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I’ve heard mixed feedback on this from recruiters. Seems to me that, if you’ve been putting up big billable numbers (like top biller in the group for multiple years while doing real work, not doc review or whatever) and are looking to lateral, it can only help to flag that in your resume/cover letter. Seems like it would immediately answer the question: “is this dude lateraling because he sucks and is getting pushed out for low hours?” Thoughts?

I think you could do it unless you are so tired of being overworked that you want to move some place where you can chill out a bit and not be the "people are busy? just dump it on the new dude, he loves to bill" person

s1m4 wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:20 pm

I think you could do it unless you are so tired of being overworked that you want to move some place where you can chill out a bit and not be the "people are busy? just dump it on the new dude, he loves to bill" person

OP. lol good point. I do not love billing and it's the majority of the reason for the move, but man do i want the hours i did bill to be of some benefit to me in getting out

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:56 pm

s1m4 wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:20 pm

I think you could do it unless you are so tired of being overworked that you want to move some place where you can chill out a bit and not be the "people are busy? just dump it on the new dude, he loves to bill" person

OP. lol good point. I do not love billing and it's the majority of the reason for the move, but man do i want the hours i did bill to be of some benefit to me in getting out

Have you looked into salary govt jobs?

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:56 pm

s1m4 wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:20 pm

I think you could do it unless you are so tired of being overworked that you want to move some place where you can chill out a bit and not be the "people are busy? just dump it on the new dude, he loves to bill" person

OP. lol good point. I do not love billing and it's the majority of the reason for the move, but man do i want the hours i did bill to be of some benefit to me in getting out

Have you looked into salary govt jobs?

OP. Oh no -- definitely not what I have in mind. Aiming for a chill high-paying corporate in-house job in a few years, but would like to bill 2000-2200 a year until then instead of 2500+.

There’s no point doing this if you’re looking to stay at a biglaw firm. People “lateral down” regularly without being fired, and a lot of people don’t question it at all.

I’m assuming you’re thinking of lateraling down instead of up given the context of your question.

2013 wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 07, 2020 7:43 pm

There’s no point doing this if you’re looking to stay at a biglaw firm. People “lateral down” regularly without being fired, and a lot of people don’t question it at all.

I’m assuming you’re thinking of lateraling down instead of up given the context of your question.

OP. Not sure how I suggested that in the OP -- probably will be lateralling up actually.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 07, 2020 7:46 pm

2013 wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 07, 2020 7:43 pm

There’s no point doing this if you’re looking to stay at a biglaw firm. People “lateral down” regularly without being fired, and a lot of people don’t question it at all.

I’m assuming you’re thinking of lateraling down instead of up given the context of your question.

OP. Not sure how I suggested that in the OP -- probably will be lateralling up actually.

You mentioned a more chill firm, so I assumed. Maybe it wasn’t in the OP, but I think you mentioned it somewhere.

Anyway, if you’re trying to lateral up, no one is going to assume you were fired if you don’t have your hours on there. Also, if you show some crazy hours (2500+), they may want to verify it somehow. I’m not saying you wouldn’t be able to, but why add extra (unnecessary) step?

If you brag about hours as a selling point, expect them to expect to see that played out once they hire you. If you don't want to juggle knives for a living, don't brag on resume about your juggling abilities.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:26 pm

If you brag about hours as a selling point, expect them to expect to see that played out once they hire you. If you don't want to juggle knives for a living, don't brag on resume about your juggling abilities.

Agreed with this. Personally I would find it very offputting unless I guess I was just looking for someone to squeeze hours out of.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 08, 2020 2:33 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:26 pm

If you brag about hours as a selling point, expect them to expect to see that played out once they hire you. If you don't want to juggle knives for a living, don't brag on resume about your juggling abilities.

Agreed with this. Personally I would find it very offputting unless I guess I was just looking for someone to squeeze hours out of.

If that’s the rule and biglaw partners are the ones doing the hiring I think we can safely assume none of them would find it offputting

I wouldn’t mention hours. The goal is big law is to be known for doing really good work not necessarily for billing a ton.

Just had a recruiter tell me to take my billable hours off my resume. Legitimately don't understand that advice -- all biglaw partners care about is billable hours, and they can't tell how good your work product is before they hire you. Why wouldn't you want to advertise that you're in demand enough at your current firm to put up solid/big numbers year after year.

If I got a lateral resume with someone's hours listed on it and they were solid numbers, it would make me more inclined to vote yes on that candidate.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:41 pm

Just had a recruiter tell me to take my billable hours off my resume. Legitimately don't understand that advice -- all biglaw partners care about is billable hours, and they can't tell how good your work product is before they hire you. Why wouldn't you want to advertise that you're in demand enough at your current firm to put up solid/big numbers year after year.

If I got a lateral resume with someone's hours listed on it and they were solid numbers, it would make me more inclined to vote yes on that candidate.

Try replacing it with your LSAT score or SAT scores instead. As long as we’re throwing out useless numbers to demonstrate how insufferable we are - might as well through the book at them.

I’m being facetious, but in all seriousness, if I saw someone put their billable hours on their resume, it would be an auto-no from me. You’re recruiter did you a solid.

No.

Firms don’t care how many hours you’re billing, they care that you’re competent.

