ADHD Lawyers - Share Your Tips Forum

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gola20

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Re: ADHD Lawyers - Share Your Tips

Post by gola20 » Mon May 10, 2021 3:52 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 8:53 pm
I hate it, and I also feel a lot of (ridiculous) resentment towards my friends in regular white collar jobs who think we work the same hours but they are actually only doing the same 4-5 hours of actual work and then padding the rest with office small talk/busy work because they’re not required to bill their time. This is totally my fault for being in this (higher paid) career, obviously - in my better moments, I’m happy for them that they get to coast, haha. It’s just really frustrating/unmotivating to be in a field where efficiency means nothing and all anyone cares about is how many minutes you worked.
Haha, same here. I asked a friend how he manages at work and he basically said he only works when he feels like it. As a programmer no one knows how many hours he works. As long as he delivers everybody is happy.

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Re: ADHD Lawyers - Share Your Tips

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:29 pm

Hi,

Looking for some advice. I'm about to get off my parent's health insurance this year and will get on my firm's insurance. I haven't ever seeked mental health services before because my family is pretty ignorant in that regard. I intend to be checked for ADHD (which I strongly suspect I have) and sign up for some therapy sessions once I have my own insurance plan.

My question is: how expensive is this stuff? If I'm prescribed to medication or decide to get therapy sessions monthly, does it make sense to go for a more expensive health care plan, despite the steeper premiums? The more expensive plans will allow specialist visits for a $70 flat copay vs. 20% of cost after deductible threshold from the cheaper plan. Obviously this will probably depend on the healthcare provider / region, but curious if anyone has any general thoughts.

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Re: ADHD Lawyers - Share Your Tips

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Aug 30, 2021 5:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:29 pm
Hi,

Looking for some advice. I'm about to get off my parent's health insurance this year and will get on my firm's insurance. I haven't ever seeked mental health services before because my family is pretty ignorant in that regard. I intend to be checked for ADHD (which I strongly suspect I have) and sign up for some therapy sessions once I have my own insurance plan.

My question is: how expensive is this stuff? If I'm prescribed to medication or decide to get therapy sessions monthly, does it make sense to go for a more expensive health care plan, despite the steeper premiums? The more expensive plans will allow specialist visits for a $70 flat copay vs. 20% of cost after deductible threshold from the cheaper plan. Obviously this will probably depend on the healthcare provider / region, but curious if anyone has any general thoughts.
I have a psychiatrist and a therapist. Psychiatrist really just does medication management--I have like a 15-minute check-in with him every few months where he re-prescribes or adjusts my prescription dosage. My cost for those sessions tend to be $50 out-of-pocket with my shitty and cheap firm plan. The cost of picking up a monthly prescription is $25/month. I then also have a therapist (out-of-network) who specializes in teaching adults with ADHD how to exist as human beings. Really nuts and bolts stuff like "how to calendar your time," "how to organize your room," "how to feed yourself." I pay $250/month once a month out-of-pocket. I submit those receipts to insurance, but my out-of-network deductible is like $6k, so it doesn't do much.

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Re: ADHD Lawyers - Share Your Tips

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:50 pm

Recently diagnosed and about to start medication. Any tips? I'm mostly worried that I'll be productive for about a week and then I'll grow a tolerance and become my usual self.

I know this has been discussed before, but do you guys take it on the weekends?

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Re: ADHD Lawyers - Share Your Tips

Post by xiaoguami » Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:45 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:50 pm
Recently diagnosed and about to start medication. Any tips? I'm mostly worried that I'll be productive for about a week and then I'll grow a tolerance and become my usual self.

I know this has been discussed before, but do you guys take it on the weekends?
Out of fear of building a tolerance, I don't take it on days I don't have a full work day. I will take it when I'm doing something where I have to not be easily distracted that day, for example, if I have a lot of personal errands to do, or I'm hosting friends at my place and need to do stuff to prepare, or I'm traveling (oh god traveling).

