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I'm an incoming at a V10 in a non-NY/SF/DC major market. My Mandarin abilities only extend to speaking and comprehending spoken at best at an intermediate level. I'm seeing some recruiters post on LinkedIn regarding HK PE/M&A jobs that don't seem to have language requirements and am interested in possibly making a move to HK at some point, mostly for stacking cash early on in my career via COLA. I have a few questions that have been asked and answered before on TLS but wanted some up-to-date understanding of the situation in HK.

1. I know that the protests were pretty bad in 2019 and that may have caused a recession. Has the job market recovered or has it gotten worse? I see quite a bit of HK activity on my firm's website but mostly NASDAQ IPOs of tech or tech-adjacent companies.

2. How is the COLA situation? I remember reading something about how there's a reverse correlation btw Vault ranking and COLA, but I don't remember if that only applies to HK. I know COLA in generally is a dying trend, or am I wrong on that too? Specifically, I'm interested in the V10ish firms (K&E, LW, STB, Skadden, and DPW).

3. Is Mandarin required?

4. I've read that HK experience is not seen as being equal to US experience. If anyone has dealt with HK to US associates on the recruiting front or worked with such associates and can comment on whether this is true.

5. Is it still the situation that HK work is mostly debt-heavy offerings? I've heard that about London and maybe HK. Then I've also heard there are decent pockets of M&A work, which is my primary interest, but maybe that's not really a thing in HK.

6. Is it a bad career move to move to HK as a mid-level or at any point in my career if

a) I'm interested in making partner. That isn't to say that I will or that the odds are anything beyond miniscule--merely that I would at least like to maintain some illusion that I am on partner track as the default position for as long as I can keep it up; and

b) I would ultimately end up back in a non-NY/DC/SF market (don't high COL cities as a general rule.

Any help is appreciated. Thank you!

Also thinking about moving to Asia. As far as I know:

1. The protest is not a concern anymore since the government passed the National Security Law this year. HK is probably much safer than Atlanta and Chicago now.
2. V10 firms still provide COLA (between $70k~$90k I guess?). Some lower ranked firms also have that. But only for your first 4 years. I'm not sure if it's worth it because HK corporate associates generally bill 3,000 hours. But the personal income tax rate is only 15%. A mid-level associate in HK may make more than a junior partner here after tax.
3. They all speak perfect English, so Mandarin is not required. But you probably need to improve Mandarin skills if you want to make local friends.
4. That's correct. US associates usually get 1 or 2 years class cut when they relocate to HK. Because they believe US associates are less experienced than HK associates.
5. Not sure about this one.
6. Most of the partners at HK offices are Chinese, and the American ones were already made partner before they relocated to HK. I don't think it would be easier for you to make partner there. Well, Chinese clients prefer Chinese lawyers. Many of them just don't speak English. I can't imagine how an American partner can build a client base in China.

Hope this is helpful.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:53 pm

Also thinking about moving to Asia. As far as I know:

1. The protest is not a concern anymore since the government passed the National Security Law this year. HK is probably much safer than Atlanta and Chicago now.
2. V10 firms still provide COLA (between $70k~$90k I guess?). Some lower ranked firms also have that. But only for your first 4 years. I'm not sure if it's worth it because HK corporate associates generally bill 3,000 hours. But the personal income tax rate is only 15%. A mid-level associate in HK may make more than a junior partner here after tax.
3. They all speak perfect English, so Mandarin is not required. But you probably need to improve Mandarin skills if you want to make local friends.
4. That's correct. US associates usually get 1 or 2 years class cut when they relocate to HK. Because they believe US associates are less experienced than HK associates.
5. Not sure about this one.
6. Most of the partners at HK offices are Chinese, and the American ones were already made partner before they relocated to HK. I don't think it would be easier for you to make partner there. Well, Chinese clients prefer Chinese lawyers. Many of them just don't speak English. I can't imagine how an American partner can build a client base in China.

Hope this is helpful.

Unless, you know, you happen to disagree with the Chinese government about anything. Then it's pretty unsafe.

