You too could have shit grades, go to a T3, and still end up in the DOJ eventually

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BansheeScream

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Re: You too could have shit grades, go to a T3, and still end up in the DOJ eventually

Post by BansheeScream » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:40 pm

Also worth noting that you were personable enough slash competent enough to be staffed on and handle 25 jury trials as an ADA. You can definitely work on trial skills but there is a level of trial advocacy ability that is intuitive and some people don't have that. A lot of law students / potential law students lack self awareness and think they're going to be the greatest trial attorneys in history because they were "so good at arguing" growing up. Just another factor to consider.

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Re: You too could have shit grades, go to a T3, and still end up in the DOJ eventually

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:42 pm

andythefir wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:42 pm
There’s also some sleight of hand in lumping all DOJ employment together. You won’t find many Yale grads on the border USAO offices, and you won’t find many T3 grads in SDNY. AUSA positions Del Rio, Laredo, etc are completely different beasts from honors DOJ hires, AUSA slots in NDCA/NDIL/competitive districts, and so on. Obviously happy for OP, and the moral of the story is competent, hard-working folks will land on their feet. But don’t get your hopes up for DOJ honors from a T3.
Are border town AUSA positions really that much less competitive than SDNY/NDIL/etc.? I would've assumed that the border town offices do interesting work (narcotics, cartels, etc.) that would attract a lot of high-level applicants. What sort of credentials do the border offices generally look for?

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Re: You too could have shit grades, go to a T3, and still end up in the DOJ eventually

Post by sparty99 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:01 pm

caveman2 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:29 pm
I'm posting just to give hope to those who are feeling hopeless.

I graduated in 2014 from a T3 school with really terrible grades, no journal, no moot court. I had no job lined up after graduation but eventually ended up working as a landman for nine months at a really horrible company and was miserable, but hey it was a job. I quit that job and moved back in with my parents and studied for the PA bar, passed, and ended up getting a clerkship for a judge in a very small county. The pay was nil but I loved that job. Did that for almost two years, made a good impression, and then got a job as an ADA in a bigger neighboring county. Did that for another two years and got an insane 25-30 jury trials under my belt (both misdemeanors and felonies, always solo, no second chair), but was overworked and incredibly underpaid. I segued that into a job that I just started in the DOJ at the GS-13 level in an awesome medium-sized city, will jump to GS-14 after one year. I won't ever have to work more than 40 hours a week and am making a comfortable six figures.

I just feel like most of the stuff I read on here is very gloom and doom if you don't go to a T14, don't make law review, don't make moot court, aren't top 10% etc. I'm here to tell you that work ethic, hustle, and the willingness to go where the opportunities are matter much more in the long run. Don't let anyone make you believe otherwise.
How much are you making?

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Re: You too could have shit grades, go to a T3, and still end up in the DOJ eventually

Post by 12YrsAnAssociate » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:42 pm
Are border town AUSA positions really that much less competitive than SDNY/NDIL/etc.? I would've assumed that the border town offices do interesting work (narcotics, cartels, etc.) that would attract a lot of high-level applicants. What sort of credentials do the border offices generally look for?
The border cases get rote and sad. Illegal reentries and destitute Mexican folks paid to bring dope across the border. Note NDIL (I believe) swooped in on the El Chapo trial. So the juicy ones don't necessarily go to the border districts at all.

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Re: You too could have shit grades, go to a T3, and still end up in the DOJ eventually

Post by caveman2 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:50 pm

HillandHollow wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:11 pm
caveman2 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:29 pm
I'm posting just to give hope to those who are feeling hopeless.

I graduated in 2014 from a T3 school with really terrible grades, no journal, no moot court. I had no job lined up after graduation but eventually ended up working as a landman for nine months at a really horrible company and was miserable, but hey it was a job. I quit that job and moved back in with my parents and studied for the PA bar, passed, and ended up getting a clerkship for a judge in a very small county. [...]

I just feel like most of the stuff I read on here is very gloom and doom if you don't go to a T14, don't make law review, don't make moot court, aren't top 10% etc. I'm here to tell you that work ethic, hustle, and the willingness to go where the opportunities are matter much more in the long run. Don't let anyone make you believe otherwise.
OP, to what do you attribute your ability to get that clerkship? Why would that judge give you a chance, given your resume at that point?
It was a tiny county of 60k people where no one wanted to work and the pay was like 32k.

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Re: You too could have shit grades, go to a T3, and still end up in the DOJ eventually

Post by caveman2 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:54 pm

sparty99 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:01 pm
caveman2 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:29 pm
I'm posting just to give hope to those who are feeling hopeless.

