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I'm a first year at a v10 in a big practice group at a firm known for being an intense place so maybe I shouldn't be surprised by this, but a lot of my co-workers are kind of toxic. However, it's not the partners, seniors, or mid-level associates that are stressing me out (yet at least....). It's the other junior associates who have been toxic. A list of the things that have happened that I can think of off the top of my head:

(a) an associate has lied to me about a deadline and messaged me off chain to get me to do a project that took my entire weekend several times, without any notice or expectation that I was going to work that day, and when the partner did not ask for weekend work to be done. This same associate has also asked me to do some sketchy shit like save stuff locally and then send to the associate so they can review it before putting it on our server, which feels like they aren't supposed to be having me do their work or something.

(b) second and third years regularly drop work on my lap without asking if I have the availability to take it on, and with little to no instruction on how to do the task, so I end up spending hours doing simple shit often because I don't know where a button is or something like that. Whenever I ask for help, my questions are either unanswered or I am told to look it up/figure it out on my own. Whenever I ask for deadlines, I am always told ASAP. I have pushed back, but this doesn't always work. For example, if I say I am doing work for someone else or for another team, they will go ahead and message the other person or team so I can work on their project instead, even when it's not high priority and they themselves could be doing the work. It feels extremely violating.

(c) people in my year often don't answer my work related emails for days at a time, when I know they are online and are answering other people, which can make it impossible at times to do my job.

(d) this may seem small and dumb, but I almost never receive a good job on an assignment, and my assignments are attacked for the smallest mistakes. We aren't talking about typos or bad citations, it's usually for not knowing things I have no reason to know of at this point in my career. I know my work is good, the partner has said so and the other team I'm on constantly says I am doing good work.

(e) I am not kept in the loop/not invited to things like phone calls (yet my other team does).

Does anyone have tips on how to handle these kinds of interactions? I have given the benefit of the doubt for quite some time, but after getting exposed to other people, I realize that this is not my issue but just what kind of people they happen to be.

Similar situation, except it’s the partner. Lateraling is all you can do.

2L deciding between some v10 offers. Can you pm to reveal which firm? Or narrow it down publicly? I know this same shit probably is everywhere but your situation sounds particularly bad

Sorry that I have no advice to offer

You shouldn't take assignments from juniors and midlevels that are terrible to work for. Say you're too busy, be firm if they push back, and they'll eventually find someone else. You only need to worry about what the partners and (some) senior associates think of you.

Also, don't worry about criticism. As long as people continue to give you work, you're doing an acceptable job.

I know you haven't seen it yet, but in my experience heat from another junior or midlevel tends to mean they're getting heat from above. My worst experience with a midlevel was because they were just getting lit up and micromanaged by the rainmaker over and over, so as frustrating as it was, looking back, I don't really blame them or hold a grudge because their life sucked, too. Everything rains down from those in charge. It just doesn't follow that juniors would collectively be so toxic (likely motivated by terror or stress) despite wonderful seniors and partners otherwise. One awful person would make sense, but multiple makes me think it's a group issue.

I would try to survive it until you can find a lateral opportunity and don't take anything personally since it's not anything you did on your end. It's just an abjectly toxic situation. From a V10 in a big practice group you should have options, even as a first year.

hdr wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:56 pm

You shouldn't take assignments from juniors and midlevels that are terrible to work for.

This, especially for juniors. Who do they think they are? Also curious which V10 could be this bad. Kirkland has the eat what you kill culture and Latham has a vicious history (mass firings), but Latham hasn't been as awful lately. Simpson did cancel its entire summer class, so wouldn't rule them out.

avenuem wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:33 pm

hdr wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:56 pm

You shouldn't take assignments from juniors and midlevels that are terrible to work for.

This, especially for juniors. Who do they think they are? Also curious which V10 could be this bad. Kirkland has the eat what you kill culture and Latham has a vicious history (mass firings), but Latham hasn't been as awful lately. Simpson did cancel its entire summer class, so wouldn't rule them out.

Or maybe it's Cravath? OP did mention the "intense" reputation. Anon because incoming associate.

Could be any of the V10. They're all the same, except the one that pays you considerably more.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:07 pm

avenuem wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:33 pm

hdr wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:56 pm

You shouldn't take assignments from juniors and midlevels that are terrible to work for.

This, especially for juniors. Who do they think they are? Also curious which V10 could be this bad. Kirkland has the eat what you kill culture and Latham has a vicious history (mass firings), but Latham hasn't been as awful lately. Simpson did cancel its entire summer class, so wouldn't rule them out.

