Page 1 of 3
How to escape
Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:17 pm
by Anonymous User
I’m finishing up my 5th year in biglaw corporate/M&A. I’m a normal, non-sociopathic person, so obviously I hate it. I actually like my firm and the partners I work with, but M&A is toxic, tedious, and deeply unrewarding. Where the hell do I go from here? I have a worthless liberal arts undergrad degree and a family that relies on me. I know there are probably hundreds of threads like this so feel free to shame me, but I’ve read lots of them and didn’t find anything helpful. I’m just depressed and desperate and sick of feeling that way, so figured I’d see if anyone can help. I have applied for in-house gigs but have had no luck and honestly, those gigs sound awful too. Thanks in advance.
Re: How to escape
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:16 am
by Anonymous User
Have you looked into public interest jobs at all. Public defender jobs can be interesting, civil legal aid can be very chill and rewarding. Depends how sold you are on keeping a high salary.
Re: How to escape
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:38 am
by Anonymous User
Are you young and healthy enough to look into the military?
People assume JAG, but there are other jobs too.
They provide housing, food and medical benefits for dependents, it's decent stuff.
Might be worth considering OP.
Re: How to escape
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:44 am
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:16 am
Have you looked into public interest jobs at all. Public defender jobs can be interesting, civil legal aid can be very chill and rewarding. Depends how sold you are on keeping a high salary.
Not OP, but this is extremely unhelpful. Did you not read that he/she has "a family that relies on [OP]"? Do you not know how expensive it is to have a family? Public defender/legal aid jobs provide nowhere near a salary sufficient to allow a breadwinner to support a family. I'm incredibly sensitive to OP's perspective, but there's no need to just spew nonsense.
Re: How to escape
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:48 am
by NoLongerALurker
Realistically can one even transition into something like legal aid after spending 6 years doing mergers and acquisitions? I feel like the resume gets trash binned regardless of pay issues.
Re: How to escape
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:14 am
by Anonymous User
Honestly, why not consider in house? Might be as unrewarding, but there are definitely positions out there where your hours won’t be as bad. I’ll also say that M&A, especially PE M&A, has some of the worst lifestyles I’ve experienced so it might not be as bad on the other side.
Re: How to escape
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:29 am
by RandomInternetPerson
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:44 am
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:16 am
Have you looked into public interest jobs at all. Public defender jobs can be interesting, civil legal aid can be very chill and rewarding. Depends how sold you are on keeping a high salary.
Not OP, but this is extremely unhelpful. Did you not read that he/she has "a family that relies on [OP]"? Do you not know how expensive it is to have a family? Public defender/legal aid jobs provide nowhere near a salary sufficient to allow a breadwinner to support a family. I'm incredibly sensitive to OP's perspective, but there's no need to just spew nonsense.
Also not OP, but to answer other Anon, it depends how much are you are ok with govt assistance (EBT, etc) I know lots of people who have masters degrees or above who are on such due to their fully licensed jobs not paying enough to reasonably care for a family. The secret if so if to not be lower middle class. That with a dependent and student loans.......you will die...........but be below poverty level(x2) and you can get IBR plus free rent and food and medical.
If you go low income, go low enough is all.
Re: How to escape
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:35 am
by Anonymous User
NoLongerALurker wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:48 am
Realistically can one even transition into something like legal aid after spending 6 years doing mergers and acquisitions? I feel like the resume gets trash binned regardless of pay issues.
It may depend on the clinic, but the ones that I have worked with take pretty much anyone who applies. It may be more competitive in some areas though.
Re: How to escape
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:48 am
by Barrred
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:29 am
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:44 am
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:16 am
Have you looked into public interest jobs at all. Public defender jobs can be interesting, civil legal aid can be very chill and rewarding. Depends how sold you are on keeping a high salary.
Not OP, but this is extremely unhelpful. Did you not read that he/she has "a family that relies on [OP]"? Do you not know how expensive it is to have a family? Public defender/legal aid jobs provide nowhere near a salary sufficient to allow a breadwinner to support a family. I'm incredibly sensitive to OP's perspective, but there's no need to just spew nonsense.
Also not OP, but to answer other Anon, it depends how much are you are ok with govt assistance (EBT, etc) I know lots of people who have masters degrees or above who are on such due to their fully licensed jobs not paying enough to reasonably care for a family. The secret if so if to not be lower middle class. That with a dependent and student loans.......you will die...........but be below poverty level(x2) and you can get IBR plus free rent and food and medical.
