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Seeing lots of people here saying NY classes are full and I assume that'd probably be a nightmare for any school that started OCI after Monday, Jan 18. Any substance to those claims? Is the best hope in doing a NY callback at this point being put on hold? I take everything here with a grain of salt, but how regularly people mention this and lots of Feb. 1 deadlines being gone has to be worrying a lot of people who had just done or have upcoming CBs...

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 02, 2021 6:21 pm

Seeing lots of people here saying NY classes are full and I assume that'd probably be a nightmare for any school that started OCI after Monday, Jan 18. Any substance to those claims? Is the best hope in doing a NY callback at this point being put on hold? I take everything here with a grain of salt, but how regularly people mention this and lots of Feb. 1 deadlines being gone has to be worrying a lot of people who had just done or have upcoming CBs...

Yeah I know for a fact that several V20 classes are more or less full. At this point, future offers will be heavily driven by people turning down open offers.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 02, 2021 6:30 pm

Yeah I know for a fact that several V20 classes are more or less full. At this point, future offers will be heavily driven by people turning down open offers.

Assume you're a firm or careers office insider?

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 02, 2021 6:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 02, 2021 6:21 pm

Seeing lots of people here saying NY classes are full and I assume that'd probably be a nightmare for any school that started OCI after Monday, Jan 18. Any substance to those claims? Is the best hope in doing a NY callback at this point being put on hold? I take everything here with a grain of salt, but how regularly people mention this and lots of Feb. 1 deadlines being gone has to be worrying a lot of people who had just done or have upcoming CBs...

Yeah I know for a fact that several V20 classes are more or less full. At this point, future offers will be heavily driven by people turning down open offers.

Could you disclose which V20 firms are more or less full? Asked for extra OCI interview slot with a V20 firm, and they got back to me today and invited me to apply online...

Lesson for all 1L s and future students: don't listen to career services when they tell you to wait until winter interview season to apply to firms...

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 02, 2021 6:57 pm

Lesson for all 1L s and future students: don't listen to career services when they tell you to wait until winter interview season to apply to firms...

Yeah if career services actually followed through on firms/students in violation of policies, things would be different. But they won't do anything.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 02, 2021 6:57 pm

Lesson for all 1L s and future students: don't listen to career services when they tell you to wait until winter interview season to apply to firms...

HUGE co-sign - could not be more infuriated with my career services office. They actively discouraged people from applying during winter break

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 02, 2021 6:57 pm

Lesson for all 1L s and future students: don't listen to career services when they tell you to wait until winter interview season to apply to firms...

I am still shocked so many people were taken off guard by this. Not a single 2L or 3L I talked to advised me to listen to the career center and not do Pre-OCI. That being said, I think its effect is being overstated - I applied to a ton of firms early, and got ignored or told to go through OCI 9/10 times.

So did it help? Absolutely, but if you didn't already have connections or top grades I don't think it would have mattered too much.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 02, 2021 6:57 pm

Lesson for all 1L s and future students: don't listen to career services when they tell you to wait until winter interview season to apply to firms...

I am still shocked so many people were taken off guard by this. Not a single 2L or 3L I talked to advised me to listen to the career center and not do Pre-OCI. That being said, I think its effect is being overstated - I applied to a ton of firms early, and got ignored or told to go through OCI 9/10 times.

So did it help? Absolutely, but if you didn't already have connections or top grades I don't think it would have mattered too much.

But what has to be considered is the reward. It costs $0 and zero cents to take a half hour out of your day each day and send out a few apps. In turn, you could land a big law job.

purplegoldtornado wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 02, 2021 6:57 pm

Lesson for all 1L s and future students: don't listen to career services when they tell you to wait until winter interview season to apply to firms...

I am still shocked so many people were taken off guard by this. Not a single 2L or 3L I talked to advised me to listen to the career center and not do Pre-OCI. That being said, I think its effect is being overstated - I applied to a ton of firms early, and got ignored or told to go through OCI 9/10 times.

So did it help? Absolutely, but if you didn't already have connections or top grades I don't think it would have mattered too much.

But what has to be considered is the reward. It costs $0 and zero cents to take a half hour out of your day each day and send out a few apps. In turn, you could land a big law job.

I'm not disagreeing. Absolutely do Pre-OCI. But the difficulties people have had in obtaining a job are more due to class size cuts.

I suspect that many of the NY firms' classes are full or very close to full. This has been a dumpster fire of a cycle. OCI at my T14 has been tough on almost everyone.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:14 pm

I suspect that many of the NY firms' classes are full or very close to full. This has been a dumpster fire of a cycle. OCI at my T14 has been tough on almost everyone.

V5 lit partner who gave me offer said it was more selective year in a long time and class will be smaller.

purplegoldtornado wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:03 pm

But what has to be considered is the reward. It costs $0 and zero cents to take a half hour out of your day each day and send out a few apps. In turn, you could land a big law job.

Against the reward is the purported risk of being boxed out of OCI, which my OCS stated it would do to students who applied early to OCI firms. Regardless of whether OCS would follow through on that threat, I do not think a system that essentially forces students to act as if their schools are lying is a fair one to those not in the know.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:54 pm

purplegoldtornado wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:03 pm

But what has to be considered is the reward. It costs $0 and zero cents to take a half hour out of your day each day and send out a few apps. In turn, you could land a big law job.

