How can I make the most out of my YLS degree? Forum

[the19bouncer]

Obviously depends on your interests, but I'd consider joining a Big Law trusts and estates group. Big Law pay, but much better hours and the work for juniors is very substantive. Making partner is hard, but you can coast billing 1750 hours/year until you're a senior associate making $500,000/year. Because the practice area requires so much specialized knowledge, law firms tend to keep good associates as counsel (if not partner) indefinitely, rather than forcing them out.

It's a niche area of law, and there aren't very many openings, but with your resume you can make it happen. PM me if you're interested.

Hey, I am really interested in trusts and estates groups, was wondering if T14 law school is enough to enter this field? Is there something specific I should do in law school to help get a big lae t&e gig?

[PT818]

Generally, going to a top 14 law school should be sufficient to get you in the door because while there aren’t that many T&E first-year slots available, there also aren’t very many people from top schools who are interested. (I did t14 -> big law T&E.). Definitely take income tax and, if your school offers it, estate and gift tax.

The one catch is that a lot of big law firms don’t have T&E groups, and the ones that do mostly have very small groups. That means that if you’re really intent on doing T&E, you have to take that into account at OCI. You can’t do T&E if you end up at Latham, for example. And there’s always some risk that you go to a firm with a small group and then they don’t have space for you. A few firms, notably MWE, have huge groups that suck up lots of first years. I know people who have gone to MWE for that reason.

[Anonymous User]

Private public interest law firms are the obvious answer here

https://www.law.berkeley.edu/wp-content ... -guide.pdf

[Anonymous User]

The bump on this thread led me to read the older posts. Under no circumstances would I recommend Kline & Specter over elite lit boutiques (like Susman or Kellogg) to a YLS grad. The pay is lower across the board, it handles some less-than-reputable work (not quite slip-and-fall, but close), it is genuinely impossible to make equity partner, and the exit options are significantly worse.

[Lacepiece23]

The bump on this thread led me to read the older posts. Under no circumstances would I recommend Kline & Specter over elite lit boutiques (like Susman or Kellogg) to a YLS grad. The pay is lower across the board, it handles some less-than-reputable work (not quite slip-and-fall, but close), it is genuinely impossible to make equity partner, and the exit options are significantly worse.

There are people from T14 spread all across the firm. It’s an option that I was throwing out that isn’t otherwise available to the average T14.

I wouldn’t want to work Susman hours and Kline & Specter pays better than biglaw. Agree about exit options but lit exit options are kind of shit anyway.

Also, if you call obtaining billion dollar verdicts less than reputable, idk what to tell you.

[Anonymous User]

YLS only gives you an edge over other T14 schools if you’re trying to get a very elite clerkship, go into academia (the only place where Y truly shines over H and S), run for public office, or work at a select number of firms. And every year that elapses since graduation, it matters less and less that you went to Yale, and matters more and more what your actual skills and experience are.

[Anonymous User]

OP, I don't see a post where you're married to the idea of actually being a lawyer. Here's my thought: don't. Start running case interview prep over the next year and apply to McKinsey/BCG (Bain isn't as JD-friendly). You're smart, you can rock a MECE interview and management consulting has a better lifestyle (you travel more but you're free on weekends) and roughly equivalent comp, with a much wider and better world of exit opps. I know people at S who have pulled off the move and frankly it doesn't seem that hard outside of having little infrastructure compared to biglaw.

Edit: didn't realize OP's post was a year old, but the theory is still sound.

[Anonymous User]

The bump on this thread led me to read the older posts. Under no circumstances would I recommend Kline & Specter over elite lit boutiques (like Susman or Kellogg) to a YLS grad. The pay is lower across the board, it handles some less-than-reputable work (not quite slip-and-fall, but close), it is genuinely impossible to make equity partner, and the exit options are significantly worse.

There are people from T14 spread all across the firm. It’s an option that I was throwing out that isn’t otherwise available to the average T14.

I wouldn’t want to work Susman hours and Kline & Specter pays better than biglaw. Agree about exit options but lit exit options are kind of shit anyway.

Also, if you call obtaining billion dollar verdicts less than reputable, idk what to tell you.

Kline & Specter doesn't pay better than biglaw. Associates make less (sometimes far less) and raises are black box and subject to the whims of the named partners. Junior partners don't get equity and make far less than they would at biglaw. The only people making out like bandits are the named partners, Kline and Specter. For all I know they may be billionaires by now.

As for the quality of work, here are some of the firm's specialties, per their website: amusement park ride injuries, equine lawsuits, bicycle accidents, hoverboard fire injuries, and IKEA, furniture & TV tipping injuries. They even advertise their "slip & fall injuries" service. Granted, they've also won billion dollar judgments. However, as noted above, that money is going to Kline and Specter, not the associates (or even the other partners).

