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Biglaw first year learning curve
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:40 pm
by Anonymous User
Everyday I realize more and more how steep the learning curve is. Sometimes I get edits back and have no idea why certain edits were made. I have a harder time of seeing how my specific assignment fits into the bigger picture. When and how do we learn
Re: Biglaw first year learning curve
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:29 pm
by avenuem
There must be a document repository, where you save all the documents for every case.
If you're in corporate or a similar area, consider looking at any major documents your team helped the company submit on sites like EDGAR, read any significant correspondence your team has had with the client or deal teams, or call the lowest ranking member of the client's c-suite and ask them if they have ten minutes to talk about what's really happening.
If you're in litigation or a similar area, try to do the analogous things. Read correspondence between your firm and the client or opposing counsel, initial letters/emails that explain why the firm was hired, and significant court filings starting with the latest. If still unclear, consider calling a low-ranking employee at the company and asking if they have ten minutes to discuss.
Re: Biglaw first year learning curve
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:38 pm
by Anonymous User
avenuem wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:29 pm
There must be a document repository, where you save all the documents for every case.
If you're in corporate or a similar area, consider looking at any major documents your team helped the company submit on sites like EDGAR, read any significant correspondence your team has had with the client or deal teams, or
call the lowest ranking member of the client's c-suite and ask them if they have ten minutes to talk about what's really happening.
If you're in litigation or a similar area, try to do the analogous things. Read correspondence between your firm and the client or opposing counsel, initial letters/emails that explain why the firm was hired, and significant court filings starting with the latest. If still unclear, consider calling a low-ranking employee at the company and asking if they have ten minutes to discuss.
I'm sorry, what? Do not do the bolded.
Do review other documents your team's put out, and look through checklists (and check the individual docs) to understand why there's a need to do certain things. Everything has a purpose and you should try to understand the different moving parts. Ask questions to your senior if they're not completely overwhelmed with their own work, and feel free to see if they have ten minutes to talk about what's really happening.
But do not contact your client's C-suite.
Re: Biglaw first year learning curve
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:44 pm
by shermfudl
Yikes, yea, definitely do not contact any clients, let alone their C-suites. That's a pretty good way to get fired—not even exaggerating. Also reach out to associates a year or two ahead of you and chat over things you're confused about
Re: Biglaw first year learning curve
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:49 pm
by nixy
Or the litigation equivalent of contacting an employee at the company. Eek.
Re: Biglaw first year learning curve
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:57 pm
by Ultramar vistas
avenuem wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:29 pm
There must be a document repository, where you save all the documents for every case.
If you're in corporate or a similar area, consider looking at any major documents your team helped the company submit on sites like EDGAR, read any significant correspondence your team has had with the client or deal teams, or
call the lowest ranking member of the client's c-suite and ask them if they have ten minutes to talk about what's really happening.
If you're in litigation or a similar area, try to do the analogous things. Read correspondence between your firm and the client or opposing counsel, initial letters/emails that explain why the firm was hired, and significant court filings starting with the latest.
If still unclear, consider calling a low-ranking employee at the company and asking if they have ten minutes to discuss.
Are you literally trying to get associates fired?
Re: Biglaw first year learning curve
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:01 pm
by Anonymous User
avenuem wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:29 pm
call the lowest ranking member of the client's c-suite and ask them if they have ten minutes to talk about what's really happening.
If still unclear, consider calling a low-ranking employee at the company and asking if they have ten minutes to discuss.
LMAO
if you need to talk to someone about this, you politely ask your midlevel/immediate supervising attorney on whatever the matter or assignment is. unless the matter is going crazy fast where they just don't have time or they're a dick, people are usually pretty receptive to helping stubs/1st years with legitimate questions like this ime.
do not (like fucking ever) cold call a client team member over some shit like this
Re: Biglaw first year learning curve
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:43 pm
by blair.waldorf
Absolutely do NOT cold call your client or their c suite.
Just ask a midlevel or senior if they have 10-15 minutes to discuss the project/deal with you and answer your questions.
Re: Biglaw first year learning curve
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:23 pm
by blair.waldorf
I just really want to emphasize how important it is that you do not contact clients, let alone their c suites. Please do not do this, ever.
Re: Biglaw first year learning curve
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:02 am
by Monochromatic Oeuvre
Calling the lowest-ranking member of the C-suite is a terrible idea. Really, you need to be aiming higher--talking to the lowest-ranking member gives you the lowest-ranking habits and you wind up as the lowest-ranking associate. I watched a junior on the DCI deal call the main line at Blackstone with a confidence beyond his years and go "Get me Steve" and lo and behold, they put him right through to Schwarzman, who had ten minutes to talk about what was really happening with the deal. Kid just powered right through on the docs, and once he started fixing a few minor nits on the chain, Josh Bonnie said he's "got it from here" and turned his phone off for a week in Antigua. No one's really sure what's going on but apparently the partnership committee has an emergency meeting next week. Rumor has it he fucked Rachel Zane in the file room too.