Also just wanted to echo the people sad about getting diagnosed so late, I only got diagnosed and on medication this year and I'm almost 30. I did basically fine in school because I would just take easy test-only courses so no one ever suggested a diagnosis to me, but all my adult life I've messed up so many things in my personal life because it's just so hard for me to keep track of things. I've missed most flights I've booked because I'm always late, or I forget some important step in the check-in process, etc., including more than half of flights I had this year. And flights are extremely expensive and I was broke!!! Roommates grew to resent me because I'd leave the oven on, always forget my keys, stuff like that and I'd feel so bad. I would set multiple alarms each day to check that I had done certain basic life things, but then if a new task would come up I would forget to set an alarm for it. I never sought medical help because I had read so much about overdiagnosis of ADHD/abuse of medication and didn't want to shrug off personal responsibility by blaming "disease" instead of my own stupidity and disorganization. But then I got to the end of my rope as I was blowing deadlines at work, and even the very tiny dosage I'm on right now has helped significantly. It's not everything, I still have to discipline myself and I read books on how to focus etc. (I like Cal Newport's books) but ugh yes some relief.

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Re: ADHD Lawyers - Share Your Tips

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Feb 11, 2022 2:35 am

Bumping this thread. I’m so fucking bored with everything on my plate right now. Most assignments are medium-term and I’m at the point where I can’t do more than twenty or thirty seconds focus before getting distracted. I also feel like I need a massive mental push just getting to the point of starting tasks that I then get distracted from after thirty seconds. Medication isn’t doing much. It almost feels as if I’ve lost the ability to read the English language. Usually after 9 pm, I’m able to hyperfocus a bit. But I can’t just keep spending all day spinning my wheels just to position myself to be able to focus at night. Junior associate in litigation tasked with helping out with some extremely asinine discovery shit. Just at a loss and feeling like a moron. Idk if anyone has any advice.

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Re: ADHD Lawyers - Share Your Tips

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Feb 11, 2022 10:57 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Feb 11, 2022 2:35 am
Bumping this thread. I’m so fucking bored with everything on my plate right now. Most assignments are medium-term and I’m at the point where I can’t do more than twenty or thirty seconds focus before getting distracted. I also feel like I need a massive mental push just getting to the point of starting tasks that I then get distracted from after thirty seconds. Medication isn’t doing much. It almost feels as if I’ve lost the ability to read the English language. Usually after 9 pm, I’m able to hyperfocus a bit. But I can’t just keep spending all day spinning my wheels just to position myself to be able to focus at night. Junior associate in litigation tasked with helping out with some extremely asinine discovery shit. Just at a loss and feeling like a moron. Idk if anyone has any advice.
Something that helps me (COA law clerk) is getting started right away in the morning on a task. I find that if I give myself too much time to ease into the day, then that sorta relaxed approach sets the whole tone for an (unproductive) day.

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Re: ADHD Lawyers - Share Your Tips

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Feb 11, 2022 11:58 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Feb 11, 2022 2:35 am
Bumping this thread. I’m so fucking bored with everything on my plate right now. Most assignments are medium-term and I’m at the point where I can’t do more than twenty or thirty seconds focus before getting distracted. I also feel like I need a massive mental push just getting to the point of starting tasks that I then get distracted from after thirty seconds. Medication isn’t doing much. It almost feels as if I’ve lost the ability to read the English language. Usually after 9 pm, I’m able to hyperfocus a bit. But I can’t just keep spending all day spinning my wheels just to position myself to be able to focus at night. Junior associate in litigation tasked with helping out with some extremely asinine discovery shit. Just at a loss and feeling like a moron. Idk if anyone has any advice.
This is exactly how school/work have always been for me. It's impossible to convey to anyone who hasn't experienced it. It's incredibly lonely; I've felt like an idiot my whole life, always underperforming.

The medication doesn't *seem* to do much for me, but when I am not on for stretches my symptoms noticeably worse. I've found it takes time to get the full effects, a few weeks. In terms of habits, the only thing that seems to help me is getting up, taking the medication, showering, and getting "dressed for work" ASAP before sitting at my sparse, uncluttered desk, even if I'm WFH. It's like running a race - have to get on pace and keep going. The only thing I take breaks for is exercise; unfortunately, it's the only thing I can truly focus on and enjoy anymore and isn't always an option but does help a lot in terms of self-esteem and focus.

Curious if anyone has noticed a type of assignment that seems particularly troubling. My prior writing-heavy career and experience in law school made it clear to me that anything demanding extensive background research, long-form writing, etc. was a no-go. No lit for me.