[Lacepiece23]

The bump on this thread led me to read the older posts. Under no circumstances would I recommend Kline & Specter over elite lit boutiques (like Susman or Kellogg) to a YLS grad. The pay is lower across the board, it handles some less-than-reputable work (not quite slip-and-fall, but close), it is genuinely impossible to make equity partner, and the exit options are significantly worse.

There are people from T14 spread all across the firm. It’s an option that I was throwing out that isn’t otherwise available to the average T14.

I wouldn’t want to work Susman hours and Kline & Specter pays better than biglaw. Agree about exit options but lit exit options are kind of shit anyway.

Also, if you call obtaining billion dollar verdicts less than reputable, idk what to tell you.

Kline & Specter doesn't pay better than biglaw. Associates make less (sometimes far less) and raises are black box and subject to the whims of the named partners. Junior partners don't get equity and make far less than they would at biglaw. The only people making out like bandits are the named partners, Kline and Specter. For all I know they may be billionaires by now.

As for the quality of work, here are some of the firm's specialties, per their website: amusement park ride injuries, equine lawsuits, bicycle accidents, hoverboard fire injuries, and IKEA, furniture & TV tipping injuries. They even advertise their "slip & fall injuries" service. Granted, they've also won billion dollar judgments. However, as noted above, that money is going to Kline and Specter, not the associates (or even the other partners).

Do you know anyone that works there? I do. Of course they advertise for the above mentioned cases. They then flip those cases to other lawyers that handle them for a 1/3 referral fee for doing no work.

Those same lawyers that K&S feed refer them the catastrophic case that comes around every year or two. That’s how it works on the plaintiffs side.

The work is very sophisticated and more meaningful than whatever commercial litigation that companies are fighting over.

[Anonymous User]

The bump on this thread led me to read the older posts. Under no circumstances would I recommend Kline & Specter over elite lit boutiques (like Susman or Kellogg) to a YLS grad. The pay is lower across the board, it handles some less-than-reputable work (not quite slip-and-fall, but close), it is genuinely impossible to make equity partner, and the exit options are significantly worse.

There are people from T14 spread all across the firm. It’s an option that I was throwing out that isn’t otherwise available to the average T14.

I wouldn’t want to work Susman hours and Kline & Specter pays better than biglaw. Agree about exit options but lit exit options are kind of shit anyway.

Also, if you call obtaining billion dollar verdicts less than reputable, idk what to tell you.

Kline & Specter doesn't pay better than biglaw. Associates make less (sometimes far less) and raises are black box and subject to the whims of the named partners. Junior partners don't get equity and make far less than they would at biglaw. The only people making out like bandits are the named partners, Kline and Specter. For all I know they may be billionaires by now.

As for the quality of work, here are some of the firm's specialties, per their website: amusement park ride injuries, equine lawsuits, bicycle accidents, hoverboard fire injuries, and IKEA, furniture & TV tipping injuries. They even advertise their "slip & fall injuries" service. Granted, they've also won billion dollar judgments. However, as noted above, that money is going to Kline and Specter, not the associates (or even the other partners).

Do you know anyone that works there? I do. Of course they advertise for the above mentioned cases. They then flip those cases to other lawyers that handle them for a 1/3 referral fee for doing no work.

Those same lawyers that K&S feed refer them the catastrophic case that comes around every year or two. That’s how it works on the plaintiffs side.

The work is very sophisticated and more meaningful than whatever commercial litigation that companies are fighting over.

Yes, which is how I know about the pay structure. Don't get me wrong, Kline & Specter is one of the best personal injury firms in the country. But personal injury is... let's just say, not the most coveted field of law for YLS grads. If you consider personal injury more meaningful than commercial litigation, that's of course a value judgment with no right or wrong answers. Most wouldn't call it more sophisticated, though.

[Lacepiece23]

The bump on this thread led me to read the older posts. Under no circumstances would I recommend Kline & Specter over elite lit boutiques (like Susman or Kellogg) to a YLS grad. The pay is lower across the board, it handles some less-than-reputable work (not quite slip-and-fall, but close), it is genuinely impossible to make equity partner, and the exit options are significantly worse.

There are people from T14 spread all across the firm. It’s an option that I was throwing out that isn’t otherwise available to the average T14.

I wouldn’t want to work Susman hours and Kline & Specter pays better than biglaw. Agree about exit options but lit exit options are kind of shit anyway.

Also, if you call obtaining billion dollar verdicts less than reputable, idk what to tell you.