Re: Biglaw first year learning curve
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:33 am
by purplegoldtornado
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:02 am
Calling the lowest-ranking member of the C-suite is a terrible idea. Really, you need to be aiming higher--talking to the lowest-ranking member gives you the lowest-ranking habits and you wind up as the lowest-ranking associate. I watched a junior on the DCI deal call the main line at Blackstone with a confidence beyond his years and go "Get me Steve" and lo and behold, they put him right through to Schwarzman, who had ten minutes to talk about what was really happening with the deal. Kid just powered right through on the docs, and once he started fixing a few minor nits on the chain, Josh Bonnie said he's "got it from here" and turned his phone off for a week in Antigua. No one's really sure what's going on but apparently the partnership committee has an emergency meeting next week. Rumor has it he fucked Rachel Zane in the file room too.
How is this website free?
Re: Biglaw first year learning curve
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:51 am
by beepboopbeep
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:02 am
Calling the lowest-ranking member of the C-suite is a terrible idea. Really, you need to be aiming higher--talking to the lowest-ranking member gives you the lowest-ranking habits and you wind up as the lowest-ranking associate. I watched a junior on the DCI deal call the main line at Blackstone with a confidence beyond his years and go "Get me Steve" and lo and behold, they put him right through to Schwarzman, who had ten minutes to talk about what was really happening with the deal. Kid just powered right through on the docs, and once he started fixing a few minor nits on the chain, Josh Bonnie said he's "got it from here" and turned his phone off for a week in Antigua. No one's really sure what's going on but apparently the partnership committee has an emergency meeting next week. Rumor has it he fucked Rachel Zane in the file room too.
Every once in a while, this site is still good.
Re: Biglaw first year learning curve
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:50 pm
by daedalus2309
avenuem wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:29 pm
Lorem ipsum
You dropped this, King:
.
To OP: Especially frustrating is that some changes are just the way things are done at your firm, or the client/partner/senior’s preference, and not really attributable to a right-or-wrong dichotomy. Some things are hard and fast rules, and some things are random, and some things depend on the situation and larger context of the matter. Not your fault, it happens, and IME this is normal for a first year. Comments will get clearer over time.
When things settle down, ask a mid level to discuss, maybe put together a list of a handful of things you don’t understand.
Re: Biglaw first year learning curve
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:56 pm
by Excellent117
If you're on the corporate side and have access to Practical Law, I'd recommend searching for the document you're working on to find their "form" version. For each form document, you'll be able to open up all of the collapsible practice notes that can help to orient that document's role within the broader transaction and provide you with insights on the importance/relevance of certain provisions.
Also, I wouldn't hesitate to reach out to a mid-level associate in your group to ask if they might have some time to walk you through some of the things you're working on at a high level. It might not be immediate, but I think you'll find most (if not all) of them will be willing to make some time to do so.
Re: Biglaw first year learning curve
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:15 pm
by dyemond
honestly avenuem is one of the only good remaining flames on this site.
he is a stub at a v5 who just finished up his stub, but spent most of it doing doc review, yet "received honors" and a "fast track" to partnership.
Re: Biglaw first year learning curve
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:25 pm
by avenuem
dyemond wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:15 pm
honestly avenuem is one of the only good remaining flames on this site.
he is a stub at a v5 who just finished up his stub, but spent most of it doing doc review, yet "received honors" and a "fast track" to partnership.
Not sure if you're being sarcastic, but I will be a partner.
daedalus2309 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:50 pm
avenuem wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:29 pm
Lorem ipsum
You dropped this, King:
.
Thank you for not being so jealous you disregard my good advice.
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:02 am
Calling the lowest-ranking member of the C-suite is a terrible idea. Really, you need to be aiming higher--talking to the lowest-ranking member gives you the lowest-ranking habits and you wind up as the lowest-ranking associate. I watched a junior on the DCI deal call the main line at Blackstone with a confidence beyond his years and go "Get me Steve" and lo and behold, they put him right through to Schwarzman, who had ten minutes to talk about what was really happening with the deal. Kid just powered right through on the docs, and once he started fixing a few minor nits on the chain, Josh Bonnie said he's "got it from here" and turned his phone off for a week in Antigua. No one's really sure what's going on but apparently the partnership committee has an emergency meeting next week. Rumor has it he fucked Rachel Zane in the file room too.
This is the only fair counter to my post, and I agree it's the best approach for rockstar associates. I just didn't think OP had the guts to go any higher, so I didn't mention it.
Re: Biglaw first year learning curve
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:34 pm
by cavalier1138
As much fun as it is to try and destroy people's careers, let's try and act like new attorneys might follow some of the advice given on this site.
Re: Biglaw first year learning curve
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:26 pm
by showusyourtorts
TLS should consider bringing avenuem onto its payroll. That post drove more engagement than Megan's seven most recent threads combined.
.