TIP/TARE Tax LL.M 2021 Forum

[CanadianWolf]

Simply because your encounter differs from my experience & knowledge does not mean that my post was incorrect or "false"; it just means that you & your friend had a different experience.

Three years ago, SF was hiring at $105,000 for new associates. This was even published in recruiting ads for at least 2 of the Big 4. I know folks who were hired in the SF area for $5,000 to $10,000 higher in M&A than the published salary.

International tax typically offers a lower starting salary then does M&A.

As to your assertion that: "Cost of living has nothing to do with it." = It does with respect to San Francisco/Palo Alto/ SV area.

Sometimes budget comes into play. I know a person who was offered just $85,000 by PwC in NYC about 5 years ago for SALT. Last year I discussed hiring salaries with a Wash DC Big 4 about 2016 salaries that are significantly higher than today. The response focused on budget (funds available) & immediate need.

But, I do want to stress that offers vary by practice area.

Also, experience comes into play in many situations. Recently. I am aware of an applicant offered a higher starting salary due to an urgent need with respect to foreign language ability.

Plus, why is your post anonymous ?

[Anonymous User]

Simply because your encounter differs from my experience & knowledge does not mean that my post was incorrect or "false"; it just means that you & your friend had a different experience.

Three years ago, SF was hiring at $105,000 for new associates. This was even published in recruiting ads for at least 2 of the Big 4. I know folks who were hired in the SF area for $5,000 to $10,000 higher in M&A than the published salary.

International tax typically offers a lower starting salary then does M&A.

As to your assertion that: "Cost of living has nothing to do with it." = It does with respect to San Francisco/Palo Alto/ SV area.

Sometimes budget comes into play. I know a person who was offered just $85,000 by PwC in NYC about 5 years ago for SALT. Last year I discussed hiring salaries with a Wash DC Big 4 about 2016 salaries that are significantly higher than today. The response focused on budget (funds available) & immediate need.

But, I do want to stress that offers vary by practice area.

Also, experience comes into play in many situations. Recently. I am aware of an applicant offered a higher starting salary due to an urgent need with respect to foreign language ability.

Plus, why is your post anonymous ?

I was mentioning my offer (including the salary) from a Big 4 Chicago office, so I wanted to do it anonymously.

I know for a fact that Deloitte and PwC were both paying really low salaries in SF / Bay Area as recently as 2019. I know there are some variances between practice and need, but given how expensive that area is, people always expect to see bigger numbers. That’s why I said your response was “false.” I think people expect SF to be paying the same as DC/NY/WNT, and it in fact does not.

I think part of it has to do with demand to work in those areas. The big 4 can get away with paying associates in SF less than places like Atlanta and San Antonio (and the same as Detroit, I believe) because people will take those offers regardless. 3 years ago, KPMG Dallas, Houston, and Atlanta all paid more than SF. I think that’s no longer the case, but it’s a datapoint.

Also, I don’t think your post proved my point wrong. You mentioned that SF was paying $105k 3 years ago. That’s still less than the $110-$115 for Dallas/Houston/Atlanta/Chicago, which are very affordable, especially compared to SF.

Also, as to another one of your points, EY bumped salaries to $140k a few years ago but lowered them due to backlash or something, so that may also factor into the lower salaries now v 2016 (when EY offered people $140k for a number of offices in the fall).

[CanadianWolf]

Thank you for responding. Your info. is very helpful. My info. is piecemeal.

[Anonymous User]

Simply because your encounter differs from my experience & knowledge does not mean that my post was incorrect or "false"; it just means that you & your friend had a different experience.

Three years ago, SF was hiring at $105,000 for new associates. This was even published in recruiting ads for at least 2 of the Big 4. I know folks who were hired in the SF area for $5,000 to $10,000 higher in M&A than the published salary.

International tax typically offers a lower starting salary then does M&A.

As to your assertion that: "Cost of living has nothing to do with it." = It does with respect to San Francisco/Palo Alto/ SV area.