If you go low income, go low enough is all.
A microcosm of what TLS has become: In response to a question from a 5th year M&A associate asking for advice about transitioning away from biglaw, it is seriously suggested (
using the Anon feature) that OP and his family could attempt to become
literally impoverished so that they will become eligible for food stamps.
Re: How to escape
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:34 am
by JusticeSquee
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:17 pm
I’m finishing up my 5th year in biglaw corporate/M&A. I’m a normal, non-sociopathic person, so obviously I hate it. I actually like my firm and the partners I work with, but M&A is toxic, tedious, and deeply unrewarding. Where the hell do I go from here? I have a worthless liberal arts undergrad degree and a family that relies on me. I know there are probably hundreds of threads like this so feel free to shame me, but I’ve read lots of them and didn’t find anything helpful. I’m just depressed and desperate and sick of feeling that way, so figured I’d see if anyone can help. I have applied for in-house gigs but have had no luck and honestly, those gigs sound awful too. Thanks in advance.
Some folks successfully transition business-side, any interest in Private Equity work?
Some folks successfully transition into litigation finance, seems like a cool industry with good pay.
Some folks go into M&A R&W insurance. It is boring, but easy work. Also chill hours.
Some folks go into legal recruiting. Highly variable pay, but good hours. If you are a good salesperson this can be very lucrative. If you are not, this can ruin your life. YMMV.
Some folks go into real estate, either as agents, brokers, or landlords. Again, if you are going the agent/broker route, you better be a good salesperson. If you are going the landlord route, you better have a good deal of cash already stacked up. If you live near a good college town, property values are rock bottom right now and ripe for pillaging.
Opportunities are out there. Go get em bud.
Re: How to escape
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:52 am
by Definitely Not North
Put some more effort into your in-house apps
Re: How to escape
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:53 am
by Definitely Not North
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:16 am
Have you looked into public interest jobs at all. Public defender jobs can be interesting, civil legal aid can be very chill and rewarding. Depends how sold you are on keeping a high salary.
No
Re: How to escape
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:25 am
by nixy
Barrred wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:48 am
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:29 am
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:44 am
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:16 am
Have you looked into public interest jobs at all. Public defender jobs can be interesting, civil legal aid can be very chill and rewarding. Depends how sold you are on keeping a high salary.
Not OP, but this is extremely unhelpful. Did you not read that he/she has "a family that relies on [OP]"? Do you not know how expensive it is to have a family? Public defender/legal aid jobs provide nowhere near a salary sufficient to allow a breadwinner to support a family. I'm incredibly sensitive to OP's perspective, but there's no need to just spew nonsense.
Also not OP, but to answer other Anon, it depends how much are you are ok with govt assistance (EBT, etc) I know lots of people who have masters degrees or above who are on such due to their fully licensed jobs not paying enough to reasonably care for a family. The secret if so if to not be lower middle class. That with a dependent and student loans.......you will die...........but be below poverty level(x2) and you can get IBR plus free rent and food and medical.
If you go low income, go low enough is all.
A microcosm of what TLS has become: In response to a question from a 5th year M&A associate asking for advice about transitioning away from biglaw, it is seriously suggested (
using the Anon feature) that OP and his family could attempt to become
literally impoverished so that they will become eligible for food stamps.
Yeah, this is craziness.
Re: How to escape
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:47 am
by RandomInternetPerson
nixy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:25 am
Barrred wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:48 am
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:29 am
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:44 am
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:16 am
Have you looked into public interest jobs at all. Public defender jobs can be interesting, civil legal aid can be very chill and rewarding. Depends how sold you are on keeping a high salary.
Not OP, but this is extremely unhelpful. Did you not read that he/she has "a family that relies on [OP]"? Do you not know how expensive it is to have a family? Public defender/legal aid jobs provide nowhere near a salary sufficient to allow a breadwinner to support a family. I'm incredibly sensitive to OP's perspective, but there's no need to just spew nonsense.
Also not OP, but to answer other Anon, it depends how much are you are ok with govt assistance (EBT, etc) I know lots of people who have masters degrees or above who are on such due to their fully licensed jobs not paying enough to reasonably care for a family. The secret if so if to not be lower middle class. That with a dependent and student loans.......you will die...........but be below poverty level(x2) and you can get IBR plus free rent and food and medical.
If you go low income, go low enough is all.