I graduated in 2014 from a T3 school with really terrible grades, no journal, no moot court. I had no job lined up after graduation but eventually ended up working as a landman for nine months at a really horrible company and was miserable, but hey it was a job. I quit that job and moved back in with my parents and studied for the PA bar, passed, and ended up getting a clerkship for a judge in a very small county. The pay was nil but I loved that job. Did that for almost two years, made a good impression, and then got a job as an ADA in a bigger neighboring county. Did that for another two years and got an insane 25-30 jury trials under my belt (both misdemeanors and felonies, always solo, no second chair), but was overworked and incredibly underpaid. I segued that into a job that I just started in the DOJ at the GS-13 level in an awesome medium-sized city, will jump to GS-14 after one year. I won't ever have to work more than 40 hours a week and am making a comfortable six figures.

I just feel like most of the stuff I read on here is very gloom and doom if you don't go to a T14, don't make law review, don't make moot court, aren't top 10% etc. I'm here to tell you that work ethic, hustle, and the willingness to go where the opportunities are matter much more in the long run. Don't let anyone make you believe otherwise.
How much are you making?
93k for the first year then jump to 113k. Couple that with the 40 hour work week and having my 250k in student loans forgiven in 6 years, and I'm very pleased.

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Re: You too could have shit grades, go to a T3, and still end up in the DOJ eventually

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:42 pm
Are border town AUSA positions really that much less competitive than SDNY/NDIL/etc.? I would've assumed that the border town offices do interesting work (narcotics, cartels, etc.) that would attract a lot of high-level applicants. What sort of credentials do the border offices generally look for?
I used to work in one of these. Honestly, the credentials aren't that much different than where I work now and what people generally describe. People either came from biglaw with the traditional biglaw credentials (T14 + federal clerkship), or from state prosecution with lots of felony jury trial experience. There were a couple of disillusioned PDs with lots of felony jury trial experience and some prior JAG. The office probably leaned much more on state prosecutors than major metro districts do, but that's in part because the legal markets are fairly small and so local prosecutors can work connections (when we'd hire a local prosecutor half the office already knew them from working in state court with them), and in part because the office wanted people to stick around and the biglaw folks were much less likely to. It's true that there weren't, like, a lot of Yale grads with COA clerkships floating about (but frankly I don't think there are a ton of those at most USAOs). But there were certainly people with traditional biglaw credentials who worked there - mostly to get their foot in the door, and, frankly, a lot of them end up moving offices after a few years.

The big issue with the border districts is the volume. You do get an awful lot of the same kinds of cases over and over. After a few years of that you can move on to other more complex cases (violent crime, complex drug investigations, white collar, etc.), but white collar in, say, El Paso isn't quite the same as white collar in Manhattan. But then, I'd say that the majority of offices are in places where you're not getting Manhattan white collar work.

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Re: You too could have shit grades, go to a T3, and still end up in the DOJ eventually

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:10 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:42 pm
Are border town AUSA positions really that much less competitive than SDNY/NDIL/etc.? I would've assumed that the border town offices do interesting work (narcotics, cartels, etc.) that would attract a lot of high-level applicants. What sort of credentials do the border offices generally look for?
I used to work in one of these. Honestly, the credentials aren't that much different than where I work now and what people generally describe. People either came from biglaw with the traditional biglaw credentials (T14 + federal clerkship), or from state prosecution with lots of felony jury trial experience. There were a couple of disillusioned PDs with lots of felony jury trial experience and some prior JAG. The office probably leaned much more on state prosecutors than major metro districts do, but that's in part because the legal markets are fairly small and so local prosecutors can work connections (when we'd hire a local prosecutor half the office already knew them from working in state court with them), and in part because the office wanted people to stick around and the biglaw folks were much less likely to. It's true that there weren't, like, a lot of Yale grads with COA clerkships floating about (but frankly I don't think there are a ton of those at most USAOs). But there were certainly people with traditional biglaw credentials who worked there - mostly to get their foot in the door, and, frankly, a lot of them end up moving offices after a few years.

The big issue with the border districts is the volume. You do get an awful lot of the same kinds of cases over and over. After a few years of that you can move on to other more complex cases (violent crime, complex drug investigations, white collar, etc.), but white collar in, say, El Paso isn't quite the same as white collar in Manhattan. But then, I'd say that the majority of offices are in places where you're not getting Manhattan white collar work.
In San Diego, something like 95% of the cases are border cases. So only a handful get to "move on" to more complex cases. It's why I've never applied to be an AUSA here.