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Re: ADHD Lawyers - Share Your Tips

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Feb 24, 2022 5:04 am

A lot of what's described in this thread has applied to me throughout law school. I procrastinate to a degree that is simply unreasonable. Skip class for a month and half to learn the material within two weeks of finals. Spend the majority of the day lying around, sometimes feeling blue. I've wondered sometimes about whether what I am experiencing is depression. Never considered it could be ADHD.

To be honest. I kinda figured anyone that's not a type A "I live for school" type of person procrastinates in law school. Maybe even has a difficult time focusing (I know I do). I hope this post doesn't come off as ignorant. Genuinely curious about signs of ADHD vs. depression or mere procrastination. Based on the posts about medication, seems many of you are diagnosed with ADHD, but would love insights. Thanks.

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Re: ADHD Lawyers - Share Your Tips

Post by mwells_56 » Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:17 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Feb 24, 2022 5:04 am
A lot of what's described in this thread has applied to me throughout law school. I procrastinate to a degree that is simply unreasonable. Skip class for a month and half to learn the material within two weeks of finals. Spend the majority of the day lying around, sometimes feeling blue. I've wondered sometimes about whether what I am experiencing is depression. Never considered it could be ADHD.

To be honest. I kinda figured anyone that's not a type A "I live for school" type of person procrastinates in law school. Maybe even has a difficult time focusing (I know I do). I hope this post doesn't come off as ignorant. Genuinely curious about signs of ADHD vs. depression or mere procrastination. Based on the posts about medication, seems many of you are diagnosed with ADHD, but would love insights. Thanks.
The two can be related. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkXpcs_an80&t=2071s

First time I went to a psychiatrist for ADHD he said that if Adderall didn't work that sometimes SSRIs can work instead.

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Re: ADHD Lawyers - Share Your Tips

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Feb 24, 2022 12:17 pm

Yeah, I’ve seen discussions about how people think they procrastinate because they’re depressed/anxious, but if you have ADHD and can’t focus/get things done, the procrastination causes the depression/anxiety. I’m sure there’s feedback between the two as well.

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Re: ADHD Lawyers - Share Your Tips

Post by Anonymous User » Tue May 24, 2022 11:23 pm

Brand new SA here at a V10. How can I best use my assistant (or other people)? I'd like to use the summer to experiment/figure out systems that work for me, so that I'm not floundering once I start for real.

Some thoughts so far:
  • I'm an externalizer and find it helpful to talk through things—especially planning and breaking down tasks into bite-size pieces. Is it reasonable to get help in this way? From whom?
  • I live and die by my calendar, but task lists have been harder for me to use consistently. What's worked for you, and how can I work with my assistant to help me keep the system working?
  • How much can I tell my assistant or coworkers? Is being up front about ADHD likely to backfire? Being up front about specific weak areas?

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Re: ADHD Lawyers - Share Your Tips

Post by Anonymous User » Tue May 24, 2022 11:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue May 24, 2022 11:23 pm
Brand new SA here at a V10. How can I best use my assistant (or other people)? I'd like to use the summer to experiment/figure out systems that work for me, so that I'm not floundering once I start for real.

Some thoughts so far:
  • I'm an externalizer and find it helpful to talk through things—especially planning and breaking down tasks into bite-size pieces. Is it reasonable to get help in this way? From whom?
  • I live and die by my calendar, but task lists have been harder for me to use consistently. What's worked for you, and how can I work with my assistant to help me keep the system working?
  • How much can I tell my assistant or coworkers? Is being up front about ADHD likely to backfire? Being up front about specific weak areas?
Do not tell your assistant or co-workers about your ADHD during your summer associate summer. The world we live in is not ideal and, consciously or not, people may develop negative associations with you if you're open about this.

The summer associate summer is low stakes. For better or for worse, it is unlikely that there will be any situation in which you are solely responsible for some big important thing where there will be grave consequences if you fuck it up. Plenty of summer associates barely do any work or do bad work and get offers. Absent extraordinary circumstances, it's a clean slate once you begin for real in the fall after 3L.

You are presumably an intelligent person who goes to a good law school and did somewhat well there. Hence, why you got an offer to summer at your firm. You aren't going to be bombarded with tons of work, overlapping deadlines, and/or different people in the chain-of-command telling you conflicting things about assignments, and the like. (That will all happen once you start as a full-time first-year after 3L). However you've managed law school so far should more or less work during the summer. Save the real strategizing around your ADHD for when you start for real as a first-year.