Against the reward is the purported risk of being boxed out of OCI, which my OCS stated it would do to students who applied early to OCI firms. Regardless of whether OCS would follow through on that threat, I do not think a system that essentially forces students to act as if their schools are lying is a fair one to those not in the know.

Ya this is entirely the problem. You can say people who didn't do pre-OCI are naive or whatever but the fact is so many school career offices explicitly say they will enforce this OCI policy. It puts students in a totally unfair position. Not to mention the offices do this while then misreading markets.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:54 pm

purplegoldtornado wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:03 pm

But what has to be considered is the reward. It costs $0 and zero cents to take a half hour out of your day each day and send out a few apps. In turn, you could land a big law job.

Against the reward is the purported risk of being boxed out of OCI, which my OCS stated it would do to students who applied early to OCI firms. Regardless of whether OCS would follow through on that threat, I do not think a system that essentially forces students to act as if their schools are lying is a fair one to those not in the know.

This threat is obviously empty and counterproductive.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:54 pm

purplegoldtornado wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:03 pm

But what has to be considered is the reward. It costs $0 and zero cents to take a half hour out of your day each day and send out a few apps. In turn, you could land a big law job.

Against the reward is the purported risk of being boxed out of OCI, which my OCS stated it would do to students who applied early to OCI firms. Regardless of whether OCS would follow through on that threat, I do not think a system that essentially forces students to act as if their schools are lying is a fair one to those not in the know.

Ya this is entirely the problem. You can say people who didn't do pre-OCI are naive or whatever but the fact is so many school career offices explicitly say they will enforce this OCI policy. It puts students in a totally unfair position. Not to mention the offices do this while then misreading markets.

Asking 2Ls, 3Ls, and alums would have told you if this threat was credible or not. A girl at my school tagged our OCS dean in her post celebrating her pre-OCI offer. No one should take it seriously.

classes are not full -- i don't think I would have 11 callbacks from my screeners last week, if classes were full.

Everyone who is saying classes are full need to at least preface their statements with some sort of authority, such as "I am a hiring partner," "I am a recruiter," etc.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:00 pm

Asking 2Ls, 3Ls, and alums would have told you if this threat was credible or not. A girl at my school tagged our OCS dean in her post celebrating her pre-OCI offer. No one should take it seriously.

No one should assume that a school's administration will outright lie to them, either. And especially in a remote environment, relying on upperclass advice may not be so easy, especially if people are not used to networking or have never been in a business/corporate/white-collar environment.

This is not sour grapes--I did not do pre-OCI and am swimming in amazing offers. But I find the argument that students should simply know--or find out--that the policy is toothless (always, rather than just selectively, which is still a potential risk) to be almost unfathomably callous and baseless when the alternative is that the administration simply...tells the truth.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:54 pm

purplegoldtornado wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:03 pm

But what has to be considered is the reward. It costs $0 and zero cents to take a half hour out of your day each day and send out a few apps. In turn, you could land a big law job.

Against the reward is the purported risk of being boxed out of OCI, which my OCS stated it would do to students who applied early to OCI firms. Regardless of whether OCS would follow through on that threat, I do not think a system that essentially forces students to act as if their schools are lying is a fair one to those not in the know.

Ya this is entirely the problem. You can say people who didn't do pre-OCI are naive or whatever but the fact is so many school career offices explicitly say they will enforce this OCI policy. It puts students in a totally unfair position. Not to mention the offices do this while then misreading markets.

That's my bad then. I come from a school where OCI is really not that important, so there are no penalties for this. But wow, what a stupid rule.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:07 pm

Everyone who is saying classes are full need to at least preface their statements with some sort of authority, such as "I am a hiring partner," "I am a recruiter," etc.

Alright, I'll say it. I'm involved with recruiting efforts at my V10 firm (not officially on the committee but do tons of interviews and meet with the committee regularly). Our 2021 summer class is pretty much full. There are a few schools who, VERY foolishly, did not schedule OCI until this week or even next week, and my heart goes out to any of those students who haven't already secured a callback via pre-OCI efforts.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:41 pm

Alright, I'll say it. I'm involved with recruiting efforts at my V10 firm (not officially on the committee but do tons of interviews and meet with the committee regularly). Our 2021 summer class is pretty much full. There are a few schools who, VERY foolishly, did not schedule OCI until this week or even next week, and my heart goes out to any of those students who haven't already secured a callback via pre-OCI efforts.

Not OP, but thanks for the insight. To the extent you know, can you give a sense of how much was filled via pre-OCI and maybe how yield was on the early OCI offers?

My firm still has room and I interviewed a callback candidate today.

I received an offer today from a V15 firm so they're not completely done.

I think pre OCI encapsulates the tension between idealistic rule following and pragmatic shortcuts. This shows up throughout law school.

Sure, the “correct” way to study law is to brief every case, take careful notes, build a comprehensive outline, etc. That will work for some students, but a lot of other students would be better off reading Quimbee, borrowing outlines, cramming, and focusing disproportionately more on gaming the exam vs. learning the law.

Similarly, OCI is the “correct” way to do biglaw recruiting. But a fair number of students would be better served ignoring the rules and playing the pre OCI game.