Kline & Specter doesn't pay better than biglaw. Associates make less (sometimes far less) and raises are black box and subject to the whims of the named partners. Junior partners don't get equity and make far less than they would at biglaw. The only people making out like bandits are the named partners, Kline and Specter. For all I know they may be billionaires by now.

As for the quality of work, here are some of the firm's specialties, per their website: amusement park ride injuries, equine lawsuits, bicycle accidents, hoverboard fire injuries, and IKEA, furniture & TV tipping injuries. They even advertise their "slip & fall injuries" service. Granted, they've also won billion dollar judgments. However, as noted above, that money is going to Kline and Specter, not the associates (or even the other partners).

Do you know anyone that works there? I do. Of course they advertise for the above mentioned cases. They then flip those cases to other lawyers that handle them for a 1/3 referral fee for doing no work.

Those same lawyers that K&S feed refer them the catastrophic case that comes around every year or two. That’s how it works on the plaintiffs side.

The work is very sophisticated and more meaningful than whatever commercial litigation that companies are fighting over.

Yes, which is how I know about the pay structure. Don't get me wrong, Kline & Specter is one of the best personal injury firms in the country. But personal injury is... let's just say, not the most coveted field of law for YLS grads. If you consider personal injury more meaningful than commercial litigation, that's of course a value judgment with no right or wrong answers. Most wouldn't call it more sophisticated, though.

Well, agree to disagree on comp because we both have sources there giving us different information. And agree to disagree on sophistication. In Philly, the PI lawyers look down on the biglaw lawyers and run the city. It’s the best venue in the country for plaintiffs lawyers, and we really believe in our work (I do plaintiffs employment, not PI).

Some people like being in court and spending their days taking deps. Others like writing appellate briefs. As someone who does both, I’d argue that the better lawyers are the ones on their feet obtaining multi million or even billion dollar judgments against biglaw firms.

And I think personal injury is very important to our society. Punitive damages is the only thing keeping pharma honest. We decided as a country to deregulate everything and it’s literally on lawyers to keep industries honest.

I only still post on this site to give the plaintiffs perspective. I did five years of biglaw and the work I do now is much more sophisticated and intellectually stimulating than anything I ever did there.

Lastly, you can take a look at the profiles. I don’t think they have a YLS alum but they handpick the best taken from Penn, obviously because Penn is in Philly.

And they have other T14s with a mix of local schools that have won national mock trial competitions and graduated top of their class.

When I was in biglaw defending MDLs, Elia, who was a year or two younger than me, gave the opening statement in a case where K&S won 100 million. And the equity partner on the team wasn’t allowed to speak at the trial because she never tried a case.

This is obviously no longer about OP. But a firm like K&S is a unicorn outcome because it’s so small and offers many things that even boutiques like Susman do not for pretty great pay.

[Anonymous User]

The bump on this thread led me to read the older posts. Under no circumstances would I recommend Kline & Specter over elite lit boutiques (like Susman or Kellogg) to a YLS grad. The pay is lower across the board, it handles some less-than-reputable work (not quite slip-and-fall, but close), it is genuinely impossible to make equity partner, and the exit options are significantly worse.

There are people from T14 spread all across the firm. It’s an option that I was throwing out that isn’t otherwise available to the average T14.

I wouldn’t want to work Susman hours and Kline & Specter pays better than biglaw. Agree about exit options but lit exit options are kind of shit anyway.

Also, if you call obtaining billion dollar verdicts less than reputable, idk what to tell you.

Kline & Specter doesn't pay better than biglaw. Associates make less (sometimes far less) and raises are black box and subject to the whims of the named partners. Junior partners don't get equity and make far less than they would at biglaw. The only people making out like bandits are the named partners, Kline and Specter. For all I know they may be billionaires by now.

As for the quality of work, here are some of the firm's specialties, per their website: amusement park ride injuries, equine lawsuits, bicycle accidents, hoverboard fire injuries, and IKEA, furniture & TV tipping injuries. They even advertise their "slip & fall injuries" service. Granted, they've also won billion dollar judgments. However, as noted above, that money is going to Kline and Specter, not the associates (or even the other partners).

Do you know anyone that works there? I do. Of course they advertise for the above mentioned cases. They then flip those cases to other lawyers that handle them for a 1/3 referral fee for doing no work.

Those same lawyers that K&S feed refer them the catastrophic case that comes around every year or two. That’s how it works on the plaintiffs side.

The work is very sophisticated and more meaningful than whatever commercial litigation that companies are fighting over.

