Top Law Schools

Simpson Thacher

• modified lockstep + non-equity partners (negative impact re competitiveness)

• stronger + more diverse corporate practice groups

• NYC focused but has country-wide and global prestige/recognition

• old mahogany office

Debevoise

• 100% lockstep + only equity partners (entirely collaborative)

• potentially better culture but lack of transparency around partner track

• NYC focused

• brand new Hudson Yards office

Both well-positioned, stable NYC firms with varied client base. Both have solid exit-opportunities and promote to partner from within. Similar 2 rotations within corporate, similar revenue per lawyer, and similar associate to partner ratios (with STB coming out slightly ahead on all). Neither has a billable hours requirement and they both paid market + COVID bonus to everyone. Am I wrong about any of this? What else should I be considering? Which would you choose?

Both firms are elite, prestigious, do similar work, work with similar clients, etc. They each have their relative strengths, but both are very well rounded. I'd go with whichever you liked the most culture wise. Congrats on great options!

Simpson is adding a new office in Europe if that matters. Debevoise has more international office presence.

Can anyone explain the modified lockstep? Does that explain why there are so many young partners at Simpson compared to peer law firms?

Stop focusing on partnership prospects. You're not going to make equity partner. If you're the type of human who is going to make equity partner at either one of those firms, then you're going to make equity partner at the other. There are so many young partners at many firms now because non-equity partners have come to replace counsel titles most places, and up or out is dead as equity partners realize they can leverage the shit out of a whole underclass of non-equity partners who will be happy to make $500k while fattening the pockets of equity partners by 2x that from their labors.

The reason for the young partners at STB now is that they've brought in income partners - and not modified lockstep (which they've had for a while, but it looked more like Paul Weiss's modified lockstep than K&E/Latham's until 2018 or so).

It's unclear who is and isn't an income partner. One common use is to keep specialists (which at Simpson often includes litigation) around and happy with a title even without equity/votes/full pensions. It's also not a bad gig for someone in a foreign office where recoveries don't compare to the US, but who bring in enough work and supervise enough people and clients to deserve the title.

Sackboy wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:35 pm

Stop focusing on partnership prospects. You're not going to make equity partner. If you're the type of human who is going to make equity partner at either one of those firms, then you're going to make equity partner at the other. There are so many young partners at many firms now because non-equity partners have come to replace counsel titles most places, and up or out is dead as equity partners realize they can leverage the shit out of a whole underclass of non-equity partners who will be happy to make $500k while fattening the pockets of equity partners by 2x that from their labors.

Merely asking a question about X does not imply focusing on X. You could have been constructive without adding the first lines. Typical immature TLS'er...

I see an unusual number of French speakers at Debevoise. Does anyone have anything to share about this?

Black_Swan wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 03, 2021 5:33 am

I see an unusual number of French speakers at Debevoise. Does anyone have anything to share about this?

There's a Paris office some people go back and forth to a bit. French is also a big language for arbitration, which Debevoise does a lot of.

I worked at Debevoise and have a close friend who worked at STB. I thought Debevoise was great and he (and according to him, his fellow associates) think STB is a terrible, inhumane place. Debevoise culture is real.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 03, 2021 11:36 am

I worked at Debevoise and have a close friend who worked at STB. I thought Debevoise was great and he (and according to him, his fellow associates) think STB is a terrible, inhumane place. Debevoise culture is real.

Interesting, because I asked a similar question a little while ago and had people saying that Debevoise has a terrible culture.

What practice group were each of you in? I think that makes a difference.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 03, 2021 11:36 am

I worked at Debevoise and have a close friend who worked at STB. I thought Debevoise was great and he (and according to him, his fellow associates) think STB is a terrible, inhumane place. Debevoise culture is real.

Why did you leave Debevoise?

Anon-non-anon wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 03, 2021 11:04 am

Black_Swan wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 03, 2021 5:33 am

I see an unusual number of French speakers at Debevoise. Does anyone have anything to share about this?

There's a Paris office some people go back and forth to a bit. French is also a big language for arbitration, which Debevoise does a lot of.

Thanks! What about French speakers in the corporate group? What are they working on? or is just a coincidence that there are so many. ie moved in for litigation and decided they liked transactions more.

Black_Swan wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 03, 2021 1:49 pm

Anon-non-anon wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 03, 2021 11:04 am

Black_Swan wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 03, 2021 5:33 am

I see an unusual number of French speakers at Debevoise. Does anyone have anything to share about this?

There's a Paris office some people go back and forth to a bit. French is also a big language for arbitration, which Debevoise does a lot of.

Thanks! What about French speakers in the corporate group? What are they working on? or is just a coincidence that there are so many. ie moved in for litigation and decided they liked transactions more.

I'm guessing it's some combo that the Paris office does transactional work (just a guess) and the general international feel at debevoise. I was in lit there so not so sure on corporate side, but there were a lot of foreigners generally. And French is a pretty common language to know for them.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 03, 2021 5:29 am

Sackboy wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:35 pm

Stop focusing on partnership prospects. You're not going to make equity partner. If you're the type of human who is going to make equity partner at either one of those firms, then you're going to make equity partner at the other. There are so many young partners at many firms now because non-equity partners have come to replace counsel titles most places, and up or out is dead as equity partners realize they can leverage the shit out of a whole underclass of non-equity partners who will be happy to make $500k while fattening the pockets of equity partners by 2x that from their labors.

Merely asking a question about X does not imply focusing on X. You could have been constructive without adding the first lines. Typical immature TLS'er...

By asking the question, you are considering it. It's not worth consideration. Hope that helps.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 03, 2021 11:36 am

I worked at Debevoise and have a close friend who worked at STB. I thought Debevoise was great and he (and according to him, his fellow associates) think STB is a terrible, inhumane place. Debevoise culture is real.

Interesting, because I asked a similar question a little while ago and had people saying that Debevoise has a terrible culture.

What practice group were each of you in? I think that makes a difference.

Would really appreciate hearing more on the inhumane STB atmosphere. Specifically practice area, how recently? And which practice area you were in at Deb?

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:02 pm

Interesting, because I asked a similar question a little while ago and had people saying that Debevoise has a terrible culture.

What practice group were each of you in? I think that makes a difference.

Ive seen so much polarity regarding Debevoise culture on this firm, from far and away the best culture of top NYC firms to a toxic sweatshop. There must be huge variation among practice groups there.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:02 pm

Interesting, because I asked a similar question a little while ago and had people saying that Debevoise has a terrible culture.

What practice group were each of you in? I think that makes a difference.

Ive seen so much polarity regarding Debevoise culture on this firm, from far and away the best culture of top NYC firms to a toxic sweatshop. There must be huge variation among practice groups there.

I would say the culture at Debevoise is cordial but not very social. Since the firm is one of the few that is still completely lockstep for partners, it definitely attracts a certain type of attorney (less entrepreneurial, more academic). That impacts the culture a lot. It’s definitely not an unpleasant place to work though.

Source: current associate

does anyone have any other insight into what the cultures are like, especially in the transactional groups?

The votes say go with Simpson but the comments say Debevoise