How to get to L&E biglaw? Forum

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How to get to L&E biglaw?

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:39 am

I am a 6th year associate doing L&E at an L&E boutique (think Littler, Jackson Lewis, Ogletree, etc.) As I write while about to spend an all-nighter, I wonder why I am not doing this for an full-service firm that would be paying me $300k instead of$150k.
    What's the best way for me to break into biglaw? Should I just reach out to recruiters?
      I have only been at my current gig for a year, is it too soon to jump?
        is it pointless for me to currently apply to the other firms right now or should I wait until 2 years here?

        My current firm does sophisticated work. I am working for big-name clients (Facebook, etc.), and I get to take depositions and have direct client contact with many clients. The lack of pay is just really getting to me for the amount of work I do.

        thanks all.

        Anonymous User
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        Re: How to get to L&E biglaw?

        Post by Anonymous User » Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:52 am

        Perhaps a firm like Morgan Lewis would be a good target. What kind of sophisticated matters do you work on? I used to work for a boutique plaintiffs employment firm, and usually the single plaintiff or simple wage and hour class action would be handled by firms like littler/Jackson Lewis, while the more complicated discrimination class action involving somewhat novel areas were handled by firms like Morgan Lewis, maybe Cooley, and two or three other biglaw firms that were sprinkled in.

        No idea how defense hiring works, but I think if you have a decent amount of class action experience, you’ll be a great candidate. I know a couple of people from the aforementioned plaintiffs firm that jumped to defense big law, so you’ll be good once you get solid experience

        Sackboy

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        Re: How to get to L&E biglaw?

        Post by Sackboy » Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:01 am

        If you've already been for a full year, I'd apply for mid-level and senior positions at any firm that has an L&E opening. No need to wait 2yrs. Obviously, some firms are bigger players than others, but I'd jump to any market firm with this significant of a pay differential. Based on how you describe your experience, though, you might have a tough time getting bites. If you're moving from small/local law to one of the 3 big L&E boutiques (for lack of better word) and then angling for biglaw, your resume is going to look pretty week if 5yrs of your L&E experience is small/local law and 1yr is one of the boutiques. This isn't to say don't apply, but it's to help manage expectations.

        Anonymous User
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        Re: How to get to L&E biglaw?

        Post by Anonymous User » Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:10 am

        Anonymous User wrote:
        Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:52 am
        Perhaps a firm like Morgan Lewis would be a good target. What kind of sophisticated matters do you work on? I used to work for a boutique plaintiffs employment firm, and usually the single plaintiff or simple wage and hour class action would be handled by firms like littler/Jackson Lewis, while the more complicated discrimination class action involving somewhat novel areas were handled by firms like Morgan Lewis, maybe Cooley, and two or three other biglaw firms that were sprinkled in.

        No idea how defense hiring works, but I think if you have a decent amount of class action experience, you’ll be a great candidate. I know a couple of people from the aforementioned plaintiffs firm that jumped to defense big law, so you’ll be good once you get solid experience
        Thanks, they actually have an opening for a midlevel. I have used recruiters for each of my previous firms (which were smaller L&E shops outside of my current spot). Should I use a recruiter or apply through their portal? Should I try to make a connection with an associate there to see if they would refer me? I do a lot of PAGA & class actions, but it's mixed with single plaintiff FEHA matters.

        Anonymous User
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        Re: How to get to L&E biglaw?

        Post by Anonymous User » Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:13 am

        Sackboy wrote:
        Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:01 am
        If you've already been for a full year, I'd apply for mid-level and senior positions at any firm that has an L&E opening. No need to wait 2yrs. Obviously, some firms are bigger players than others, but I'd jump to any market firm with this significant of a pay differential. Based on how you describe your experience, though, you might have a tough time getting bites. If you're moving from small/local law to one of the 3 big L&E boutiques (for lack of better word) and then angling for biglaw, your resume is going to look pretty week if 5yrs of your L&E experience is small/local law and 1yr is one of the boutiques. This isn't to say don't apply, but it's to help manage expectations.
        Thanks, yeah at this point I am just interested in getting to a market firm. With Covid, we may just be remote maybe for the rest of the year. I just want to take advantage of that and also get paid for my work. And yeah, you are right about the weak resume, which is why I wonder I should wait at least 2 years. Just hard. My bonus was literally $1k.