ETA: https://www.dw.com/en/chinas-actions-ri ... a-54410597

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:53 pm

1. The protest is not a concern anymore since the government passed the National Security Law this year. HK is probably much safer than Atlanta and Chicago now.

comment of the year lmao

polareagle wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:53 pm

Also thinking about moving to Asia. As far as I know:

1. The protest is not a concern anymore since the government passed the National Security Law this year. HK is probably much safer than Atlanta and Chicago now.
2. V10 firms still provide COLA (between $70k~$90k I guess?). Some lower ranked firms also have that. But only for your first 4 years. I'm not sure if it's worth it because HK corporate associates generally bill 3,000 hours. But the personal income tax rate is only 15%. A mid-level associate in HK may make more than a junior partner here after tax.
3. They all speak perfect English, so Mandarin is not required. But you probably need to improve Mandarin skills if you want to make local friends.
4. That's correct. US associates usually get 1 or 2 years class cut when they relocate to HK. Because they believe US associates are less experienced than HK associates.
5. Not sure about this one.
6. Most of the partners at HK offices are Chinese, and the American ones were already made partner before they relocated to HK. I don't think it would be easier for you to make partner there. Well, Chinese clients prefer Chinese lawyers. Many of them just don't speak English. I can't imagine how an American partner can build a client base in China.

Hope this is helpful.

Unless, you know, you happen to disagree with the Chinese government about anything. Then it's pretty unsafe.

ETA: https://www.dw.com/en/chinas-actions-ri ... a-54410597

Well, that's true. you can't talk shit about the government if you are doing business in China. That's the political correctness there. That's the rule. You must play by the rules right? But of course you can talk in private. Nobody really cares. If free speech is important to you, maybe China is not the best place to go.

Inb4 some asshats turns this thread into a political one (there are plenty of armchair US/China geopolitics experts on reddit/twitter, feel free to join them). Why are US associates seen as less experienced than their peers from HK? Is it just because they work more or because of other factors? I've always thought it's the other way around.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:40 pm

polareagle wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:53 pm

Also thinking about moving to Asia. As far as I know:

1. The protest is not a concern anymore since the government passed the National Security Law this year. HK is probably much safer than Atlanta and Chicago now.
2. V10 firms still provide COLA (between $70k~$90k I guess?). Some lower ranked firms also have that. But only for your first 4 years. I'm not sure if it's worth it because HK corporate associates generally bill 3,000 hours. But the personal income tax rate is only 15%. A mid-level associate in HK may make more than a junior partner here after tax.
3. They all speak perfect English, so Mandarin is not required. But you probably need to improve Mandarin skills if you want to make local friends.
4. That's correct. US associates usually get 1 or 2 years class cut when they relocate to HK. Because they believe US associates are less experienced than HK associates.
5. Not sure about this one.
6. Most of the partners at HK offices are Chinese, and the American ones were already made partner before they relocated to HK. I don't think it would be easier for you to make partner there. Well, Chinese clients prefer Chinese lawyers. Many of them just don't speak English. I can't imagine how an American partner can build a client base in China.

Hope this is helpful.

Unless, you know, you happen to disagree with the Chinese government about anything. Then it's pretty unsafe.

ETA: https://www.dw.com/en/chinas-actions-ri ... a-54410597

Well, that's true. you can't talk shit about the government if you are doing business in China. That's the political correctness there. That's the rule. You must play by the rules right? But of course you can talk in private. Nobody really cares. If free speech is important to you, maybe China is not the best place to go.

The point (as demonstrated better by the article I linked) is that part of the reason Hong Kong developed as one of the world's most important financial centers was precisely because it was not like the rest of China. Now that HK is becoming more like the rest of China, it's an open question whether it will continue to be such an important financial center.

Public free speech is gone in a matter of a few months--kind of a big deal that you're dismissing with a wave of your hand, but okay. Is the independent judiciary next? Because you need the predictability an independent judiciary provides to be a leading commercial center. That's a concern (among many others) going forward.

polareagle wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:40 pm

polareagle wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:53 pm

Also thinking about moving to Asia. As far as I know:

1. The protest is not a concern anymore since the government passed the National Security Law this year. HK is probably much safer than Atlanta and Chicago now.
2. V10 firms still provide COLA (between $70k~$90k I guess?). Some lower ranked firms also have that. But only for your first 4 years. I'm not sure if it's worth it because HK corporate associates generally bill 3,000 hours. But the personal income tax rate is only 15%. A mid-level associate in HK may make more than a junior partner here after tax.
3. They all speak perfect English, so Mandarin is not required. But you probably need to improve Mandarin skills if you want to make local friends.
4. That's correct. US associates usually get 1 or 2 years class cut when they relocate to HK. Because they believe US associates are less experienced than HK associates.
5. Not sure about this one.
6. Most of the partners at HK offices are Chinese, and the American ones were already made partner before they relocated to HK. I don't think it would be easier for you to make partner there. Well, Chinese clients prefer Chinese lawyers. Many of them just don't speak English. I can't imagine how an American partner can build a client base in China.