Or maybe it's Cravath? OP did mention the "intense" reputation. Anon because incoming associate.

Anon because I'm at Cravath.

We're asked to do insane amounts of work which mostly accounts for our reputation, but that's a very different story from the apparent underhandedness and cutthroat behavior OP portrays. Long hours at Cravath and being a sweatshot does not mean awful colleagues. But obviously I can only speak for my own experience and others who share their experiences. I'm not aware of anyone who has experienced what OP describes.

Do you work at Kirkland with uChicago graduates?

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:59 pm

I know you haven't seen it yet, but in my experience heat from another junior or midlevel tends to mean they're getting heat from above. My worst experience with a midlevel was because they were just getting lit up and micromanaged by the rainmaker over and over, so as frustrating as it was, looking back, I don't really blame them or hold a grudge because their life sucked, too. Everything rains down from those in charge. It just doesn't follow that juniors would collectively be so toxic (likely motivated by terror or stress) despite wonderful seniors and partners otherwise. One awful person would make sense, but multiple makes me think it's a group issue.

I would try to survive it until you can find a lateral opportunity and don't take anything personally since it's not anything you did on your end. It's just an abjectly toxic situation. From a V10 in a big practice group you should have options, even as a first year.

^This is probably more accurate than this:

hdr wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:56 pm

ou shouldn't take assignments from juniors and midlevels that are terrible to work for. Say you're too busy, be firm if they push back, and they'll eventually find someone else. You only need to worry about what the partners and (some) senior associates think of you.

Also, don't worry about criticism. As long as people continue to give you work, y

Maybe I'm biased as a senior/mid-level and just dealing with juniors who won't cooperate on the most basic functions of the job, though I agree you have way more latitude to push back with people of your class year and or closer to it than people further above you or if you are actually much busier than the person who's assigning the work.

Partners will ask others, including seniors and mid-levels they trust, how someone is to work with.

In OP's case, however, they should just lateral. This is a cultural issue at OP's firm.

Hey this is the OP again. Things have gotten worse and my mental health is slipping, I'm not sure who I can talk to about this so here I am again.

Anytime I push back against the other juniors, they push back even harder (e.g. messaging the other team/associate I am doing work for, lying about its priority, etc.). This is even more frustrating since the firm is supposedly free market, and I was told I would choose who I worked for!

In addition, I am given such little detail and instruction, it's crazy having to learn all these computer programs and nuances of the firm on my own, let alone try to do the actual legal work. I typically only bill 7-9 hours (but of course I have had plenty of 12+ hour days), but I have no idea at any point when I will work - every minute of every day is a complete and utter surprise to me, work can come in at LITERALLY any moment. When I'm not working, I'm too anxious and depressed to take care of myself, plus it's impossible to plan my day to get things like chores or working out.

Is really my only solution to leave? I haven't talked to the partner yet, but I feel like they probably won't care/will be annoyed I'm even bringing this up. I feel like no one cares at all about my perspective or how I feel. But I know this is not normal - the other two teams I worked with were great and I felt like an integrated and respected member of the team, not a pledge or office slave.

Sorry to hear this update, OP. Do you have an associate mentor or another mid-level/senior associate you trust, maybe someone from one of the other teams you worked on? Someone like that could give you better advice than us about how to navigate your office politics. Regardless of whether you ultimately lateral or stay at your firm and get off this team -- in the meantime, try not to internalize other people's toxic behavior. It is not a reflection on you or your work product (and you are more than your work product!), but a reflection on them. Finding a way to emotionally detach from this situation will go a long way towards improving your mental health (and if you need perspective, don't be afraid to try therapy).

Don't quit. If your attempts at pushing back aren't successful then I'd recommend you stop working as hard. When working for the associates you dislike, let the fake and unimportant deadlines slip, spend only one hour instead of three hours on projects, take a long time before responding to email after 5pm and on weekends, etc. Eventually they'll find someone else. I guarantee there are plenty of slackers in your class who are working half as much and getting paid the exact same.

Re time entry, billing 7-9 hours on weekdays isn't enough to justify turning down work. Make sure you're not underestimating your time and cutting yourself short. If you have to learn a program as part of your work for a client you should bill for it.

hdr wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:52 pm

Re time entry, billing 7-9 hours on weekdays isn't enough to justify turning down work.

I'm sure you're right, but god I hate that this is the standard.