Top Law Schools

Have we tried this before? This forum gets thousands of views every day. Vault rankings are dumb but firms care about them (or at least the recruiting/ADR people who sit in on firm committee meetings do). Maybe if we coordinate responses to the Vault survey we can better punish/reward firms that deserve it. Also, having a TLS response guide would make the survey way quicker to fill out (like, I haven't filled it out in years for this reason, but probably would if I was just giving 0s/10s while looking at this thread). As I recall, they have you rate firms on a scale of 0 to 10 (let me know if I'm remembering wrong, maybe it's 1 to 10).

I think response rate is pretty low so if we have a few hundred people filling them out based on this thread, it could make a big impact.

I figure the rule could be simple. We have two lists in this OP -- firms that get zeros, and firms that get 10s. Firms not listed get nothing/whatever. Can discuss the lists ITT and add/remove as needed. Initial list below.



TENS

• Cooley [fall bonus first mover]
• Davis Polk [fall bonus]
• Milbank [fall bonus]
• Hueston Hennigan [fall bonus]
• Irell [fall bonus]
• Sullivan & Cromwell [fall bonus]
• Debevoise [fall bonus]
• Simpson Thatcher [fall bonus]
• Freshfields [fall bonus]
• Weil [fall bonus]
• Shearman [fall bonus]
• Willkie [fall bonus]

ZEROS

• Cravath [no fall bonus]
• Kirkland [no fall bonus]
• Skadden
• Paul Wiess
• who else?

I figure I'll update the OP as I read the thread/am convinced (or someone else can do it if I get busy or whatever). When the Vault surveys go out (when is that again?) someone will remember to bump this and people can remember to do the survey based on the list. Thoughts?

Edited by AdminMegan (October 15 10 am)

Wait can you not edit posts after a while? Just tried to edit a post from like a week ago and can't. Not sure how I would update the OP if not. Man this forum fucking blows now

Definitely Not North wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:20 pm

Wait can you not edit posts after a while? Just tried to edit a post from like a week ago and can't. Not sure how I would update the OP if not. Man this forum fucking blows now

Yeah this site blows now.

That being said, did cooley ever make people whole for fucking them over on last year's summer bonus? Seems like they shouldn't get a 10.
Also, let's take down latham. It's not a v5 and people are forgetting about the great lathaming already.

dabigchina wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:44 pm

Definitely Not North wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:20 pm

Wait can you not edit posts after a while? Just tried to edit a post from like a week ago and can't. Not sure how I would update the OP if not. Man this forum fucking blows now

Yeah this site blows now.

Wow I am already locked out of the OP

AdminMegan wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:28 pm

Can you get rid of this stupid rule so we can have a thread with an active OP

S&C screwed its summers this year worse than any other major biglaw firm by cancelling the program entirely

Let's add cleary, Paul Weiss, and goodwin to the zero list

Don't waste your time op.
1. This site isn't a player in the legal internet. Facebook groups, or even just reddit law school have way more reach.
2. As you can see in the replies, you'll never come to a collective consensus about who should get a 10 and 0
3. Anyone who cares about this already knows who paid bonuses, and will factor that into their vote.

if there's an active legal FB/Reddit that isn't filled with TTT students posting memes and whining about test anxiety please point me to it, bc otherwise best we got is TLS

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:55 pm

Let's add cleary, Paul Weiss, and goodwin to the zero list

Why Goodwin? Anon b/c I work there. We are starting all our first-years this month. We also gave them an interest-free loan.

Doing the Lord's work (if only the post was editable).

Anyway, PW and Skadden should be on the 0 list.

Definitely Not North wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:51 pm

dabigchina wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:44 pm

Definitely Not North wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:20 pm

Wait can you not edit posts after a while? Just tried to edit a post from like a week ago and can't. Not sure how I would update the OP if not. Man this forum fucking blows now

Yeah this site blows now.

Wow I am already locked out of the OP

AdminMegan wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:28 pm

Can you get rid of this stupid rule so we can have a thread with an active OP

I don't have the ability to change that, but I am happy to edit the post as much as possible just like we did for the v100 during COVID.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:55 pm

Let's add cleary, Paul Weiss, and goodwin to the zero list

Why Goodwin? Anon b/c I work there. We are starting all our first-years this month. We also gave them an interest-free loan.