Yes, which is how I know about the pay structure. Don't get me wrong, Kline & Specter is one of the best personal injury firms in the country. But personal injury is... let's just say, not the most coveted field of law for YLS grads. If you consider personal injury more meaningful than commercial litigation, that's of course a value judgment with no right or wrong answers. Most wouldn't call it more sophisticated, though.

Well, agree to disagree on comp because we both have sources there giving us different information. And agree to disagree on sophistication. In Philly, the PI lawyers look down on the biglaw lawyers and run the city. It’s the best venue in the country for plaintiffs lawyers, and we really believe in our work (I do plaintiffs employment, not PI).

Some people like being in court and spending their days taking deps. Others like writing appellate briefs. As someone who does both, I’d argue that the better lawyers are the ones on their feet obtaining multi million or even billion dollar judgments against biglaw firms.

And I think personal injury is very important to our society. Punitive damages is the only thing keeping pharma honest. We decided as a country to deregulate everything and it’s literally on lawyers to keep industries honest.

I only still post on this site to give the plaintiffs perspective. I did five years of biglaw and the work I do now is much more sophisticated and intellectually stimulating than anything I ever did there.

Lastly, you can take a look at the profiles. I don’t think they have a YLS alum but they handpick the best taken from Penn, obviously because Penn is in Philly.

And they have other T14s with a mix of local schools that have won national mock trial competitions and graduated top of their class.

When I was in biglaw defending MDLs, Elia, who was a year or two younger than me, gave the opening statement in a case where K&S won 100 million. And the equity partner on the team wasn’t allowed to speak at the trial because she never tried a case.

This is obviously no longer about OP. But a firm like K&S is a unicorn outcome because it’s so small and offers many things that even boutiques like Susman do not for pretty great pay.

This is all fine and good and I agree in many respects. But the whole cultural stereotype of the PI lawyer advertising on the side of a bus or whatever ("have you been exposed to asbestos? you may be entitled to compensation! call 1-800-LAWYER") really makes it seem like PI lawyers are sleazy ambulance chasers who are after extortion settlements and don't do sophisticated doctrinal analysis. It's probably unfair, but that's how it's perceived.

[Anonymous User]

The bump on this thread led me to read the older posts. Under no circumstances would I recommend Kline & Specter over elite lit boutiques (like Susman or Kellogg) to a YLS grad. The pay is lower across the board, it handles some less-than-reputable work (not quite slip-and-fall, but close), it is genuinely impossible to make equity partner, and the exit options are significantly worse.

There are people from T14 spread all across the firm. It’s an option that I was throwing out that isn’t otherwise available to the average T14.

I wouldn’t want to work Susman hours and Kline & Specter pays better than biglaw. Agree about exit options but lit exit options are kind of shit anyway.

Also, if you call obtaining billion dollar verdicts less than reputable, idk what to tell you.

Kline & Specter doesn't pay better than biglaw. Associates make less (sometimes far less) and raises are black box and subject to the whims of the named partners. Junior partners don't get equity and make far less than they would at biglaw. The only people making out like bandits are the named partners, Kline and Specter. For all I know they may be billionaires by now.

As for the quality of work, here are some of the firm's specialties, per their website: amusement park ride injuries, equine lawsuits, bicycle accidents, hoverboard fire injuries, and IKEA, furniture & TV tipping injuries. They even advertise their "slip & fall injuries" service. Granted, they've also won billion dollar judgments. However, as noted above, that money is going to Kline and Specter, not the associates (or even the other partners).

Do you know anyone that works there? I do. Of course they advertise for the above mentioned cases. They then flip those cases to other lawyers that handle them for a 1/3 referral fee for doing no work.

Those same lawyers that K&S feed refer them the catastrophic case that comes around every year or two. That’s how it works on the plaintiffs side.

The work is very sophisticated and more meaningful than whatever commercial litigation that companies are fighting over.

Yes, which is how I know about the pay structure. Don't get me wrong, Kline & Specter is one of the best personal injury firms in the country. But personal injury is... let's just say, not the most coveted field of law for YLS grads. If you consider personal injury more meaningful than commercial litigation, that's of course a value judgment with no right or wrong answers. Most wouldn't call it more sophisticated, though.

Well, agree to disagree on comp because we both have sources there giving us different information. And agree to disagree on sophistication. In Philly, the PI lawyers look down on the biglaw lawyers and run the city. It’s the best venue in the country for plaintiffs lawyers, and we really believe in our work (I do plaintiffs employment, not PI).

Some people like being in court and spending their days taking deps. Others like writing appellate briefs. As someone who does both, I’d argue that the better lawyers are the ones on their feet obtaining multi million or even billion dollar judgments against biglaw firms.