Anyone can bill a lot of hours

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:41 pm

Just had a recruiter tell me to take my billable hours off my resume. Legitimately don't understand that advice -- all biglaw partners care about is billable hours, and they can't tell how good your work product is before they hire you. Why wouldn't you want to advertise that you're in demand enough at your current firm to put up solid/big numbers year after year.

If I got a lateral resume with someone's hours listed on it and they were solid numbers, it would make me more inclined to vote yes on that candidate.

Try replacing it with your LSAT score or SAT scores instead. As long as we’re throwing out useless numbers to demonstrate how insufferable we are - might as well through the book at them.

I’m being facetious, but in all seriousness, if I saw someone put their billable hours on their resume, it would be an auto-no from me. You’re recruiter did you a solid.

Quoted OP. Okay -- definitely understand I'm probably wrong here, but unlike SAT and LSAT scores, billable hours is literally the number of hours of experience you have doing the job you're being hired for, and is how all biglaw firms make retention/firing/bonus decisions for their own associates. It obviously matters -- why pretend it doesn't? Is it seriously just that gauche?

I once saw a recommendation e-mail where a partner at another firm was recommending one of his associates to partners at my firm (the guy was moving to our city where they didn't have an office and it seemed like the partner was doing them a solid making the intro). You know what the first thing the partner mentioned to our partners after saying generally that the associate was good? The guy's historical hours.

From everything I've seen talked about here recently, hours billed is more about the firm's workload and currently everyone's swamped and doing high hours. So how is putting billable hours going to help you?

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:41 pm

Just had a recruiter tell me to take my billable hours off my resume. Legitimately don't understand that advice -- all biglaw partners care about is billable hours, and they can't tell how good your work product is before they hire you. Why wouldn't you want to advertise that you're in demand enough at your current firm to put up solid/big numbers year after year.

If I got a lateral resume with someone's hours listed on it and they were solid numbers, it would make me more inclined to vote yes on that candidate.

Try replacing it with your LSAT score or SAT scores instead. As long as we’re throwing out useless numbers to demonstrate how insufferable we are - might as well through the book at them.

I’m being facetious, but in all seriousness, if I saw someone put their billable hours on their resume, it would be an auto-no from me. You’re recruiter did you a solid.

Quoted OP. Okay -- definitely understand I'm probably wrong here, but unlike SAT and LSAT scores, billable hours is literally the number of hours of experience you have doing the job you're being hired for, and is how all biglaw firms make retention/firing/bonus decisions for their own associates. It obviously matters -- why pretend it doesn't? Is it seriously just that gauche?

I once saw a recommendation e-mail where a partner at another firm was recommending one of his associates to partners at my firm (the guy was moving to our city where they didn't have an office and it seemed like the partner was doing them a solid making the intro). You know what the first thing the partner mentioned to our partners after saying generally that the associate was good? The guy's historical hours.

Partners aren’t the only ones making hiring decisions. I interview laterals as an associate.

I will only have 1 of 2 reactions to this. If it’s less hours than me “does he think that’s impressive?”. If it’s more hours than me “wow, what a gunner/loser. Don’t wanna hang out with guy for sure”.

So, yes this can hurt you.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:24 pm

Quoted OP. Okay -- definitely understand I'm probably wrong here, but unlike SAT and LSAT scores, billable hours is literally the number of hours of experience you have doing the job you're being hired for, and is how all biglaw firms make retention/firing/bonus decisions for their own associates. It obviously matters -- why pretend it doesn't? Is it seriously just that gauche?

It is seriously that gauche. I'm not sure it would be an autoding if a candidate did this at my firm, but it would be close.

More broadly, this confuses two types of and purposes of metrics between hiring and actual employment. Billable hours makes some sense to measure people already working for the firm because part of the point is to incentivize working more, and thus making more money for the firm. But at the hiring stage, the assumption is that everyone would clear the minimum anyway. So what we're looking for in lateral candidates is more substantive experience (along with the other, less-measurable things like being collegial to work with). But that isn't a function of hours. You can bill 2500 hours doing doc review and research memos, and you can take depos and bill 1800. Just list the actual substantive experience you have. Which is what everyone actually does, if they have it.

Billable hours on your résumé is like putting dick size on your Tinder profile. Just a bad idea all-around.

I am a biglaw partner and I do not give two fucks how many hours you bill. I care that you can deliver work product that I don’t need to redo from the ground up, that you can do real substantive work (it is nice if I don’t need to write every brief or take every depo), and that you work quickly and efficiently. If I saw a resume with the number of hours you billed, I would throw it in the trash - not just because it is gauche (which it is), but because it demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of how you add value to me and our clients.

anyone who would do this has bad judgment

The Lsat Airbender wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:01 pm

Billable hours on your résumé is like putting dick size on your Tinder profile. Just a bad idea all-around.

Unless impressively large, right?? like 6"/2000 hours?

LittleRedCorvette wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:22 pm

The Lsat Airbender wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:01 pm

Billable hours on your résumé is like putting dick size on your Tinder profile. Just a bad idea all-around.

Unless impressively large, right?? like 6"/2000 hours?

No, because that makes it looks like you are either lying or trying to paper over deficiencies elsewhere. It's a no-win play.