Goodwin associate chiming in. The stealths were really tough, and I can't imagine how difficult it must have been for the people who were directly affected.

From the perspective of someone who was not stealthed, it started when a bunch of associates got mysteriously pulled off of my deals (who I later learned were stealthed). Then I had to say goodbye to some excellent associates (who IMO didn't deserve the way the firm treated them) and was terrified that I was going to get cut. Then work picked up and we didn't have enough associates, so I have been working non-stop. I wasn't shocked at Goodwin not giving fall bonuses, but it was frustrating to hear, especially after continuously hearing about how amazing the firm is doing.

AdminMegan wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:48 am

Definitely Not North wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:51 pm

dabigchina wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:44 pm

Definitely Not North wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:20 pm

Wait can you not edit posts after a while? Just tried to edit a post from like a week ago and can't. Not sure how I would update the OP if not. Man this forum fucking blows now

Yeah this site blows now.

Wow I am already locked out of the OP

AdminMegan wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:28 pm

Can you get rid of this stupid rule so we can have a thread with an active OP

I don't have the ability to change that, but I am happy to edit the post as much as possible just like we did for the v100 during COVID.

Okay. Can you update the OP to delete the second "firms" I put in the title

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:55 pm

Let's add cleary, Paul Weiss, and goodwin to the zero list

Why Goodwin? Anon b/c I work there. We are starting all our first-years this month. We also gave them an interest-free loan.

Goodwin associate chiming in. The stealths were really tough, and I can't imagine how difficult it must have been for the people who were directly affected.

From the perspective of someone who was not stealthed, it started when a bunch of associates got mysteriously pulled off of my deals (who I later learned were stealthed). Then I had to say goodbye to some excellent associates (who IMO didn't deserve the way the firm treated them) and was terrified that I was going to get cut. Then work picked up and we didn't have enough associates, so I have been working non-stop. I wasn't shocked at Goodwin not giving fall bonuses, but it was frustrating to hear, especially after continuously hearing about how amazing the firm is doing.

First anon here. Sorry, should have clarified: I am a junior in an unaffected group so the stealthing news did not affect us, and I'm aware of the relatively fortunate position we are in compared with the rest of the firm. Did not mean to come off as insensitive, I'm just genuinely uninformed and out of the loop. I, too, cannot imagine how difficult it must have been for the stealthed people, so I concur with those who would add Goodwin to the 0 list.

dabigchina wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:44 pm

Definitely Not North wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:20 pm

Wait can you not edit posts after a while? Just tried to edit a post from like a week ago and can't. Not sure how I would update the OP if not. Man this forum fucking blows now

Yeah this site blows now.

That being said, did cooley ever make people whole for fucking them over on last year's summer bonus? Seems like they shouldn't get a 10.
Also, let's take down latham. It's not a v5 and people are forgetting about the great lathaming already.

Anon b/c I'm at Latham. I agree that we shouldn't be V5. But the firm hasn't laid anyone off, didn't cut salaries, didn't fuck over this year's summers, and is starting all first-years this month along with giving them a $15k bar stipend. And workflow has been solid. It's maybe not a 10/10 (no word on fall bonuses yet) but it's at least a solid 6.

Yeah i think it's got to be limited to the year preceding the Vault survey -- no punishing for years-old old grievances. Fuck Latham for sure tho

I agree that this site isn't what it used to, but compared to places like /r/lawschool threads can actually build over time. I still think this is a good idea, but when North mentioned bumping when surveys go out, we should include in that posting to /r/lawschool, facebook groups you are in, etc.

On topic, every firm listed viewtopic.php?f=23&t=304915 who cut pay (and hasn't made whole) should be listed under zeroes.

LBJ's Hair wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:25 pm

if there's an active legal FB/Reddit that isn't filled with TTT students posting memes and whining about test anxiety please point me to it, bc otherwise best we got is TLS

I was thinking the same thing; this is all we have, sadly.