And I think personal injury is very important to our society. Punitive damages is the only thing keeping pharma honest. We decided as a country to deregulate everything and it’s literally on lawyers to keep industries honest.

I only still post on this site to give the plaintiffs perspective. I did five years of biglaw and the work I do now is much more sophisticated and intellectually stimulating than anything I ever did there.

Lastly, you can take a look at the profiles. I don’t think they have a YLS alum but they handpick the best taken from Penn, obviously because Penn is in Philly.

And they have other T14s with a mix of local schools that have won national mock trial competitions and graduated top of their class.

When I was in biglaw defending MDLs, Elia, who was a year or two younger than me, gave the opening statement in a case where K&S won 100 million. And the equity partner on the team wasn’t allowed to speak at the trial because she never tried a case.

This is obviously no longer about OP. But a firm like K&S is a unicorn outcome because it’s so small and offers many things that even boutiques like Susman do not for pretty great pay.

I think we're talking past each other here. I don't disagree plaintiff's side work is fun, socially important, and a good way to get trial experience. All I'm saying is Kline & Specter in particular isn't seen as a desirable target for YLS students aspiring to that type of work because it's eclipsed in compensation, exposure, and sophistication by other prominent national boutiques. The best PI lawyers in Philly run their own firms and keep most of the pie for themselves. It's a dog-eat-dog market.

[Lacepiece23]

The bump on this thread led me to read the older posts. Under no circumstances would I recommend Kline & Specter over elite lit boutiques (like Susman or Kellogg) to a YLS grad. The pay is lower across the board, it handles some less-than-reputable work (not quite slip-and-fall, but close), it is genuinely impossible to make equity partner, and the exit options are significantly worse.

There are people from T14 spread all across the firm. It’s an option that I was throwing out that isn’t otherwise available to the average T14.

I wouldn’t want to work Susman hours and Kline & Specter pays better than biglaw. Agree about exit options but lit exit options are kind of shit anyway.

Also, if you call obtaining billion dollar verdicts less than reputable, idk what to tell you.

Kline & Specter doesn't pay better than biglaw. Associates make less (sometimes far less) and raises are black box and subject to the whims of the named partners. Junior partners don't get equity and make far less than they would at biglaw. The only people making out like bandits are the named partners, Kline and Specter. For all I know they may be billionaires by now.

As for the quality of work, here are some of the firm's specialties, per their website: amusement park ride injuries, equine lawsuits, bicycle accidents, hoverboard fire injuries, and IKEA, furniture & TV tipping injuries. They even advertise their "slip & fall injuries" service. Granted, they've also won billion dollar judgments. However, as noted above, that money is going to Kline and Specter, not the associates (or even the other partners).

Do you know anyone that works there? I do. Of course they advertise for the above mentioned cases. They then flip those cases to other lawyers that handle them for a 1/3 referral fee for doing no work.

Those same lawyers that K&S feed refer them the catastrophic case that comes around every year or two. That’s how it works on the plaintiffs side.

The work is very sophisticated and more meaningful than whatever commercial litigation that companies are fighting over.

Yes, which is how I know about the pay structure. Don't get me wrong, Kline & Specter is one of the best personal injury firms in the country. But personal injury is... let's just say, not the most coveted field of law for YLS grads. If you consider personal injury more meaningful than commercial litigation, that's of course a value judgment with no right or wrong answers. Most wouldn't call it more sophisticated, though.

Well, agree to disagree on comp because we both have sources there giving us different information. And agree to disagree on sophistication. In Philly, the PI lawyers look down on the biglaw lawyers and run the city. It’s the best venue in the country for plaintiffs lawyers, and we really believe in our work (I do plaintiffs employment, not PI).

Some people like being in court and spending their days taking deps. Others like writing appellate briefs. As someone who does both, I’d argue that the better lawyers are the ones on their feet obtaining multi million or even billion dollar judgments against biglaw firms.

And I think personal injury is very important to our society. Punitive damages is the only thing keeping pharma honest. We decided as a country to deregulate everything and it’s literally on lawyers to keep industries honest.

I only still post on this site to give the plaintiffs perspective. I did five years of biglaw and the work I do now is much more sophisticated and intellectually stimulating than anything I ever did there.

Lastly, you can take a look at the profiles. I don’t think they have a YLS alum but they handpick the best taken from Penn, obviously because Penn is in Philly.

And they have other T14s with a mix of local schools that have won national mock trial competitions and graduated top of their class.

When I was in biglaw defending MDLs, Elia, who was a year or two younger than me, gave the opening statement in a case where K&S won 100 million. And the equity partner on the team wasn’t allowed to speak at the trial because she never tried a case.

