list and rephrase: Who in Cleveland/Minneapolis/Pittsburgh is going to top JD for a 3d/4th year associate?

Morgan Lewis already pays market in Pittsburgh.

[Anonymous User]

Dude, JD’s social media minions are psychotically replying to their own posts so as to present JD in anything resembling a respectable light. These are the lengths a bad law firm goes to to lure in unsuspecting law students and then force down their throat low wages. Stay away from them!

If you are an associate who is underpaid at JD — meaning basically all associates — THREATEN TO LATERAL. Don’t go to your PIC - just send out feelers to other firms using recruiters. If you are good and/or billing a lot, it will show up in your compensation. Do everything possible to make as much noise as possible outside of the firm. When threatened with the loss of your revenue, JD will relent and give you somewhat better pay. Then use that better paycheck as evidence of your worth to get into a quality firm.

JD is known for playing hardball. So play hardball right back. Particularly given how far into the gutter the firm’s reputation has gone, they have no choice but to pay talented associates. They have no way of replacing you!

I’m the first year anon directly above your reply.

To respond to your comment: how would the firm know if I’m sending out feelers? Why would the firm care if a first year associate threatens to jump ship? How would the firm relenting and giving me higher pay actually play out? I can’t “stay away” since I’m already here, but would appreciate more tangible advice on how to actually maximize my comp within the firm.

At the risk of stating the obvious, I wouldn't take career advice from the person you quoted. Besides clearly having some axe to grind, their posts are bizarrely angry and paranoid. They unironically believe JD pays "media minions" to shill on TLS, they've called moderate disagreement "psychotic," and they've said that JD partners "aren’t qualified to lick the feet of the associates at a Wall Street firm." That should tell you everything you need to know about this poster's headspace.

Anyone familiar with the salary-setting process at JD knows the gamesmanship this poster recommends won't work. If you're not happy with your salary, you should lateral. And you should tell your PIC only after you've accepted an offer somewhere else. Don't use a lateral offer to barter for a higher salary, only to renege. It won't help you and it'll burn bridges.

[Anonymous User]

The legal community is very small in most of JD’s markets.

Except, in most of those "small" markets isn't JD the comp leader? Like, who in Cleveland/Minneapolis/Irvine/Pittsburgh is going to top JD for a 3d/4th year associate? I get the comp problem for DC/NYC/LA/Chicago, but for the truly small markets I'm not sure it holds up.

sort of nitpicky and irrelevant point but: irvine is market-paying and other firms in market include gibson, latham, paul hastings, omm, morgan lewis, irell, hueston hennigan etc...

My apologies to Irvine. I withdraw it from the list and rephrase: Who in Cleveland/Minneapolis/Pittsburgh is going to top JD for a 3d/4th year associate?

Morgan Lewis already pays market in Pittsburgh.

McGuire Woods just moved to market, too. Pepper Troutman (or whatever they’re calling themselves now) upped their scale and paid special bonuses. And Reed Smith and K&L also paid them, I believe. Guess which firm did not pay them?

Time was JD paid the most in Pgh, but we’re definitely well underpaid now. Everyone I know is looking, esp if we don’t get substantial raises in July.

[Anonymous User]

Work for JD in a city where they're a market leader. I'll be sending out resumes to major markets within the year if they don't make some serious movement. I'm cool with a higher COL if it means I'll be paid substantially more, and I know many others with the same view. Brogan better get his shit together, or he's going to cause a much bigger exodus than I think he realizes.

[Anonymous User]

Not sure Jd’s secondary market salary differentiation is all that tenable when the entire country is moving to a unified compensation structure due to remote work possibilities.

[Anonymous User]

The JD associates I know generally did not have vastly superior options. I would be curious to hear the stories (firsthand or secondhand) of associates who picked JD over comparable or higher-ranked firms that pay market. Is there something about the firm culture that appealed to you/your classmate? I get the leverage point, but there are a decent number of market-paying firms with comparable leverage.

https://www.chambers-associate.com/law- ... e-leverage

ETA: I am talking specifically about NY and DC markets (with the DC appellate group excepted).

Associate in California. Chose JD over Latham because of quality of life. Believe it or not, some of us are perfectly content to make close to market, but also enjoy a ton of free time outside of normal work hours.

[Anonymous User]

Associate in California. Chose JD over Latham because of quality of life. Believe it or not, some of us are perfectly content to make close to market, but also enjoy a ton of free time outside of normal work hours.

SOCIAL MEDIA HACK! PLANT! PLANT!

(Kidding. I don't understand why people have so much trouble with the concept that maybe, just maybe, money isn't everyone's single greatest priority when we're already making well over 200k?)

[Anonymous User]

.

[Anonymous User]

And though Latham is grossly inferior to firms like Sullivan and Simpson, it’s still leagues and leagues and leagues ahead of JD.

Who gives a shit. This navel gazing is so dumb. You make good points and then this sentence discounts your whole post.

[OPD1]

Associate in California. Chose JD over Latham because of quality of life. Believe it or not, some of us are perfectly content to make close to market, but also enjoy a ton of free time outside of normal work hours.

SOCIAL MEDIA HACK! PLANT! PLANT!

(Kidding. I don't understand why people have so much trouble with the concept that maybe, just maybe, money isn't everyone's single greatest priority when we're already making well over 200k?)