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Re: You too could have shit grades, go to a T3, and still end up in the DOJ eventually

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:25 pm

There are more and less complex border cases, too. And just bc 95% are border cases doesn’t mean only 5% do anything besides border cases - usually more people do other stuff + border cases.

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Re: You too could have shit grades, go to a T3, and still end up in the DOJ eventually

Post by andythefir » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:22 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:10 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:42 pm
Are border town AUSA positions really that much less competitive than SDNY/NDIL/etc.? I would've assumed that the border town offices do interesting work (narcotics, cartels, etc.) that would attract a lot of high-level applicants. What sort of credentials do the border offices generally look for?
I used to work in one of these. Honestly, the credentials aren't that much different than where I work now and what people generally describe. People either came from biglaw with the traditional biglaw credentials (T14 + federal clerkship), or from state prosecution with lots of felony jury trial experience. There were a couple of disillusioned PDs with lots of felony jury trial experience and some prior JAG. The office probably leaned much more on state prosecutors than major metro districts do, but that's in part because the legal markets are fairly small and so local prosecutors can work connections (when we'd hire a local prosecutor half the office already knew them from working in state court with them), and in part because the office wanted people to stick around and the biglaw folks were much less likely to. It's true that there weren't, like, a lot of Yale grads with COA clerkships floating about (but frankly I don't think there are a ton of those at most USAOs). But there were certainly people with traditional biglaw credentials who worked there - mostly to get their foot in the door, and, frankly, a lot of them end up moving offices after a few years.

The big issue with the border districts is the volume. You do get an awful lot of the same kinds of cases over and over. After a few years of that you can move on to other more complex cases (violent crime, complex drug investigations, white collar, etc.), but white collar in, say, El Paso isn't quite the same as white collar in Manhattan. But then, I'd say that the majority of offices are in places where you're not getting Manhattan white collar work.
In San Diego, something like 95% of the cases are border cases. So only a handful get to "move on" to more complex cases. It's why I've never applied to be an AUSA here.
San Diego is also 1 way more pleasant than Laredo/Del Rio and 2 within SDCA, which means you have a natural pivot within California. It’s not crazy to go into SDTX with a plan to move to Houston or WDTX with a plan to go to San Antonio. But you’ll be competing with San Antonio/Houston biglaw/clerks, you’ll have to impress your bosses, etc.

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Re: You too could have shit grades, go to a T3, and still end up in the DOJ eventually

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:29 pm

Most of the people I know who change offices move halfway across the country, rather than hop within district.

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Re: You too could have shit grades, go to a T3, and still end up in the DOJ eventually

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:33 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:50 pm
Pennoyer v. Meh wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:46 pm
I mean, that's sort of a distortion of what people say. It's not that you can't, it's that the odds are stacked against you. Which they are. How many of your peers with your grades succeeded? Even your situation, where you "made a good impression", seems to have involved a lot of luck. And that's the problem. Things like this are fickle, and people at lower-ranked law schools, without honors or journal or moot court, are at a significant disadvantage. It's good to know that they can succeed, but they should be told that it isn't the likely outcome.
Making a good impression has absolutely nothing to do with luck, and that is the point.
Making a good impression has everything to do with luck if you aren’t a straight white guy into sports. As someone who doesn’t check off any of those boxes and didn’t go to a T14, sometimes you meet someone at a screener who you literally don’t rub the right way in that room. Sometimes you do check off all of those boxes and they’re in a bad mood or whatever. You’ll have more rooms/a better chance of making a good impression on at least one set of people if you go to a target school.

I disagree. There are many who aren't straight white bros who succeed by making a good impression through work quality. There are many white males who aren't doing so well. The "white people" race argument is such a copout, just because the industry tends to have many white males and results based on pedigree. OF COURSE there is a luck component as with everything else, but it's a small component.

N = 1, but I am an Asian male who rose through the ranks after being almost fired at my firm. I accepted my failures, learned from every single final draft vs mine, and made myself indispensable and to give myself leverage to ask for a lower billing quota AND a higher salary simultaneously. I had prepared a stack of material to use for negotiation, but they just said OK. I reckon I have the best "deal" at the firm (small firm so no lockstep).

I didn't play golf with my supervisors and rarely socialized with them. Although some of my coworkers buddied with them or showed interest, that just made them friends/acquaintances at best, with no bearing on career. The few times we talked in social settings, much of it was about how well I'm doing (paralegals would chime in too) and what they could do to keep me happy.