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        Anonymous User
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        Re: How to get to L&E biglaw?

        Post by Anonymous User » Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:24 am

        Hi - Can I tag into this conversation? I'm a 3rd year (heading into 4th year) and past two years have predominantly wage and hour class action with a number of single plaintiff cases. I'm coming from a non L&E boutique, but a Amlaw200. Any advice for which Big law firms I could target? (San Francisco area)

        Anonymous User
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        Re: How to get to L&E biglaw?

        Post by Anonymous User » Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:17 am

        As someone above mentioned, you will need to manage expectations. Unfortunately, I don’t think OP could get a Midlevel position at Morgan Lewis with the experience they have.

        I worked at a firm with a larger L&E department and I had access to many of our offer letters (reason why I’m Anon). We hired people from small firms and Littler/Jackson Lewis, but those people always had to take significant class year cuts. I’m talking 3-4 years. One I remember is a fifth year coming in as a first year.

        Unfortunately, outside of a handful of true biglaw firms, most don’t do PAGA litigation and single plaintiff work. Also, most that don’t have robust litigation departments like Proskauer, Morgan Lewis, etc., don’t even really handle much litigation work. They do a lot of consulting and due diligence work.

        I don’t think it’ll be impossible for OP to move, but OP needs to understand they won’t be making $300k right off the bat. They’ll most likely start as a 2nd or 3rd year. It sucks, but that’s the reality of not having transferable experience.

        As to OP’s other question, I would use a recruiter in your case because there’s a good chance some firms will just throw away your resume when they see your class year. A recruiter will be able to explain to the firm that you’re flexible with class year in a way you wouldn’t really be able to in a cover letter.

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        Raiden

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        Re: How to get to L&E biglaw?

        Post by Raiden » Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:36 am

        Anonymous User wrote:
        Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:17 am
        As someone above mentioned, you will need to manage expectations. Unfortunately, I don’t think OP could get a Midlevel position at Morgan Lewis with the experience they have.

        I worked at a firm with a larger L&E department and I had access to many of our offer letters (reason why I’m Anon). We hired people from small firms and Littler/Jackson Lewis, but those people always had to take significant class year cuts. I’m talking 3-4 years. One I remember is a fifth year coming in as a first year.

        Unfortunately, outside of a handful of true biglaw firms, most don’t do PAGA litigation and single plaintiff work. Also, most that don’t have robust litigation departments like Proskauer, Morgan Lewis, etc., don’t even really handle much litigation work. They do a lot of consulting and due diligence work.

        I don’t think it’ll be impossible for OP to move, but OP needs to understand they won’t be making $300k right off the bat. They’ll most likely start as a 2nd or 3rd year. It sucks, but that’s the reality of not having transferable experience.

        As to OP’s other question, I would use a recruiter in your case because there’s a good chance some firms will just throw away your resume when they see your class year. A recruiter will be able to explain to the firm that you’re flexible with class year in a way you wouldn’t really be able to in a cover letter.
        Could you PM me?

        tyroneslothrop1

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        Re: How to get to L&E biglaw?

        Post by tyroneslothrop1 » Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:35 pm

        Seyfarth Shaw does L&E. They don't pay market bonus and there's more salary compression as you progress, but they start at 180 in NY etc.

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        Anonymous User
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        Re: How to get to L&E biglaw?

        Post by Anonymous User » Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:11 pm

        Anonymous User wrote:
        Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:17 am
        As someone above mentioned, you will need to manage expectations. Unfortunately, I don’t think OP could get a Midlevel position at Morgan Lewis with the experience they have.

        I worked at a firm with a larger L&E department and I had access to many of our offer letters (reason why I’m Anon). We hired people from small firms and Littler/Jackson Lewis, but those people always had to take significant class year cuts. I’m talking 3-4 years. One I remember is a fifth year coming in as a first year.

        Unfortunately, outside of a handful of true biglaw firms, most don’t do PAGA litigation and single plaintiff work. Also, most that don’t have robust litigation departments like Proskauer, Morgan Lewis, etc., don’t even really handle much litigation work. They do a lot of consulting and due diligence work.