Hope this is helpful.

Unless, you know, you happen to disagree with the Chinese government about anything. Then it's pretty unsafe.

ETA: https://www.dw.com/en/chinas-actions-ri ... a-54410597

Well, that's true. you can't talk shit about the government if you are doing business in China. That's the political correctness there. That's the rule. You must play by the rules right? But of course you can talk in private. Nobody really cares. If free speech is important to you, maybe China is not the best place to go.

The point (as demonstrated better by the article I linked) is that part of the reason Hong Kong developed as one of the world's most important financial centers was precisely because it was not like the rest of China. Now that HK is becoming more like the rest of China, it's an open question whether it will continue to be such an important financial center.

Public free speech is gone in a matter of a few months--kind of a big deal that you're dismissing with a wave of your hand, but okay. Is the independent judiciary next? Because you need the predictability an independent judiciary provides to be a leading commercial center. That's a concern (among many others) going forward.

Well...I can't agree with your points. But I'm not gonna turn this thread into a political debate.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:58 pm

polareagle wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:40 pm

polareagle wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:53 pm

Also thinking about moving to Asia. As far as I know:

1. The protest is not a concern anymore since the government passed the National Security Law this year. HK is probably much safer than Atlanta and Chicago now.
2. V10 firms still provide COLA (between $70k~$90k I guess?). Some lower ranked firms also have that. But only for your first 4 years. I'm not sure if it's worth it because HK corporate associates generally bill 3,000 hours. But the personal income tax rate is only 15%. A mid-level associate in HK may make more than a junior partner here after tax.
3. They all speak perfect English, so Mandarin is not required. But you probably need to improve Mandarin skills if you want to make local friends.
4. That's correct. US associates usually get 1 or 2 years class cut when they relocate to HK. Because they believe US associates are less experienced than HK associates.
5. Not sure about this one.
6. Most of the partners at HK offices are Chinese, and the American ones were already made partner before they relocated to HK. I don't think it would be easier for you to make partner there. Well, Chinese clients prefer Chinese lawyers. Many of them just don't speak English. I can't imagine how an American partner can build a client base in China.

Hope this is helpful.

Unless, you know, you happen to disagree with the Chinese government about anything. Then it's pretty unsafe.

ETA: https://www.dw.com/en/chinas-actions-ri ... a-54410597

Well, that's true. you can't talk shit about the government if you are doing business in China. That's the political correctness there. That's the rule. You must play by the rules right? But of course you can talk in private. Nobody really cares. If free speech is important to you, maybe China is not the best place to go.

The point (as demonstrated better by the article I linked) is that part of the reason Hong Kong developed as one of the world's most important financial centers was precisely because it was not like the rest of China. Now that HK is becoming more like the rest of China, it's an open question whether it will continue to be such an important financial center.

Public free speech is gone in a matter of a few months--kind of a big deal that you're dismissing with a wave of your hand, but okay. Is the independent judiciary next? Because you need the predictability an independent judiciary provides to be a leading commercial center. That's a concern (among many others) going forward.

Well...I can't agree with your points. But I'm not gonna turn this thread into a political debate.

Agreed. Had a feeling this is where it's heading toward whenever s/he posted that link.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:58 pm

2. V10 firms still provide COLA (between $70k~$90k I guess?). Some lower ranked firms also have that. But only for your first 4 years. I'm not sure if it's worth it because HK corporate associates generally bill 3,000 hours. But the personal income tax rate is only 15%. A mid-level associate in HK may make more than a junior partner here after tax.

Hey, OP here, just a follow up to this question. Do you mean that all firms only provide COLA up to 4 years or only the lower-ranked ones? I also did not know that HK corp. is 3,000 a year. That's interesting. I'm in principle not against it as long as the work is good for skills/career development. Obviously, I have no idea what it's like to actually bill any hours yet.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:58 pm

4. That's correct. US associates usually get 1 or 2 years class cut when they relocate to HK. Because they believe US associates are less experienced than HK associates.

