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HYS prepping for OCI. Very strong interest in both securities lit and appellate, but I recognize that these practices tend to be heavily focused in NY and DC respectively. Career-wise, I'd like to stay at a firm for as long as possible. Geographically, I have no preferences (and conversely, no ties)—would go anywhere that gave the best mix of both.

I've scoured Chambers/Benchmark 500/Vault and it looks like my best bets for a mix of both might be Gibson, Latham, Paul Weiss, and W&C for DC; Cravath, Gibson (again), Quinn, and S&C for NY; Munger for CA.

It would be great to get your thoughts. Please let me know if I'm missing anywhere!

Interviewing for DC appellate without incredible grades and ties is an excellent way to strike out. I speak from experience (ranked in single digits at CCN, LR, got an offer at a top DC appellate firm but it was my only offer, have multiple friends that did the same). Appellate groups take very few summers, my firm’s had two. Just tell firms you’re interested in litigation.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:34 pm

Interviewing for DC appellate without incredible grades and ties is an excellent way to strike out. I speak from experience (ranked in single digits at CCN, LR, got an offer at a top DC appellate firm but it was my only offer, have multiple friends that did the same). Appellate groups take very few summers, my firm’s had two. Just tell firms you’re interested in litigation.

For this reason, GDC is a good pick. You don't have to interview for a specific lit practice (or even choose a practice group for a few years as an associate), and with the free market you have the ability to target appellate/securities partners for work (as an associate, not as a summer).

Anon/Full disclosure: I'm a GDC associate who does ~50% appellate lit.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:34 pm

Interviewing for DC appellate without incredible grades and ties is an excellent way to strike out. I speak from experience (ranked in single digits at CCN, LR, got an offer at a top DC appellate firm but it was my only offer, have multiple friends that did the same). Appellate groups take very few summers, my firm’s had two. Just tell firms you’re interested in litigation.

For this reason, GDC is a good pick. You don't have to interview for a specific lit practice (or even choose a practice group for a few years as an associate), and with the free market you have the ability to target appellate/securities partners for work (as an associate, not as a summer).

Anon/Full disclosure: I'm a GDC associate who does ~50% appellate lit.

Jones Day functions much the same way--the first year of your time at the firm you're in the broad "New Lawyers Group", and there seemed to be ample opportunities to mix practice groups, giving you a better shot at doing appellate or securities work.

This narrow of a focus is dangerous. Striking out is a real possibility. Are you clerking?

Also unless you become a SCOTUS clerk you won’t be in the appellate group at jones day

OP here: thanks all. To dispel any concerns, I'll clarify that this isn't going to constitute my entire list, but rather the core that I'll build around. (I'm as worried about striking out as anyone!) Just want to make sure that I'm aware of all of the firms that I should definitely add. Your help is appreciated!

I think it depends on which law school you're at. I can only speak to YLS, but if you have good grades (let's say 3Hs) and are a decent interviewer, then GDC and S&C in NYC should be relatively easy to land. PW too. Really the majority of NYC firms should be pretty decent shots even with 2+ Hs.

DC is more hit or miss, even from YLS, as is MTO. I agree that GDC in DC would be a good bet, because they have a larger summer class.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:34 pm

Interviewing for DC appellate without incredible grades and ties is an excellent way to strike out. I speak from experience (ranked in single digits at CCN, LR, got an offer at a top DC appellate firm but it was my only offer, have multiple friends that did the same). Appellate groups take very few summers, my firm’s had two. Just tell firms you’re interested in litigation.

For this reason, GDC is a good pick. You don't have to interview for a specific lit practice (or even choose a practice group for a few years as an associate), and with the free market you have the ability to target appellate/securities partners for work (as an associate, not as a summer).

Anon/Full disclosure: I'm a GDC associate who does ~50% appellate lit.

Jones Day functions much the same way--the first year of your time at the firm you're in the broad "New Lawyers Group", and there seemed to be ample opportunities to mix practice groups, giving you a better shot at doing appellate or securities work.

At my school Jones Day is also relatively promiscuous with offers for a DC firm. It’s a big office.

My general advice for DC is to bid everywhere, especially for appellate. Nobody can count on an offer from any firm except possibly SCOTUS-level types. Gibson, Wilmer, and Jones Day are probably the largest practices but from my understanding the work they do isn’t materially different from what like Jenner or O’Melveny or S&C do. See where you get offers and then worry about which one to pick if you have a decision to make.

NY offices generally have much bigger classes and are much less selective than DC offices.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:34 pm

Interviewing for DC appellate without incredible grades and ties is an excellent way to strike out. I speak from experience (ranked in single digits at CCN, LR, got an offer at a top DC appellate firm but it was my only offer, have multiple friends that did the same). Appellate groups take very few summers, my firm’s had two. Just tell firms you’re interested in litigation.

For this reason, GDC is a good pick. You don't have to interview for a specific lit practice (or even choose a practice group for a few years as an associate), and with the free market you have the ability to target appellate/securities partners for work (as an associate, not as a summer).

Anon/Full disclosure: I'm a GDC associate who does ~50% appellate lit.

Jones Day functions much the same way--the first year of your time at the firm you're in the broad "New Lawyers Group", and there seemed to be ample opportunities to mix practice groups, giving you a better shot at doing appellate or securities work.

At my school Jones Day is also relatively promiscuous with offers for a DC firm. It’s a big office.

My general advice for DC is to bid everywhere, especially for appellate. Nobody can count on an offer from any firm except possibly SCOTUS-level types. Gibson, Wilmer, and Jones Day are probably the largest practices but from my understanding the work they do isn’t materially different from what like Jenner or O’Melveny or S&C do. See where you get offers and then worry about which one to pick if you have a decision to make.

NY offices generally have much bigger classes and are much less selective than DC offices.

I am a different poster using anon because of experience with some of these firms.

I would not conflate ease of getting a job with ease of getting access to appellate work . For instance, while Jones Day DC is perhaps "promiscuous" with its offers in general, breaking into its issues & appeals practice is another matter. Nearly every associate there has clerked for SCOTUS (some for more than one justice). For those with more typical credentials, it is better to pick a firm with porous practice groups. For instance, Kirkland and Gibson have free market systems that give go-getters a chance to prove themselves with stellar work.

As for geography, I am not sure how much quality appellate litigation finds its way to NY. But then again, I am also not sure how much quality securities litigation finds its way to DC.

As the OP who brought up JD, lemme clarify: I&A is extremely hard to get into as a practice group, but the way they distribute assignments in your first year does present the opportunity to grab assignments from multiple groups, which continues even after you're formally placed into a practice group. So when you combine that with its large D.C. office and willingness to give offers, that's what I think makes it attractive.

I work at W&C (hence the anon). We would be a good choice. As you identified, we have strong securities lit and appellate practices. We also don't have practice groups, so you could carve out a niche for yourself doing those two types of cases. (There are two partners who fit that bill.) Most associates interested in appellate work tend to gravitate towards other things (criminal, first amendment, IP), but there's no reason you couldn't combine both.