To all law students : The above is literally JD’s way of cheating you. They are creating multiple TLS accounts and telling you to go do illogical things they nobody in the past 30 years has done, like choose JD over Latham, a firm of vastly superior credentials, superior clients, superior profitability, and superior pay. And though Latham is grossly inferior to firms like Sullivan and Simpson, it’s still leagues and leagues and leagues ahead of JD.

Nobody — not one person — should be fooled by JD’s appalling conduct in this thread. The attempts to construct straw men, distract from reality, gaslight you, and make you drink their poisoned Koolaid are second to none.

Do not settle for less money in favor of “partnership prospects” or “better hours,” which are JD’s carrots to string along sheep. Money comes into your hand every two weeks; it is permanently yours. JD’s illusory promises are worth as much as their legal work: nothing. They have a horrible reputation for a reason. Don’t be fooled.

And no, I am not a previous poster in this thread.

I really, really hope your posts throughout this thread are satirical. You sound beyond deranged.

[Anonymous User]

As a current JD associate who has serious problems with the firm, can we please get rid of the trolls, mods? No one seriously disputes the problems with JD, but even for TLS this is next level.

[Anonymous User]

Associate in California. Chose JD over Latham because of quality of life. Believe it or not, some of us are perfectly content to make close to market, but also enjoy a ton of free time outside of normal work hours.

Could you elaborate? JD NY is not particularly known for its QOL at my school.

[Anonymous User]

As a current JD associate who has serious problems with the firm, can we please get rid of the trolls, mods? No one seriously disputes the problems with JD, but even for TLS this is next level.

CA associate. Completely agree with you. I have serious problems with the firm's political stance and management, but I would imagine that most younger JD associates have problems with all those things. That person is clearly unhinged, considering how riled up they are about a firm they don't work at.

[AntipodeanPhil]

As a current JD associate who has serious problems with the firm, can we please get rid of the trolls, mods? No one seriously disputes the problems with JD, but even for TLS this is next level.

Lol, I sincerely hope this is a social media minion, because associates trying to ban/censor other associates on this forum for stating views they disagree with about firms is even worse.

Why is everyone who posts anything positive about Jones Day on this thread posting anonymously?

[Anonymous User]

So actual JD associates (no alleged firm-employed social media minions and no pitchfork mob members): does anyone have knowledge on raises? Any speculation?

[Anonymous User]

Why is everyone who posts anything positive about Jones Day on this thread posting anonymously?

Because many of us are associates at JD sharing sensitive information and opinions about our own firm. The better question is why Mr. Social Media Minions needs to post anonymously.

[Anonymous User]

Why is everyone who posts anything positive about Jones Day on this thread posting anonymously?

Because many of us are associates at JD sharing sensitive information and opinions about our own firm. The better question is why Mr. Social Media Minions needs to post anonymously.

He/She says, posting anonymously.

[Anonymous User]

Why is everyone who posts anything positive about Jones Day on this thread posting anonymously?

Because it's been person after person who works at the firm (or is about to start), candidly sharing their views on the firm. Seems like a good use of the anon function to me.

[cheaptilts]

Why is everyone who posts anything positive about Jones Day on this thread posting anonymously?

Because it's been person after person who works at the firm (or is about to start), candidly sharing their views on the firm. Seems like a good use of the anon function to me.

This. The whole “why is everything anonymous” trope on this site needs to chill.

[Anonymous User]

Previous mid level JD associate here. JD is not a QOL firm, odd to me that anyone would think that. It’s on par with its peers in that regard, like it wasn’t over the top nuts but it’s strange to me that someone would include that in their calculus when choosing JD over somewhere else (except maybe Kirkland). I confirm that JD is usually a market leader in smaller markets, including mine. However, as someone else stated, as NY pay starts to creep into these smaller markets, JD will no longer lead. I was not paid anything close to the NY scale when I was at JD in a smaller market. Overall I really liked my time at JD. It was interesting, engaging work and the people I worked with were great. My office had a fun and chill culture. But JD will always fail against its peer firms on comp. The black box system is not in the best interest of associates and the story they try to sell about it preventing sharp elbows is just pretense. I would hope that law students choosing JD know that and go in with eyes wide open.

[Anonymous User]

I really, really hope your posts throughout this thread are satirical. You sound beyond deranged.

Sounds like an implicit threat from someone here. Shut it down people.

[Anonymous User]

Current JD associate in secondary market. I'm currently being paid less than first year associates based on new DPW scale (I'm a mid level) . Part of this is because the firm froze compensation last year due to Covid (I've been at the firm 2 years and have yet to receive a single raise).

People aren't wrong about JD. Pay is trash. I could make more than 100k more in a major market. I chose JD because it was the best firm (in terms of pay) in the secondary market I wanted to be in. I'm sure other associates know they're underpaid because my office has been hemorrhaging associates recently.

Add in it's trash stance on representing trash clients. No surprise so many of us are looking to leave.

[Anonymous User]

Any word on when we find out what our raises are?

[Anonymous User]

It’s historically always been this week.

[Anonymous User]

Also curious if anyone knows how it works. Do we get an envelope in our office? Will it be mailed because people are still remote?

Also, seconding that people are looking elsewhere if raises are not substantial. I think the partnership will be blindsided by the amount of associates with updated resumes ready to go.