        I don’t think it’ll be impossible for OP to move, but OP needs to understand they won’t be making $300k right off the bat. They’ll most likely start as a 2nd or 3rd year. It sucks, but that’s the reality of not having transferable experience.

        As to OP’s other question, I would use a recruiter in your case because there’s a good chance some firms will just throw away your resume when they see your class year. A recruiter will be able to explain to the firm that you’re flexible with class year in a way you wouldn’t really be able to in a cover letter.
        OP here, thanks for the real talk. While I'd hope for the salary for my year, I guess that makes sense. I imagine that EPLI is what drives the rates for L&E to be so low, and biglaw doesn't take those on I assume. You are right about the recruiter since I assume my resume would just be lost in a pile.

        What would you say are the true biglaw L&E firms that pay market? I thinking Sheppard Mullin, Morgan Lewis, Paul Hastings...and which firms do some L&E that I should also consider?

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        Depressed Gooner

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        Re: How to get to L&E biglaw?

        Post by Depressed Gooner » Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:39 pm

        Hey OP!

        I am a second year attorney that just started an a AmLaw 200 (over 1200 attorneys) doing employment law work. My first year+ was not involved in any employment law work at a large firm (100-200 attorneys). I did not have stellar grades or go to a T10 or anything. I did have a lot of law school experience in L&E and I was specifically looking for employment law jobs, thinking there was no way I would get big law interviews. I ended up getting 4 big law interviews for employment law positions and received 2 offers at big law market rate for my experience and geographical location.

        I guess this is a long way of saying, just go out an apply. Find the firms that interest you and apply for positions that are open. You are at a great boutique L&E firm, have significant experience, and would be low risk for a full service law firm. Apply on LinkedIn, Laterally, Indeed, and direct firm pages. I don't think you need a recruiter because a lot of big firms, I think, are trying to cut costs right now. I've noticed a lot of AmLaw100 firms have specifically stated on their website that they are not accepting recruiter inquiries.

        TL;DR: Just go and apply! You are a desirable candidate and will easily be able to do the same work for more money given your background. GOOD LUCK!

        Anonymous User
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        Re: How to get to L&E biglaw?

        Post by Anonymous User » Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:42 pm

        Raiden wrote:
        Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:36 am
        Anonymous User wrote:
        Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:17 am
        As someone above mentioned, you will need to manage expectations. Unfortunately, I don’t think OP could get a Midlevel position at Morgan Lewis with the experience they have.

        I worked at a firm with a larger L&E department and I had access to many of our offer letters (reason why I’m Anon). We hired people from small firms and Littler/Jackson Lewis, but those people always had to take significant class year cuts. I’m talking 3-4 years. One I remember is a fifth year coming in as a first year.

        Unfortunately, outside of a handful of true biglaw firms, most don’t do PAGA litigation and single plaintiff work. Also, most that don’t have robust litigation departments like Proskauer, Morgan Lewis, etc., don’t even really handle much litigation work. They do a lot of consulting and due diligence work.

        I don’t think it’ll be impossible for OP to move, but OP needs to understand they won’t be making $300k right off the bat. They’ll most likely start as a 2nd or 3rd year. It sucks, but that’s the reality of not having transferable experience.

        As to OP’s other question, I would use a recruiter in your case because there’s a good chance some firms will just throw away your resume when they see your class year. A recruiter will be able to explain to the firm that you’re flexible with class year in a way you wouldn’t really be able to in a cover letter.
        Could you PM me?
        I’ll create a throwaway email and add it here later today. Want to maintain anonymity.

        Anonymous User
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        Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

        Re: How to get to L&E biglaw?

        Post by Anonymous User » Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:48 pm

        Anonymous User wrote:
        Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:11 pm
        Anonymous User wrote:
        Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:17 am
        As someone above mentioned, you will need to manage expectations. Unfortunately, I don’t think OP could get a Midlevel position at Morgan Lewis with the experience they have.

        I worked at a firm with a larger L&E department and I had access to many of our offer letters (reason why I’m Anon). We hired people from small firms and Littler/Jackson Lewis, but those people always had to take significant class year cuts. I’m talking 3-4 years. One I remember is a fifth year coming in as a first year.

        Unfortunately, outside of a handful of true biglaw firms, most don’t do PAGA litigation and single plaintiff work. Also, most that don’t have robust litigation departments like Proskauer, Morgan Lewis, etc., don’t even really handle much litigation work. They do a lot of consulting and due diligence work.