I've heard that backward, which is that HK to US often requires a class year cut, but I guess it's a situation where neither side of the pond recognizes experience from the other side in the same way. I don't strictly mind a cut to class year as it would give me more experience and keep me on biglaw salary. Do you know of any HK back to US transitions that you can comment on--whether it's requiring a hair cut on class year or partnership prospects in the US?

Anonymous because COLA info is subject to NDA.

1. The answer depends on your priority in life:
If you are someone who's probably never been to China but nonetheless has an irresistible impulse to openly criticize its government, and you value your ability to criticize the Chinese government above everything else in life, including your career and compensation, then please do not go to HK. You could end up in jail.
If you don't care much about Chinese politics, or are willing to limit Chinese political discussions to private conversations with close friends and family, then HK is a very, very safe place, so much so that you can take the subway without worrying about being bitten by rats or pushed into the rails by some random homeless psycho, and walk on the street in the middle of the night without worrying about tripping on smelly trash bags or getting robbed or shot.

2. As of early 2019, I am aware of the following COLA packages:
SullCrom, DPW, Skadden: 65K
Ropes: 100K
It's important to put COLA into the context of expenses, though. Real estate in HK is extremely expensive, more so than Manhattan, and private healthcare is costly too, although less expensive than the States. I don't live in HK, but I understand that HK private insurance does not typically cover pre-existing conditions, unlike the insurance plans here in the U.S. So if you have diabetes, asthma, etc., you have to pay out of pocket.

3. It depends on the roles. Most roles seem to require Mandarin skills.

4. I heard a few years ago that those who move from HK to US often took a class year cut. Someone who commented above me believed that the contrary was true, but that's not what I heard. Things could have changed.

5. Not sure, but my understanding is that there's substantial IPO and M&A activities in HK as well.

6. Not sure.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:58 pm

2. V10 firms still provide COLA (between $70k~$90k I guess?). Some lower ranked firms also have that. But only for your first 4 years. I'm not sure if it's worth it because HK corporate associates generally bill 3,000 hours. But the personal income tax rate is only 15%. A mid-level associate in HK may make more than a junior partner here after tax.

Hey, OP here, just a follow up to this question. Do you mean that all firms only provide COLA up to 4 years or only the lower-ranked ones? I also did not know that HK corp. is 3,000 a year. That's interesting. I'm in principle not against it as long as the work is good for skills/career development. Obviously, I have no idea what it's like to actually bill any hours yet.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:58 pm

4. That's correct. US associates usually get 1 or 2 years class cut when they relocate to HK. Because they believe US associates are less experienced than HK associates.

I've heard that backward, which is that HK to US often requires a class year cut, but I guess it's a situation where neither side of the pond recognizes experience from the other side in the same way. I don't strictly mind a cut to class year as it would give me more experience and keep me on biglaw salary. Do you know of any HK back to US transitions that you can comment on--whether it's requiring a hair cut on class year or partnership prospects in the US?

Agree on #4 - I have a number of friends/colleagues who relocated to HK and never heard of anyone getting a class year cut, unless they were changing their practice area. I have definitely seen associates taking class year cuts when they return to the US.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:40 pm

polareagle wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:53 pm

Also thinking about moving to Asia. As far as I know:

1. The protest is not a concern anymore since the government passed the National Security Law this year. HK is probably much safer than Atlanta and Chicago now.
2. V10 firms still provide COLA (between $70k~$90k I guess?). Some lower ranked firms also have that. But only for your first 4 years. I'm not sure if it's worth it because HK corporate associates generally bill 3,000 hours. But the personal income tax rate is only 15%. A mid-level associate in HK may make more than a junior partner here after tax.
3. They all speak perfect English, so Mandarin is not required. But you probably need to improve Mandarin skills if you want to make local friends.
4. That's correct. US associates usually get 1 or 2 years class cut when they relocate to HK. Because they believe US associates are less experienced than HK associates.
5. Not sure about this one.
6. Most of the partners at HK offices are Chinese, and the American ones were already made partner before they relocated to HK. I don't think it would be easier for you to make partner there. Well, Chinese clients prefer Chinese lawyers. Many of them just don't speak English. I can't imagine how an American partner can build a client base in China.

Hope this is helpful.

Unless, you know, you happen to disagree with the Chinese government about anything. Then it's pretty unsafe.