And don't give me bullshit about "model minorities" or being an Uncle Tom. If working hard and proving value and learning how to negotiate instead of accepting what's handed down is being a model anything, I encourage people to be model scouts themselves. Rather you be successful than a victim of your own self-neglect.

Great story OP. I realize the odds are stacked against you in that situation, but it's not impossible either. I also had shit grades (albeit from a T1 school) and a mismatched undergrad degree, but you have to do unconventional things (like getting my own client to prove the skills) if you want to compete with pedigree.

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Re: You too could have shit grades, go to a T3, and still end up in the DOJ eventually

Post by nixy » Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:15 pm

Anecdotes don’t disprove the general trend. Of course individuals (whether this means other-than-white males or people from TTT schools) can succeed, but that doesn’t mean that collectively, there aren’t barriers stacked against them that other people (white dudes or T14ers) don’t experience. And plenty of white dudes/T14ers fail, but again, that doesn’t mean they don’t have some built-in advantages, it just means they didn’t fail because of the barriers others face that they didn’t.

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Re: You too could have shit grades, go to a T3, and still end up in the DOJ eventually

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:45 pm

nixy wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:15 pm
Anecdotes don’t disprove the general trend. Of course individuals (whether this means other-than-white males or people from TTT schools) can succeed, but that doesn’t mean that collectively, there aren’t barriers stacked against them that other people (white dudes or T14ers) don’t experience. And plenty of white dudes/T14ers fail, but again, that doesn’t mean they don’t have some built-in advantages, it just means they didn’t fail because of the barriers others face that they didn’t.

I agree to an extent. I certainly admit that my n=1 story is just one anecdote. While I recognize the existence of systemic disadvantages (however little or great they might be), I just prefer not to waste time comparing myself or agonizing over things I can't change.

Further adding to my frustration with circlejerking over equality issues is how we are all quick to pronounce on these matters but accept it in the end anyway. I recently listened in on a CLE webinar about increasing diversity in a particular field, and there was no solution given. The presenters just rambled on about the potential existence of these issues and how it shouldn't be this way. But what about the possibility that certain people are simply more interested or tend to go into certain fields? Not everything needs to be equalized. If someone wants to pursue something, they should just do it instead of asking others to.

Sorry, I feel like I'm getting a bit off topic.

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Re: You too could have shit grades, go to a T3, and still end up in the DOJ eventually

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:37 pm

The”white dude” being systematically advantaged trope also makes no sense as a blanket statement.

First, certain parts of this country have POC as the majority race, e.g. Los Angeles. Second, a “white dude” could have all the disadvantages facing POC. They could be a first generation immigrant (legal or not) who started out with no property, no knowledge of the language, no idea of the culture, no help from any family because they came here alone, et cetera. A white immigrant starting out in Los Angeles could, in effect, be substantially similiar to a POC in their struggles.

This false dichotomy between white people and POC only fuels divisiveness. How about we take a look at the characteristics of the class that disadvantage them rather than the status of a majority of those class members?

Of course systematic disadvantages exist as to a majority of POC making the general principle sound, but to say that such disadvantages are a primary factor in every case - and to discount personal autonomy all together in every case - is a bit irrational (i.e., a political proposition).

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Re: You too could have shit grades, go to a T3, and still end up in the DOJ eventually

Post by nixy » Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:37 pm
The”white dude” being systematically advantaged trope also makes no sense as a blanket statement.

First, certain parts of this country have POC as the majority race, e.g. Los Angeles. Second, a “white dude” could have all the disadvantages facing POC. They could be a first generation immigrant (legal or not) who started out with no property, no knowledge of the language, no idea of the culture, no help from any family because they came here alone, et cetera. A white immigrant starting out in Los Angeles could, in effect, be substantially similiar to a POC in their struggles.

This false dichotomy between white people and POC only fuels divisiveness. How about we take a look at the characteristics of the class that disadvantage them rather than the status of a majority of those class members?

Of course systematic disadvantages exist as to a majority of POC making the general principle sound, but to say that such disadvantages are a primary factor in every case - and to discount personal autonomy all together in every case - is a bit irrational (i.e., a political proposition).
No one has claimed that white people are all systematically advantaged, just that unlike POC, they’re *not* disadvantaged because of their race. Many POC have plenty of economic advantages that plenty of white people don’t, but that doesn’t erase the impact of race on their lives. Race affects even rich POC/poor whites.