        I don’t think it’ll be impossible for OP to move, but OP needs to understand they won’t be making $300k right off the bat. They’ll most likely start as a 2nd or 3rd year. It sucks, but that’s the reality of not having transferable experience.

        As to OP’s other question, I would use a recruiter in your case because there’s a good chance some firms will just throw away your resume when they see your class year. A recruiter will be able to explain to the firm that you’re flexible with class year in a way you wouldn’t really be able to in a cover letter.
        OP here, thanks for the real talk. While I'd hope for the salary for my year, I guess that makes sense. I imagine that EPLI is what drives the rates for L&E to be so low, and biglaw doesn't take those on I assume. You are right about the recruiter since I assume my resume would just be lost in a pile.

        What would you say are the true biglaw L&E firms that pay market? I thinking Sheppard Mullin, Morgan Lewis, Paul Hastings...and which firms do some L&E that I should also consider?
        I think you mentioned PAGA, so I’m assuming you’re in CA. The three you mentioned are considered top L&E shops but not sure about CA.

        Proskauer is another one. Winston & Strawn and Jones Day are also a couple more “market” firms that do extensive L&E.

        There are firms that pay better than L&E boutiques but not quite market that also big have bigger L&E departments - DWT, Dorsey & Whitney, and Akerman come to mind.

        I don’t work directly in L&E, but I do some work in it, so I have a general idea of all of this. However, an L&E associate will have a lot more info.

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        Whatislaw

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        Re: How to get to L&E biglaw?

        Post by Whatislaw » Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:12 pm

        Anonymous User wrote:
        Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:42 pm
        Raiden wrote:
        Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:36 am
        Anonymous User wrote:
        Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:17 am
        As someone above mentioned, you will need to manage expectations. Unfortunately, I don’t think OP could get a Midlevel position at Morgan Lewis with the experience they have.

        I worked at a firm with a larger L&E department and I had access to many of our offer letters (reason why I’m Anon). We hired people from small firms and Littler/Jackson Lewis, but those people always had to take significant class year cuts. I’m talking 3-4 years. One I remember is a fifth year coming in as a first year.

        Unfortunately, outside of a handful of true biglaw firms, most don’t do PAGA litigation and single plaintiff work. Also, most that don’t have robust litigation departments like Proskauer, Morgan Lewis, etc., don’t even really handle much litigation work. They do a lot of consulting and due diligence work.

        I don’t think it’ll be impossible for OP to move, but OP needs to understand they won’t be making $300k right off the bat. They’ll most likely start as a 2nd or 3rd year. It sucks, but that’s the reality of not having transferable experience.

        As to OP’s other question, I would use a recruiter in your case because there’s a good chance some firms will just throw away your resume when they see your class year. A recruiter will be able to explain to the firm that you’re flexible with class year in a way you wouldn’t really be able to in a cover letter.
        Could you PM me?
        I’ll create a throwaway email and add it here later today. Want to maintain anonymity.
        Would you mind PM me as well? I would love to talk to you about your experience and insight if you're willing.

        Anonymous User
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        Re: How to get to L&E biglaw?

        Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:10 pm

        OP here - just to give an update, I was able to secure a position at a close-to-market paying firm. I should be over $300k base next year. Grateful for everyone's insight in assisting me to get to this point. Dreams do come true.

        throwthrowaway

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        Re: How to get to L&E biglaw?

        Post by throwthrowaway » Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:06 pm

        Anonymous User wrote:
        Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:10 pm
        OP here - just to give an update, I was able to secure a position at a close-to-market paying firm. I should be over $300k base next year. Grateful for everyone's insight in assisting me to get to this point. Dreams do come true.
        OP, are you open to PMing me to discuss your experience? I'm currently a junior at an L&E shop but am interested in making the transition eventually.

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        Lacepiece23

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        Re: How to get to L&E biglaw?

        Post by Lacepiece23 » Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:09 pm

        Anonymous User wrote:
        Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:10 pm
        OP here - just to give an update, I was able to secure a position at a close-to-market paying firm. I should be over $300k base next year. Grateful for everyone's insight in assisting me to get to this point. Dreams do come true.
        Same here. Not for me but for someone I’m close to.

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