This is obviously no longer about OP. But a firm like K&S is a unicorn outcome because it’s so small and offers many things that even boutiques like Susman do not for pretty great pay.

This is all fine and good and I agree in many respects. But the whole cultural stereotype of the PI lawyer advertising on the side of a bus or whatever ("have you been exposed to asbestos? you may be entitled to compensation! call 1-800-LAWYER") really makes it seem like PI lawyers are sleazy ambulance chasers who are after extortion settlements and don't do sophisticated doctrinal analysis. It's probably unfair, but that's how it's perceived.

I guess the age old stereotypes. I don’t perceive biglaw as we will sell our souls for corporate money any better. In fact, I think it’s much worse. At least regular people get compensation after plaintiffs lawyers are done.

And yeah, maybe PI lawyers aren’t constantly digging through Westlaw. But deposing a 30b6 witness or steering an MDL is every bit as complex and probably more than the average biglaw associate gets to do.

[Lacepiece23]

The bump on this thread led me to read the older posts. Under no circumstances would I recommend Kline & Specter over elite lit boutiques (like Susman or Kellogg) to a YLS grad. The pay is lower across the board, it handles some less-than-reputable work (not quite slip-and-fall, but close), it is genuinely impossible to make equity partner, and the exit options are significantly worse.

There are people from T14 spread all across the firm. It’s an option that I was throwing out that isn’t otherwise available to the average T14.

I wouldn’t want to work Susman hours and Kline & Specter pays better than biglaw. Agree about exit options but lit exit options are kind of shit anyway.

Also, if you call obtaining billion dollar verdicts less than reputable, idk what to tell you.

Kline & Specter doesn't pay better than biglaw. Associates make less (sometimes far less) and raises are black box and subject to the whims of the named partners. Junior partners don't get equity and make far less than they would at biglaw. The only people making out like bandits are the named partners, Kline and Specter. For all I know they may be billionaires by now.

As for the quality of work, here are some of the firm's specialties, per their website: amusement park ride injuries, equine lawsuits, bicycle accidents, hoverboard fire injuries, and IKEA, furniture & TV tipping injuries. They even advertise their "slip & fall injuries" service. Granted, they've also won billion dollar judgments. However, as noted above, that money is going to Kline and Specter, not the associates (or even the other partners).

Do you know anyone that works there? I do. Of course they advertise for the above mentioned cases. They then flip those cases to other lawyers that handle them for a 1/3 referral fee for doing no work.

Those same lawyers that K&S feed refer them the catastrophic case that comes around every year or two. That’s how it works on the plaintiffs side.

The work is very sophisticated and more meaningful than whatever commercial litigation that companies are fighting over.

Yes, which is how I know about the pay structure. Don't get me wrong, Kline & Specter is one of the best personal injury firms in the country. But personal injury is... let's just say, not the most coveted field of law for YLS grads. If you consider personal injury more meaningful than commercial litigation, that's of course a value judgment with no right or wrong answers. Most wouldn't call it more sophisticated, though.

Well, agree to disagree on comp because we both have sources there giving us different information. And agree to disagree on sophistication. In Philly, the PI lawyers look down on the biglaw lawyers and run the city. It’s the best venue in the country for plaintiffs lawyers, and we really believe in our work (I do plaintiffs employment, not PI).

Some people like being in court and spending their days taking deps. Others like writing appellate briefs. As someone who does both, I’d argue that the better lawyers are the ones on their feet obtaining multi million or even billion dollar judgments against biglaw firms.

And I think personal injury is very important to our society. Punitive damages is the only thing keeping pharma honest. We decided as a country to deregulate everything and it’s literally on lawyers to keep industries honest.

I only still post on this site to give the plaintiffs perspective. I did five years of biglaw and the work I do now is much more sophisticated and intellectually stimulating than anything I ever did there.

Lastly, you can take a look at the profiles. I don’t think they have a YLS alum but they handpick the best taken from Penn, obviously because Penn is in Philly.

And they have other T14s with a mix of local schools that have won national mock trial competitions and graduated top of their class.

When I was in biglaw defending MDLs, Elia, who was a year or two younger than me, gave the opening statement in a case where K&S won 100 million. And the equity partner on the team wasn’t allowed to speak at the trial because she never tried a case.

This is obviously no longer about OP. But a firm like K&S is a unicorn outcome because it’s so small and offers many things that even boutiques like Susman do not for pretty great pay.