Equally, no one has claimed that such disadvantages are a primary factor in every case and that no one has any personal autonomy.

It’s just that there are still limits to personal autonomy (for everyone).

And to the n=1 anecdote post two above this, I totally get what you say about not wasting time agonizing over it, and don’t mean to tell you (or anyone) how they should be negotiating this. Your life, absolutely up to you to decide how you want to deal with it. And yeah, people are shit at coming up with solutions. I get a little suspicious of the idea that people just want to go into different fields when it’s arguments like “POC just don’t *want* to lead law firms!” or “women just like the jobs that happen to pay less better!” which are convenient for justifying the status quo (but that said, I also know a lot of Black and Native people particularly who come from rough communities who want to go back and improve those communities, so there are a whole lot of factors at play and it’s all complicated).

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Re: You too could have shit grades, go to a T3, and still end up in the DOJ eventually

Post by marmot8 » Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:25 pm

caveman2 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:54 pm
sparty99 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:01 pm
caveman2 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:29 pm
I'm posting just to give hope to those who are feeling hopeless.

I graduated in 2014 from a T3 school with really terrible grades, no journal, no moot court. I had no job lined up after graduation but eventually ended up working as a landman for nine months at a really horrible company and was miserable, but hey it was a job. I quit that job and moved back in with my parents and studied for the PA bar, passed, and ended up getting a clerkship for a judge in a very small county. The pay was nil but I loved that job. Did that for almost two years, made a good impression, and then got a job as an ADA in a bigger neighboring county. Did that for another two years and got an insane 25-30 jury trials under my belt (both misdemeanors and felonies, always solo, no second chair), but was overworked and incredibly underpaid. I segued that into a job that I just started in the DOJ at the GS-13 level in an awesome medium-sized city, will jump to GS-14 after one year. I won't ever have to work more than 40 hours a week and am making a comfortable six figures.

I just feel like most of the stuff I read on here is very gloom and doom if you don't go to a T14, don't make law review, don't make moot court, aren't top 10% etc. I'm here to tell you that work ethic, hustle, and the willingness to go where the opportunities are matter much more in the long run. Don't let anyone make you believe otherwise.
How much are you making?
93k for the first year then jump to 113k. Couple that with the 40 hour work week and having my 250k in student loans forgiven in 6 years, and I'm very pleased.
Sounds terrible to me but glad you’re happy.

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Re: You too could have shit grades, go to a T3, and still end up in the DOJ eventually

Post by nealric » Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:36 am

MOD NOTE: Please refrain from discussing the merits of AA in this thread.

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Re: You too could have shit grades, go to a T3, and still end up in the DOJ eventually

Post by caveman2 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:40 pm

I feel like this thread went way off topic. In my own personal situation, I have never felt like either my race or gender played any part in anything that has happened to me, whether advantageous or disadvantageous. You can argue that point if you want, but that's been my perception of my own experience.

I'm not trying to argue that my story doesn't mean "the odds aren't stacked against you"-- I feel like those accusing me of this are completely missing the point of the post. The point was, regardless of the direness of your own situation, you WILL achieve SOME level of success at SOME POINT if you:

1. Work hard;
2. Keep at it long enough; and
3. Be willing to go where the opportunities are when they arise.

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Re: You too could have shit grades, go to a T3, and still end up in the DOJ eventually

Post by sparty99 » Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:17 am

caveman2 wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:40 pm
I feel like this thread went way off topic. In my own personal situation, I have never felt like either my race or gender played any part in anything that has happened to me, whether advantageous or disadvantageous. You can argue that point if you want, but that's been my perception of my own experience.

I'm not trying to argue that my story doesn't mean "the odds aren't stacked against you"-- I feel like those accusing me of this are completely missing the point of the post. The point was, regardless of the direness of your own situation, you WILL achieve SOME level of success at SOME POINT if you:

1. Work hard;
2. Keep at it long enough; and
3. Be willing to go where the opportunities are when they arise.
I don't think a job at the doj is that special and would assume that they hire from T2 despite grades.

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Re: You too could have shit grades, go to a T3, and still end up in the DOJ eventually

Post by caveman2 » Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:16 am

sparty99 wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:17 am
caveman2 wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:40 pm
I feel like this thread went way off topic. In my own personal situation, I have never felt like either my race or gender played any part in anything that has happened to me, whether advantageous or disadvantageous. You can argue that point if you want, but that's been my perception of my own experience.