ETA: https://www.dw.com/en/chinas-actions-ri ... a-54410597

Well, that's true. you can't talk shit about the government if you are doing business in China. That's the political correctness there. That's the rule. You must play by the rules right? But of course you can talk in private. Nobody really cares. If free speech is important to you, maybe China is not the best place to go.

LOL - OP, do you care at all about free speech by any chance? If so, maybe you should reconsider HK (just maybe).

sms18 wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 02, 2020 5:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:40 pm

polareagle wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:53 pm

Also thinking about moving to Asia. As far as I know:

1. The protest is not a concern anymore since the government passed the National Security Law this year. HK is probably much safer than Atlanta and Chicago now.
2. V10 firms still provide COLA (between $70k~$90k I guess?). Some lower ranked firms also have that. But only for your first 4 years. I'm not sure if it's worth it because HK corporate associates generally bill 3,000 hours. But the personal income tax rate is only 15%. A mid-level associate in HK may make more than a junior partner here after tax.
3. They all speak perfect English, so Mandarin is not required. But you probably need to improve Mandarin skills if you want to make local friends.
4. That's correct. US associates usually get 1 or 2 years class cut when they relocate to HK. Because they believe US associates are less experienced than HK associates.
5. Not sure about this one.
6. Most of the partners at HK offices are Chinese, and the American ones were already made partner before they relocated to HK. I don't think it would be easier for you to make partner there. Well, Chinese clients prefer Chinese lawyers. Many of them just don't speak English. I can't imagine how an American partner can build a client base in China.

Hope this is helpful.

Unless, you know, you happen to disagree with the Chinese government about anything. Then it's pretty unsafe.

ETA: https://www.dw.com/en/chinas-actions-ri ... a-54410597

Well, that's true. you can't talk shit about the government if you are doing business in China. That's the political correctness there. That's the rule. You must play by the rules right? But of course you can talk in private. Nobody really cares. If free speech is important to you, maybe China is not the best place to go.

LOL - OP, do you care at all about free speech by any chance? If so, maybe you should reconsider HK (just maybe).

No, it is not important to me. I just wanna make money.

Political aside, there is the other language issue. Although most people in Hong Kong can speak Mandarin, that is not their preferred dialect. You'd be better off with Cantonese for that region.

Will a US associate (citizen, greencard holder) be subject to higher taxes, given one will need to pay HK local taxes and US taxes? The foreign income exclusion is about $110K - for a mid-level who is expected to bring in, say, $400K a year (including COLA), amounts above the exclusion will be taxed twice (with some sort of credits?) Anyone knows what the tax situation will look like for a mid-level? Thanks.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:04 pm

Will a US associate (citizen, greencard holder) be subject to higher taxes, given one will need to pay HK local taxes and US taxes? The foreign income exclusion is about $110K - for a mid-level who is expected to bring in, say, $400K a year (including COLA), amounts above the exclusion will be taxed twice (with some sort of credits?) Anyone knows what the tax situation will look like for a mid-level? Thanks.

I don’t have experience specifically with HK, but the basic way this works for US citizens residing/earning overseas is that you pay whatever tax is owed to the local jurisdiction, and then that is offset against your US tax liability. If you’re in a relatively high tax country (Europe/Australia) you’ll likely pay nothing to the US. If you’re in a low tax country (HK/UAE), you’ll pay the local rate and then you’ll also owe money to the US (i.e., the difference between what you paid to HK and your calculated US liability). Even in that scenario, you’ll do better than if you earned the equivalent money within the US because the foreign earned income exclusion will reduce your US liability somewhat. But the higher your income, the less of a difference the exclusion makes.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:58 pm

2. V10 firms still provide COLA (between $70k~$90k I guess?). Some lower ranked firms also have that. But only for your first 4 years. I'm not sure if it's worth it because HK corporate associates generally bill 3,000 hours. But the personal income tax rate is only 15%. A mid-level associate in HK may make more than a junior partner here after tax.

Hey, OP here, just a follow up to this question. Do you mean that all firms only provide COLA up to 4 years or only the lower-ranked ones? I also did not know that HK corp. is 3,000 a year. That's interesting. I'm in principle not against it as long as the work is good for skills/career development. Obviously, I have no idea what it's like to actually bill any hours yet.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:58 pm

4. That's correct. US associates usually get 1 or 2 years class cut when they relocate to HK. Because they believe US associates are less experienced than HK associates.

