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Hi there,

Just got first semester grades back at Columbia/NYU and ended up with a 3.4-3.5. Pretty much exclusively interested in M&A work in NYC. Assuming my second semester performance will stay roughly the same (not expecting a drastic upwards trend), do I have a shot at the likes of Cravath, Davis Polk, S&C, Debevoise, Simpson? Just to reiterate, no interest in DC or California offices, which I’ve heard can be more competitive. Would appreciate any guidelines on grade “cutoffs” for these firms, even if you only have rough, anecdotal data! Thanks in advance!

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:07 pm

Hi there,

Just got first semester grades back at Columbia/NYU and ended up with a 3.4-3.5. Pretty much exclusively interested in M&A work in NYC. Assuming my second semester performance will stay roughly the same (not expecting a drastic upwards trend), do I have a shot at the likes of Cravath, Davis Polk, S&C, Debevoise, Simpson? Just to reiterate, no interest in DC or California offices, which I’ve heard can be more competitive. Would appreciate any guidelines on grade “cutoffs” for these firms, even if you only have rough, anecdotal data! Thanks in advance!

From my experience, and from what NYU told us as students, these tend to have a 3.6 cutoff - but they do make exceptions for otherwise strong candidates. For what it's worth, I had somewhere between a 3.4-3.5 and did not get any callbacks at these firms (had screeners with 4 out of the 5 you listed).

If you're at CLS and Stone, you have competitive grades at CSM, DPW, STB, and Deb. S&C allegedly had a slightly higher grade cutoff (3.5, I think?) when I was there but no idea if that still holds. No intel on NYU.

General rule is that Stone has you competitive for every NYC corporate shop except WLRK.

I only have insight into CLS, but if you're there, yes, you have a shot and should bid all of them.

DPW, STB, and Deb. have always considered the low Stone range to be in play. Don't be psyched out about what you hear about CSM. Their selectivity has gone down the tubes. They went from 95%+ honors offers traditionally to like ~75% last year (I don't remember exactly, but saw the EIP report briefly). Their corporate practice is not what it used to be relative to the competition so maybe they've had to adjust their standards. S&C is more selective but worth a shot.

Throw K&E and Skadden into that pool. There's no reason to consider Deb., which isn't a Band 1 practice, but not K&E, which is. It's the same with Skadden.

BrainsyK wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:51 pm

I only have insight into CLS, but if you're there, yes, you have a shot and should bid all of them.

DPW, STB, and Deb. have always considered the low Stone range to be in play. Don't be psyched out about what you hear about CSM. Their selectivity has gone down the tubes. They went from 95%+ honors offers traditionally to like ~75% last year (I don't remember exactly, but saw the EIP report briefly). Their corporate practice is not what it used to be relative to the competition so maybe they've had to adjust their standards. S&C is more selective but worth a shot.

Throw K&E and Skadden into that pool. There's no reason to consider Deb., which isn't a Band 1 practice, but not K&E, which is. It's the same with Skadden.

Cravath’s selectivity has also declined a lot at Chicago and it has serious yield problems

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:01 pm

BrainsyK wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:51 pm

[...] Don't be psyched out about what you hear about CSM. Their selectivity has gone down the tubes. They went from 95%+ honors offers traditionally to like ~75% last year (I don't remember exactly, but saw the EIP report briefly). Their corporate practice is not what it used to be relative to the competition so maybe they've had to adjust their standards. S&C is more selective but worth a shot. [...]

Cravath’s selectivity has also declined a lot at Chicago and it has serious yield problems

Another CLS anon here. My guess is that it's quite common for students to choose among all these firms, but especially common to choose between Cravath and S&C. It's interesting: CSM has significantly better yield at CLS than does S&C and I think has an extra sheen of prestige in people's eyes, but my understanding is that it's reversed at other schools. For example, I've heard that YLS historically sends a bunch more to S&C than to CSM.

Yield correlates imperfectly with selectivity and "desirability". For example, DPW has a rep among students that's universally very good but it has a middling yield. Deb and Latham have higher yields than DPW. It's obviously all affected by the other opportunities that are open to that firm's typical offeree.

To the OP's question, you should receive data on grade selectivity from your OCS as you get closer to EIP.

soft blue wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:48 pm

If you're at CLS and Stone, you have competitive grades at CSM, DPW, STB, and Deb. S&C allegedly had a slightly higher grade cutoff (3.5, I think?) when I was there but no idea if that still holds. No intel on NYU.

General rule is that Stone has you competitive for every NYC corporate shop except WLRK.

OP here. Thanks for this! So, for CLS, I guess the benchmarks would be:

3.41 (Stone, I think?): CSM, DPW, STB, Debevoise
3.5: S&C
3.7 or 3.8 (?): WLRK (obviously a pipe dream lol, but just curious)

BrainsyK wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:51 pm

I only have insight into CLS, but if you're there, yes, you have a shot and should bid all of them.

DPW, STB, and Deb. have always considered the low Stone range to be in play. Don't be psyched out about what you hear about CSM. Their selectivity has gone down the tubes. They went from 95%+ honors offers traditionally to like ~75% last year (I don't remember exactly, but saw the EIP report briefly). Their corporate practice is not what it used to be relative to the competition so maybe they've had to adjust their standards. S&C is more selective but worth a shot.

Throw K&E and Skadden into that pool. There's no reason to consider Deb., which isn't a Band 1 practice, but not K&E, which is. It's the same with Skadden.

OP. Got it. That's interesting to hear! I definitely thought (and still think) CSM is really hard to get.