A microcosm of what TLS has become: In response to a question from a 5th year M&A associate asking for advice about transitioning away from biglaw, it is seriously suggested (
using the Anon feature) that OP and his family could attempt to become
literally impoverished so that they will become eligible for food stamps.
Yeah, this is craziness.
Reading comp, saying that middle will be worse and why. And if need be, how to survive. Reading comp.
Re: How to escape
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:23 pm
by nixy
But also not remotely helpful.
Re: How to escape
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:26 pm
by daedalus2309
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:47 am
Reading comp, saying that middle will be worse and why. And if need be, how to survive. Reading comp.
Incredible. King shit.
Re: How to escape
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:34 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:29 am
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:44 am
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:16 am
Have you looked into public interest jobs at all. Public defender jobs can be interesting, civil legal aid can be very chill and rewarding. Depends how sold you are on keeping a high salary.
Not OP, but this is extremely unhelpful. Did you not read that he/she has "a family that relies on [OP]"? Do you not know how expensive it is to have a family? Public defender/legal aid jobs provide nowhere near a salary sufficient to allow a breadwinner to support a family. I'm incredibly sensitive to OP's perspective, but there's no need to just spew nonsense.
Also not OP, but to answer other Anon, it depends how much are you are ok with govt assistance (EBT, etc) I know lots of people who have masters degrees or above who are on such due to their fully licensed jobs not paying enough to reasonably care for a family. The secret if so if to not be lower middle class. That with a dependent and student loans.......you will die...........but be below poverty level(x2) and you can get IBR plus free rent and food and medical.
If you go low income, go low enough is all.
Maybe he can try working at Sears?
Re: How to escape
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:56 pm
by RandomInternetPerson
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:34 pm
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:29 am
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:44 am
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:16 am
Have you looked into public interest jobs at all. Public defender jobs can be interesting, civil legal aid can be very chill and rewarding. Depends how sold you are on keeping a high salary.
Not OP, but this is extremely unhelpful. Did you not read that he/she has "a family that relies on [OP]"? Do you not know how expensive it is to have a family? Public defender/legal aid jobs provide nowhere near a salary sufficient to allow a breadwinner to support a family. I'm incredibly sensitive to OP's perspective, but there's no need to just spew nonsense.
Also not OP, but to answer other Anon, it depends how much are you are ok with govt assistance (EBT, etc) I know lots of people who have masters degrees or above who are on such due to their fully licensed jobs not paying enough to reasonably care for a family. The secret if so if to not be lower middle class. That with a dependent and student loans.......you will die...........but be below poverty level(x2) and you can get IBR plus free rent and food and medical.
If you go low income, go low enough is all.
Maybe he can try working at Sears?
Maybe. Was mostly responding to others references to such jobs though, so again.... reading comp.
Re: How to escape
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:56 pm
by Definitely Not North
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:34 pm
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:29 am
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:44 am
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:16 am
Have you looked into public interest jobs at all. Public defender jobs can be interesting, civil legal aid can be very chill and rewarding. Depends how sold you are on keeping a high salary.
Not OP, but this is extremely unhelpful. Did you not read that he/she has "a family that relies on [OP]"? Do you not know how expensive it is to have a family? Public defender/legal aid jobs provide nowhere near a salary sufficient to allow a breadwinner to support a family. I'm incredibly sensitive to OP's perspective, but there's no need to just spew nonsense.
Also not OP, but to answer other Anon, it depends how much are you are ok with govt assistance (EBT, etc) I know lots of people who have masters degrees or above who are on such due to their fully licensed jobs not paying enough to reasonably care for a family. The secret if so if to not be lower middle class. That with a dependent and student loans.......you will die...........but be below poverty level(x2) and you can get IBR plus free rent and food and medical.
If you go low income, go low enough is all.
Maybe he can try working at Sears?
want to be careful not to pick up too many shifts though since they start to ratchet down your food stamps at a certain point. reading comp bro
Re: How to escape
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:07 pm
by Nmco
I had a similar experience in a big firm and after several years there I left for a career clerkship in a federal court. We moved to a small-ish city where the pay cut from biglaw was bearable. I find the work interesting and rewarding and the reasonable hours make up for some of the judge egos that must be navigated. A clerkship can also give you an in with an FPD, AUSA or federal agency job if clerking turns out not to be for you.
