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Hello. I received an offer from a firm that I am really excited about, but I have not signed the offer yet as I am still negotiating things like bonuses, benefits, start dates, etc. I am trying to be delicate about these things, but worried I might be pushing my luck too much. This may be my neurotic lawyer-self talking at the moment, but can a firm rescind an offer if a candidate makes too many demands during negotiations?

Yes, I was just reading about this yesterday.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/when-shoul ... 1614513601.

They don't want to hire a pain in the ass if they have options.

Seems like a bad idea to me at this stage of your career to jeopardize an offer you are "really excited about."

Whatever you may successfully negotiate doesn't justify the risk, at least as you've described it.

paperrev wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:13 pm

Hello. I received an offer from a firm that I am really excited about, but I have not signed the offer yet as I am still negotiating things like bonuses, benefits, start dates, etc. I am trying to be delicate about these things, but worried I might be pushing my luck too much. This may be my neurotic lawyer-self talking at the moment, but can a firm rescind an offer if a candidate makes too many demands during negotiations?

Benefits may not be negotiable.

Start dates are what they are, if you suggest one and they say no, then stick to what they suggest.

You shouldn't be negotiating bonuses much beyond whether or not yours will be prorated for the year, assuming this is big law.

Yeesh, a lot of bad advice in here.

You should negotiate start date, annual bonus, signing bonus and moving costs (if applicable). These are all very negotiable and part of the game. Too many associates fold because they desperately get want to get out of their current firm.

Realistically, it depends on how busy the group is. If you're joining a group that is dying, they will practically give you anything you want within reason. Busy firms are offering up to $50k signing bonuses right now for mid to seniors but a junior could easily get over $20k. I've personally gotten annual bonus guaranteed, not prorated hours, though prorated hours is more common.

Yes, an offer of employment can be rescinded prior to acceptance.

It's also construed as a counteroffer once you change the terms of the original offer, which operates as a rejection of the original offer.

Jchance wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:51 pm

It's also construed as a counteroffer once you change the terms of the original offer, which operates as a rejection of the original offer.

Jchance, I am the OP and am pleased to inform you that I am not just any OP, but your 1L contracts professor at the #2 ranked law school in the country, Cooley. My OP was disguised as a sincere question, but was actually your final. I am pleased to announce that you passed and have received the highest grade in the class. No need to come to class any more or actually take what the rubes believe is the final. Take the rest of the semester off, you have earned it!

Great work and I wish you the best of luck in your future career.

lolwutpar wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:52 pm

You should negotiate start date, annual bonus, signing bonus and moving costs (if applicable). These are all very negotiable and part of the game. Too many associates fold because they desperately get want to get out of their current firm.

That may be fine for laterals, but I want to clarify that current students considering a summer or post-summer offer absolutely should not do any of that. From OP's post history, I think they're trying to lateral, but that's not apparent from this post. Some 2L is going to read this and start arguing about start dates with a firm that hires 100+ of them every year, and it's not going to end well for that 2L.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:10 pm

Jchance wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:51 pm

It's also construed as a counteroffer once you change the terms of the original offer, which operates as a rejection of the original offer.

Jchance, I am the OP and am pleased to inform you that I am not just any OP, but your 1L contracts professor at the #2 ranked law school in the country, Cooley. My OP was disguised as a sincere question, but was actually your final. I am pleased to announce that you passed and have received the highest grade in the class. No need to come to class any more or actually take what the rubes believe is the final. Take the rest of the semester off, you have earned it!

Great work and I wish you the best of luck in your future career.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:04 am

lolwutpar wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:52 pm

You should negotiate start date, annual bonus, signing bonus and moving costs (if applicable). These are all very negotiable and part of the game. Too many associates fold because they desperately get want to get out of their current firm.

That may be fine for laterals, but I want to clarify that current students considering a summer or post-summer offer absolutely should not do any of that. From OP's post history, I think they're trying to lateral, but that's not apparent from this post. Some 2L is going to read this and start arguing about start dates with a firm that hires 100+ of them every year, and it's not going to end well for that 2L.

Yes, fair, I assumed lateral.

How much is there to negotiate, honestly? This sounds like a whole lot of nonsense. I get a bad vibe from you already. And yes, an employment offer can be rescinded. If you were really excited about this firm, I don't know why you'd be nitpicking about all these various extra "perks." Were any of these even offered to you or are you just trying to squeeze every dime possible out of it?

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:09 pm

How much is there to negotiate, honestly? This sounds like a whole lot of nonsense. I get a bad vibe from you already. And yes, an employment offer can be rescinded. If you were really excited about this firm, I don't know why you'd be nitpicking about all these various extra "perks." Were any of these even offered to you or are you just trying to squeeze every dime possible out of it?

lolwutpar wrote: start date, annual bonus, signing bonus and moving costs (if applicable)

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:09 pm

How much is there to negotiate, honestly? This sounds like a whole lot of nonsense. I get a bad vibe from you already. And yes, an employment offer can be rescinded. If you were really excited about this firm, I don't know why you'd be nitpicking about all these various extra "perks." Were any of these even offered to you or are you just trying to squeeze every dime possible out of it?

1) why is this anon?
2) why shouldn’t someone try to squeeze every dime possible out of a firm? The firm’s going to squeeze every dime possible out of them. It’s business. That’s how it works.
3) how on earth do you get a bad vibe from one post in this thread where the OP asks earnestly if they’re pushing it? Being concerned about your compensation doesn’t mean you’re not excited about a firm.

I agree that not everything is negotiable in every context, and yes, an employer can rescind an offer during negotiations if they like, but a good employer isn’t going to rescind over reasonable negotiations. I doubt there’s a lot that can be negotiated about benefits, but start date and relocation costs (if required) and maybe bonus seem fair game. You don’t want to go in being an aggressive dickhead, but if you ask politely and they rescind your offer then maybe that’s a sign it’s not such a great place to work.

As others have pointed out, you can negotiate your signing bonus, eligibility for an annual bonus (very important if joining midyear or later), relocation costs, and start date. If you're at least a 7th-year you can also negotiate for a counsel title, depending on the firm. I've also seen attorneys successfully negotiate for more seniority, e.g. if they did a two-year clerkship and they want to come in as a third-year rather than a second year.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:10 pm

Jchance wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:51 pm

It's also construed as a counteroffer once you change the terms of the original offer, which operates as a rejection of the original offer.

Jchance, I am the OP and am pleased to inform you that I am not just any OP, but your 1L contracts professor at the #2 ranked law school in the country, Cooley. My OP was disguised as a sincere question, but was actually your final. I am pleased to announce that you passed and have received the highest grade in the class. No need to come to class any more or actually take what the rubes believe is the final. Take the rest of the semester off, you have earned it!

Great work and I wish you the best of luck in your future career.

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