I've heard that backward, which is that HK to US often requires a class year cut, but I guess it's a situation where neither side of the pond recognizes experience from the other side in the same way. I don't strictly mind a cut to class year as it would give me more experience and keep me on biglaw salary. Do you know of any HK back to US transitions that you can comment on--whether it's requiring a hair cut on class year or partnership prospects in the US?

3,000 hours is the Asian norm. You may ask any Chinese associates at your firm. That's why they pay the COLA. The money and low taxes are good, but the life is miserable.

Asian biglaws are less structured. Partners put more responsibilities on you. You generally get more training and experience than the US associates. You can expect to lead a mid-sized IPO/M&A in the 3rd year. That's why they don't recognize US work experience.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:58 pm

2. V10 firms still provide COLA (between $70k~$90k I guess?). Some lower ranked firms also have that. But only for your first 4 years. I'm not sure if it's worth it because HK corporate associates generally bill 3,000 hours. But the personal income tax rate is only 15%. A mid-level associate in HK may make more than a junior partner here after tax.

Hey, OP here, just a follow up to this question. Do you mean that all firms only provide COLA up to 4 years or only the lower-ranked ones? I also did not know that HK corp. is 3,000 a year. That's interesting. I'm in principle not against it as long as the work is good for skills/career development. Obviously, I have no idea what it's like to actually bill any hours yet.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:58 pm

4. That's correct. US associates usually get 1 or 2 years class cut when they relocate to HK. Because they believe US associates are less experienced than HK associates.

I've heard that backward, which is that HK to US often requires a class year cut, but I guess it's a situation where neither side of the pond recognizes experience from the other side in the same way. I don't strictly mind a cut to class year as it would give me more experience and keep me on biglaw salary. Do you know of any HK back to US transitions that you can comment on--whether it's requiring a hair cut on class year or partnership prospects in the US?

3,000 hours is the Asian norm. You may ask any Chinese associates at your firm. That's why they pay the COLA. The money and low taxes are good, but the life is miserable.

Asian biglaws are less structured. Partners put more responsibilities on you. You generally get more training and experience than the US associates. You can expect to lead a mid-sized IPO/M&A in the 3rd year. That's why they don't recognize US work experience.

Partners putting more responsibilities on you earlier on doesn't always equate to "more training" (actually it can also be seen as getting less training, since, well, you're on your own and not being trained by anyone lol). What I've personally seen happen on Asia deals is that relatively more junior people end up being the lead lawyers on these deals because the clients are cheap (and will haggle over the fee) and partners will not want to get involved because they already know from experience that they won't get compensated for the time they spend on the deal.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:58 pm

2. V10 firms still provide COLA (between $70k~$90k I guess?). Some lower ranked firms also have that. But only for your first 4 years. I'm not sure if it's worth it because HK corporate associates generally bill 3,000 hours. But the personal income tax rate is only 15%. A mid-level associate in HK may make more than a junior partner here after tax.

Hey, OP here, just a follow up to this question. Do you mean that all firms only provide COLA up to 4 years or only the lower-ranked ones? I also did not know that HK corp. is 3,000 a year. That's interesting. I'm in principle not against it as long as the work is good for skills/career development. Obviously, I have no idea what it's like to actually bill any hours yet.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:58 pm

4. That's correct. US associates usually get 1 or 2 years class cut when they relocate to HK. Because they believe US associates are less experienced than HK associates.

I've heard that backward, which is that HK to US often requires a class year cut, but I guess it's a situation where neither side of the pond recognizes experience from the other side in the same way. I don't strictly mind a cut to class year as it would give me more experience and keep me on biglaw salary. Do you know of any HK back to US transitions that you can comment on--whether it's requiring a hair cut on class year or partnership prospects in the US?

3,000 hours is the Asian norm. You may ask any Chinese associates at your firm. That's why they pay the COLA. The money and low taxes are good, but the life is miserable.

Asian biglaws are less structured. Partners put more responsibilities on you. You generally get more training and experience than the US associates. You can expect to lead a mid-sized IPO/M&A in the 3rd year. That's why they don't recognize US work experience.

Really depends on practice area. No way one can get to 3K hours doing M&A in China market, and for this year most M&A folks are probably half of that (annualized basis).