Sometimes budget comes into play. I know a person who was offered just $85,000 by PwC in NYC about 5 years ago for SALT. Last year I discussed hiring salaries with a Wash DC Big 4 about 2016 salaries that are significantly higher than today. The response focused on budget (funds available) & immediate need.

But, I do want to stress that offers vary by practice area.

Also, experience comes into play in many situations. Recently. I am aware of an applicant offered a higher starting salary due to an urgent need with respect to foreign language ability.

Plus, why is your post anonymous ?

I was mentioning my offer (including the salary) from a Big 4 Chicago office, so I wanted to do it anonymously.

I know for a fact that Deloitte and PwC were both paying really low salaries in SF / Bay Area as recently as 2019. I know there are some variances between practice and need, but given how expensive that area is, people always expect to see bigger numbers. That’s why I said your response was “false.” I think people expect SF to be paying the same as DC/NY/WNT, and it in fact does not.

I think part of it has to do with demand to work in those areas. The big 4 can get away with paying associates in SF less than places like Atlanta and San Antonio (and the same as Detroit, I believe) because people will take those offers regardless. 3 years ago, KPMG Dallas, Houston, and Atlanta all paid more than SF. I think that’s no longer the case, but it’s a datapoint.

Also, I don’t think your post proved my point wrong. You mentioned that SF was paying $105k 3 years ago. That’s still less than the $110-$115 for Dallas/Houston/Atlanta/Chicago, which are very affordable, especially compared to SF.

Also, as to another one of your points, EY bumped salaries to $140k a few years ago but lowered them due to backlash or something, so that may also factor into the lower salaries now v 2016 (when EY offered people $140k for a number of offices in the fall).

+1 to this. I have friends who received offers in the 80k range as recent as 2019 in SF and LA.
I think COL is probably a factor in offers, but its likely a lot smaller factor than people think. Big4 salaries seem all over the place depending on service line (M&A, SALT, International, WNTS, etc.) whether you have a LLM, geographic market, etc. so its really hard to gauge whether your offer is "market" or not.

[CanadianWolf]

My information is with respect to M&A tax Big 4 unless specified otherwise.

Agree with the above post/poster that "Big4 salaries seem all over the place" and that salary offers definitely vary by practice line with WNTS and M&A tax being the highest, followed by International Tax, then SALT.

Salaries also vary based on whether one has just a JD or is a JD/LLM.

Would like to know some specifics regarding offers of $80,000 range in SF and LA "as recently as 2019" such as whether JD or JD/LLM and specialty line (M&A, Int'l, SALT).

I do not doubt anything that is shared regarding Big 4 salaries including the $140,000 figure for M&A tax in 2016 that someone shared in another thread years ago. Unfortunately, specific details were not included in this post. (My thought is that it may have included both salary & signing bonus.)

My impression is that offers made during TIP & TARE tend to be more uniform than those made outside of these recruiting events.

Has anyone been asked to make a commitment in terms of years ?

Were BDO & RSM recruiting at TIP & TARE this year ?

[here2lurk]

My information is with respect to M&A tax Big 4 unless specified otherwise.

Agree with the above post/poster that "Big4 salaries seem all over the place" and that salary offers definitely vary by practice line with WNTS and M&A tax being the highest, followed by International Tax, then SALT.

Salaries also vary based on whether one has just a JD or is a JD/LLM.

Would like to know some specifics regarding offers of $80,000 range in SF and LA "as recently as 2019" such as whether JD or JD/LLM and specialty line (M&A, Int'l, SALT).

I do not doubt anything that is shared regarding Big 4 salaries including the $140,000 figure for M&A tax in 2016 that someone shared in another thread years ago. Unfortunately, specific details were not included in this post. (My thought is that it may have included both salary & signing bonus.)

My impression is that offers made during TIP & TARE tend to be more uniform than those made outside of these recruiting events.

Has anyone been asked to make a commitment in terms of years ?

Were BDO & RSM recruiting at TIP & TARE this year ?

BDO did TIP Resume Collect. No RSM.