I'm not trying to argue that my story doesn't mean "the odds aren't stacked against you"-- I feel like those accusing me of this are completely missing the point of the post. The point was, regardless of the direness of your own situation, you WILL achieve SOME level of success at SOME POINT if you:

1. Work hard;
2. Keep at it long enough; and
3. Be willing to go where the opportunities are when they arise.
I don't think a job at the doj is that special and would assume that they hire from T2 despite grades.
I don't think anyone would consider our beloved Michigan State a T2, but maybe you hold it in especially high esteem.

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Re: You too could have shit grades, go to a T3, and still end up in the DOJ eventually

Post by sparty99 » Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:02 am

caveman2 wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:16 am
sparty99 wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:17 am
caveman2 wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:40 pm
I feel like this thread went way off topic. In my own personal situation, I have never felt like either my race or gender played any part in anything that has happened to me, whether advantageous or disadvantageous. You can argue that point if you want, but that's been my perception of my own experience.

I'm not trying to argue that my story doesn't mean "the odds aren't stacked against you"-- I feel like those accusing me of this are completely missing the point of the post. The point was, regardless of the direness of your own situation, you WILL achieve SOME level of success at SOME POINT if you:

1. Work hard;
2. Keep at it long enough; and
3. Be willing to go where the opportunities are when they arise.
I don't think a job at the doj is that special and would assume that they hire from T2 despite grades.
I don't think anyone would consider our beloved Michigan State a T2, but maybe you hold it in especially high esteem.
Not sure why you are bringing up that school as I did not attend it.

caveman2

New
Posts: 98
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:32 pm

Re: You too could have shit grades, go to a T3, and still end up in the DOJ eventually

Post by caveman2 » Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:41 pm

sparty99 wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:02 am
caveman2 wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:16 am
sparty99 wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:17 am
caveman2 wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:40 pm
I feel like this thread went way off topic. In my own personal situation, I have never felt like either my race or gender played any part in anything that has happened to me, whether advantageous or disadvantageous. You can argue that point if you want, but that's been my perception of my own experience.

I'm not trying to argue that my story doesn't mean "the odds aren't stacked against you"-- I feel like those accusing me of this are completely missing the point of the post. The point was, regardless of the direness of your own situation, you WILL achieve SOME level of success at SOME POINT if you:

1. Work hard;
2. Keep at it long enough; and
3. Be willing to go where the opportunities are when they arise.
I don't think a job at the doj is that special and would assume that they hire from T2 despite grades.
I don't think anyone would consider our beloved Michigan State a T2, but maybe you hold it in especially high esteem.
Not sure why you are bringing up that school as I did not attend it.
Yes you did, for undergrad.

JusticeSquee

Bronze
Posts: 108
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:29 pm

Re: You too could have shit grades, go to a T3, and still end up in the DOJ eventually

Post by JusticeSquee » Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:01 pm

caveman2 wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:41 pm
sparty99 wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:02 am
caveman2 wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:16 am
sparty99 wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:17 am
caveman2 wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:40 pm
I feel like this thread went way off topic. In my own personal situation, I have never felt like either my race or gender played any part in anything that has happened to me, whether advantageous or disadvantageous. You can argue that point if you want, but that's been my perception of my own experience.

I'm not trying to argue that my story doesn't mean "the odds aren't stacked against you"-- I feel like those accusing me of this are completely missing the point of the post. The point was, regardless of the direness of your own situation, you WILL achieve SOME level of success at SOME POINT if you:

1. Work hard;
2. Keep at it long enough; and
3. Be willing to go where the opportunities are when they arise.
I don't think a job at the doj is that special and would assume that they hire from T2 despite grades.
I don't think anyone would consider our beloved Michigan State a T2, but maybe you hold it in especially high esteem.
Not sure why you are bringing up that school as I did not attend it.
Yes you did, for undergrad.
Sparty is really sensitive about being outed lol

ConfusedNYer

New
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2016 5:45 pm

Re: You too could have shit grades, go to a T3, and still end up in the DOJ eventually

Post by ConfusedNYer » Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:43 am

RE: working as a border district AUSA - probably differs district to district but I clerked in a border district at a courthouse that had a heavy crimmigration docket:

1) They were desperate for bodies, I probably could have gone straight from law school -> clerkship -> AUSA, and if I had actually come from that state/region it would have been a sure thing.

2) Their legal work was frankly very unimpressive. I'm talking regular typos and mistakes in short briefings and very sloppy legal analysis. Maybe it is because they have such a busy caseload and defense counsel was usually as bad if not worse, but it was kind of crazy to see.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!


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