I think we're talking past each other here. I don't disagree plaintiff's side work is fun, socially important, and a good way to get trial experience. All I'm saying is Kline & Specter in particular isn't seen as a desirable target for YLS students aspiring to that type of work because it's eclipsed in compensation, exposure, and sophistication by other prominent national boutiques. The best PI lawyers in Philly run their own firms and keep most of the pie for themselves. It's a dog-eat-dog market.

Not necessarily. Nadeem who has a huge sexual abuse practice is a partner at K&S. David Williams who as a huge whistleblower practice is at K&S. I’d agree that the names partners get comped the most. But there are huge names on the plaintiffs sides that aren’t on the door and make biglaw partners shake in their boots when they are up against them.

[Lacepiece23]

I’ll leave this comment. I’m T14, did a clerkship, URM (which I admire K&S for valuing when they have no incentive too), and won a federal jury trial as a second year in biglaw. I didn’t get the job.

It’s very hard to work there, and I consider it to be a unicorn outcome. Whether YLS student should choose it is to the YLS student’s discretion. But I do believe that I would have had an easier time at some of the “elite” boutiques that TLS gawks at.

Working at a firm that generates probably more revenue than the boutiques touted on TLS isn’t easy. That’s why I suggested it as a possibility because with a HYS degree, you could get that outcome. T14 and nothing else, not so likely.

[nixy]

Without getting into the desirability debate, it doesn’t look like getting hired there requires having a degree from HYS or even T14. So while I don’t disagree that it’s a hard job to get, I’m not sure that the OP would have a significant advantage over other T14 grads by virtue of having gone to Yale (speaking hypothetically since the OP has likely moved on by now). I’m just not sure that traditional elite qualifications are really what the firm is hiring for.

[emptyflare]

I would suggest finding a substantive area of law that is heavily regulated and you’re interested in - eg, privacy, telecom, financial reg, healthcare, FDA. Maybe try to work at the relevant agency 1L summer, ideally in the DC office. Then try to get into a DC firm with a broad regulatory practice for your 2L summer (Wilmer, Covington, Hogan, Sidley etc). If it sounds appealing to you, shoot for a clerkship, though it’s not necessary for this path. Then go back to the firm and go into the group that appeals to you. The work will be more interesting and less demanding than most Biglaw. Do that and save for as long as feels reasonable to you, then leave for the government or in-house, for which you’ll have a great resume.

This is an incredibly underrated response imo

[Anonymous User]

I’ll leave this comment. I’m T14, did a clerkship, URM (which I admire K&S for valuing when they have no incentive too), and won a federal jury trial as a second year in biglaw. I didn’t get the job.

It’s very hard to work there, and I consider it to be a unicorn outcome. Whether YLS student should choose it is to the YLS student’s discretion. But I do believe that I would have had an easier time at some of the “elite” boutiques that TLS gawks at.

Working at a firm that generates probably more revenue than the boutiques touted on TLS isn’t easy. That’s why I suggested it as a possibility because with a HYS degree, you could get that outcome. T14 and nothing else, not so likely.

Setting aside the question of desirability, it's not clear HYS grads have any actual advantage over T14 grads (or even non-T14 grads) in getting a job at Kline & Specter. The firm prioritizes charisma and courtroom savvy over abstract legal knowledge and pedigree. It's looking for mock trial experience, clinical work, and other markers of oral advocacy skill. If anything, YLS grads may be at a disadvantage in terms of connecting with witnesses/jurors. It's hard to think of a job that leverages the YLS advantage less than working at a personal injury firm in Philadelphia.

[Lacepiece23]

I’ll leave this comment. I’m T14, did a clerkship, URM (which I admire K&S for valuing when they have no incentive too), and won a federal jury trial as a second year in biglaw. I didn’t get the job.

It’s very hard to work there, and I consider it to be a unicorn outcome. Whether YLS student should choose it is to the YLS student’s discretion. But I do believe that I would have had an easier time at some of the “elite” boutiques that TLS gawks at.

Working at a firm that generates probably more revenue than the boutiques touted on TLS isn’t easy. That’s why I suggested it as a possibility because with a HYS degree, you could get that outcome. T14 and nothing else, not so likely.

Setting aside the question of desirability, it's not clear HYS grads have any actual advantage over T14 grads (or even non-T14 grads) in getting a job at Kline & Specter. The firm prioritizes charisma and courtroom savvy over abstract legal knowledge and pedigree. It's looking for mock trial experience, clinical work, and other markers of oral advocacy skill. If anything, YLS grads may be at a disadvantage in terms of connecting with witnesses/jurors. It's hard to think of a job that leverages the YLS advantage less than working at a personal injury firm in Philadelphia.

I'd agree with you except for the fact that Shanin Specter told me that he likes HYS. I'd imagine that a lot of the elite PI firms would like to get a candidate that they normally would not get as HYS candidates do not usually apply there.