Re: How to escape
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:01 pm
by lawlo
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:56 pm
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:34 pm
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:29 am
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:44 am
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:16 am
Have you looked into public interest jobs at all. Public defender jobs can be interesting, civil legal aid can be very chill and rewarding. Depends how sold you are on keeping a high salary.
Not OP, but this is extremely unhelpful. Did you not read that he/she has "a family that relies on [OP]"? Do you not know how expensive it is to have a family? Public defender/legal aid jobs provide nowhere near a salary sufficient to allow a breadwinner to support a family. I'm incredibly sensitive to OP's perspective, but there's no need to just spew nonsense.
Also not OP, but to answer other Anon, it depends how much are you are ok with govt assistance (EBT, etc) I know lots of people who have masters degrees or above who are on such due to their fully licensed jobs not paying enough to reasonably care for a family. The secret if so if to not be lower middle class. That with a dependent and student loans.......you will die...........but be below poverty level(x2) and you can get IBR plus free rent and food and medical.
If you go low income, go low enough is all.
Maybe he can try working at Sears?
Maybe. Was mostly responding to others references to such jobs though, so again.... reading comp.
Someone out this idiot for anon abuse. I’ve been seeing an increase in stupid anon comments in other threads too and think it might be the same person. You’re telling someone making over 300k a year to get on food stamps. Gtfo.
Re: How to escape
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:02 pm
by Barrred
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:47 am
Reading comp, saying that middle will be worse and why. And if need be, how to survive. Reading comp.
I, for one, am glad that our 1L "reading comp" expert here is able to protect his anonymity in providing such brave insight.
Re: How to escape
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:46 pm
by Neff
I was in a very similar place a few months ago. Just finished my 5th year in corporate/M&A biglaw and found that I hated most of it and had no desire to continue. Unfortunately, being married with a kid with another on the way, I can't just walk away from a $300k job, even though I personally had little interest in the money. As ridiculous as it sounds, $300k or $30k -- it's all the same to me -- but not to my family, and therein lies the rub.
Luckily, I had no debt besides a reasonable mortgage at rock-bottom interest, and a good amount of savings. If that describes you as well, you aren't in a bad spot. I ended up landing a gig at a boutique corporate firm that bills 1200-1500 hours and still pays quite well (in the 200s), filled with biglaw refugees who wanted to create a better environment for themselves. It's still corporate law, but just a lot less of it. Amazing how much better it feels to bill 4-6 hours instead of 8+ hours.
There is hope -- whether you transition to a slower-paced practice like I did, go in-house (dependent on your market, but these jobs are out there but you have to be patient to land the right fit), or leave the law entirely. If you have no interest in staying a lawyer, I'd consider talking to a career coach -- so much is out there in the world that lawyers are sometimes oblivious to. Much depends on your personal factors (primarily financial -- e.g. does your spouse work, how much minimum do you need to make, etc).
Best of luck!
Re: How to escape
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:53 pm
by Anonymous User
Agreed. PE/M&A is toxic, especially when you deal with those "prestigious" investment banks or PEs. They basically want everything ready in 24 hours. Fxxk them. Seriously. But if your client is the company, it's much better.
Re: How to escape
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:49 pm
by Anonymous User
Neff wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:46 pm
I was in a very similar place a few months ago. Just finished my 5th year in corporate/M&A biglaw and found that I hated most of it and had no desire to continue. Unfortunately, being married with a kid with another on the way, I can't just walk away from a $300k job, even though I personally had little interest in the money. As ridiculous as it sounds, $300k or $30k -- it's all the same to me -- but not to my family, and therein lies the rub.
Luckily, I had no debt besides a reasonable mortgage at rock-bottom interest, and a good amount of savings. If that describes you as well, you aren't in a bad spot. I ended up landing a gig at a boutique corporate firm that bills 1200-1500 hours and still pays quite well (in the 200s), filled with biglaw refugees who wanted to create a better environment for themselves. It's still corporate law, but just a lot less of it. Amazing how much better it feels to bill 4-6 hours instead of 8+ hours.
There is hope -- whether you transition to a slower-paced practice like I did, go in-house (dependent on your market, but these jobs are out there but you have to be patient to land the right fit), or leave the law entirely. If you have no interest in staying a lawyer, I'd consider talking to a career coach -- so much is out there in the world that lawyers are sometimes oblivious to. Much depends on your personal factors (primarily financial -- e.g. does your spouse work, how much minimum do you need to make, etc).
Best of luck!
Does this firm do lit, and if so, is it hiring?