[Anonymous User]

I’ll leave this comment. I’m T14, did a clerkship, URM (which I admire K&S for valuing when they have no incentive too), and won a federal jury trial as a second year in biglaw. I didn’t get the job.

It’s very hard to work there, and I consider it to be a unicorn outcome. Whether YLS student should choose it is to the YLS student’s discretion. But I do believe that I would have had an easier time at some of the “elite” boutiques that TLS gawks at.

Working at a firm that generates probably more revenue than the boutiques touted on TLS isn’t easy. That’s why I suggested it as a possibility because with a HYS degree, you could get that outcome. T14 and nothing else, not so likely.

Setting aside the question of desirability, it's not clear HYS grads have any actual advantage over T14 grads (or even non-T14 grads) in getting a job at Kline & Specter. The firm prioritizes charisma and courtroom savvy over abstract legal knowledge and pedigree. It's looking for mock trial experience, clinical work, and other markers of oral advocacy skill. If anything, YLS grads may be at a disadvantage in terms of connecting with witnesses/jurors. It's hard to think of a job that leverages the YLS advantage less than working at a personal injury firm in Philadelphia.

I'd agree with you except for the fact that Shanin Specter told me that he likes HYS. I'd imagine that a lot of the elite PI firms would like to get a candidate that they normally would not get as HYS candidates do not usually apply there.

If your goal is to get good lawyers at your firm rather than weird bragging rights, why would you actually care about HYS as opposed to the rest of the T14? It's so elitist and stupid.

[Anonymous User]

I’ll leave this comment. I’m T14, did a clerkship, URM (which I admire K&S for valuing when they have no incentive too), and won a federal jury trial as a second year in biglaw. I didn’t get the job.

It’s very hard to work there, and I consider it to be a unicorn outcome. Whether YLS student should choose it is to the YLS student’s discretion. But I do believe that I would have had an easier time at some of the “elite” boutiques that TLS gawks at.

Working at a firm that generates probably more revenue than the boutiques touted on TLS isn’t easy. That’s why I suggested it as a possibility because with a HYS degree, you could get that outcome. T14 and nothing else, not so likely.

Setting aside the question of desirability, it's not clear HYS grads have any actual advantage over T14 grads (or even non-T14 grads) in getting a job at Kline & Specter. The firm prioritizes charisma and courtroom savvy over abstract legal knowledge and pedigree. It's looking for mock trial experience, clinical work, and other markers of oral advocacy skill. If anything, YLS grads may be at a disadvantage in terms of connecting with witnesses/jurors. It's hard to think of a job that leverages the YLS advantage less than working at a personal injury firm in Philadelphia.

I'd agree with you except for the fact that Shanin Specter told me that he likes HYS. I'd imagine that a lot of the elite PI firms would like to get a candidate that they normally would not get as HYS candidates do not usually apply there.

If your goal is to get good lawyers at your firm rather than weird bragging rights, why would you actually care about HYS as opposed to the rest of the T14? It's so elitist and stupid.

I imagine for the reason Lacepiece mentioned: HYS students usually don't apply there. It may be a way for the firm to launder its reputation. Most PI lawyers you see on billboards went to... let's just say not YLS.

[RedNewJersey]

I think one of the rare outcomes that becomes much more possible as a YLS URM is general counsel (or high-ranking in-house counsel) at a company, which is, in my view, a really great job. You get interesting questions, feel like part of the business, and have law firms to do anything really hard. Hours are better too.

And big companies love hiring URM from biglaw (if you look at why diversity is often low at many firms that hire lots of URMs, this is part of why--the exit options are disproportionately good). So, if you wanted that, you should work in a practice with those exits for a few years, then transition. Depending on the company, working in government may help too (like, to work at a bank, you could be at a firm, then the SEC / whatever regulator, then in-house).

[Tide030]

Not sure if OP is still following this. But if I were at YLS, I'd work in biglaw or a botique that paid market for two years. Enjoy making a quarter of a million dollars each year, pay off debt, and build some savings. Then, I'd clerk for a couple years for district and circuit court judges in a place with headline cases and novel legal issues. Because I'd have 2 years of post-JD experience already, I'd come into the federal govt with a six-figure salary. After clerking, I'd have a large network, broad experience, lots of opportunities, and downtime to travel before my next job. Academia, government, policy positions, elite firms -- all would be in play. And the best part would be letting my more experienced future self pick my next role. In short, OP, one of the benefits of YLS is all of your options. Don't feel like you have to pick one. You can move from one coveted position to the next. Don't stress out.