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Re: ADHD Lawyers - Share Your Tips

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Sep 28, 2022 6:22 pm

Just want to vent and say fuck ADHD. Despite medication, I’m sitting here watching myself ruin my career. KNOWING the consequences isn’t even enough to get my pathetic self to work. I’m going to look back and regret so much, and I don’t seem to care.

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Re: ADHD Lawyers - Share Your Tips

Post by ukjobsonwetton » Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:05 pm

There was a highly publicized meta-study 2 months ago showing that all we thought we knew about depression and SSRIs may be wrong. Don't despair. Just look at Gates, Jobs and Musk. NYU is currently doing cutting edge research in the field. Look into it. Don't be so hard on yourself.

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Re: ADHD Lawyers - Share Your Tips

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Oct 16, 2022 6:12 pm

gola20 wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 3:52 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 8:53 pm
I hate it, and I also feel a lot of (ridiculous) resentment towards my friends in regular white collar jobs who think we work the same hours but they are actually only doing the same 4-5 hours of actual work and then padding the rest with office small talk/busy work because they’re not required to bill their time. This is totally my fault for being in this (higher paid) career, obviously - in my better moments, I’m happy for them that they get to coast, haha. It’s just really frustrating/unmotivating to be in a field where efficiency means nothing and all anyone cares about is how many minutes you worked.
Haha, same here. I asked a friend how he manages at work and he basically said he only works when he feels like it. As a programmer no one knows how many hours he works. As long as he delivers everybody is happy.
So this this is a counter-example. One "tip" that worked for me for so long was taking weekends off medication (adderall) and taking half-doses on easier days, like doc review... however, I'm pretty certain I'm about to get a serious talk about why I move at 25% the pace of other attorneys on the same document sets. Anyone have advice on how to explain myself without divulging being on meds?

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Re: ADHD Lawyers - Share Your Tips

Post by Chubbyleaous » Mon Oct 17, 2022 7:09 am

To above Anonymous
Don't talk to any co-workers about your med issues. It will come back to bite you. A prior boss told me if you want a friend at the office buy a dog.

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Re: ADHD Lawyers - Share Your Tips

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:20 pm

Just found this thread and have to share that as a senior lit associate with a brief soft-due on Monday my non-diagnosed ADHD brain decided it was a great time to read Catching Fire cover to cover. I read it as fast as I could (in like 6 hours) and worked on the brief until like 9pm to get it done. Ugh. I hate myself for doing this but I can't stop myself either. I thought I was just lazy and undisciplined my whole life. But everything ITT resonates so hard, I honestly cried. Set up an appointment to see my doc so I can get a referral and get this taken care of.

Strategies that have worked for me: using focus mode on my android phone to turn off apps and notifications (easy to turn off, but sometimes I can get into hyperfocus mode and forget about my phone because it isn't dinging every few minutes and it tells me how long ive been in focus mode and when i have the inclination to turn off focus mode and see it's only been on for 5 minutes the guilt makes me leave it on); paper to-do list that I write small tasks on and get to check off (so satisfying); allowing myself to do admin tasks when my brain suddenly decides I NEED to organize emails/enter time/etc. before I can tackle the big stuff; working in the evening/night because I can focus better when the day is about to end and I realize I have nothing to show for it and have deadlines looming.

Strategies that have not worked: telling my husband I think I have ADHD (he told me I don't have ADHD because I would have known by now, I'm 30s, and high achieving)

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Re: ADHD Lawyers - Share Your Tips

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Oct 20, 2022 11:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:20 pm
Strategies that have not worked: telling my husband I think I have ADHD (he told me I don't have ADHD because I would have known by now, I'm 30s, and high achieving)
I had a similar experience with my husband (and don’t even get me started on my boomer mom). I kind of saw where he was coming from because I did, and sometimes still do, question whether I *actually* have ADHD or if I’m just a POS. However, because I’ve been on medication for years now AND have obsessively read about ADHD in adults, both of us have become more aware of my (presumably) ADHD-related behaviors, and I think he pretty much buys it at this point. I feel you, though - realizing there was something that explained so many of my worst qualities completely blew my mind, and it was hard for me to adjust to the fact that no one else was that interested even if they were supportive. I think it’s just hard for “normal” people to conceptualize what ADHD feels like, especially if you appear to have your shit together most of the time.

Also, I could’ve written your Catching Fire story myself, I truly cannot count the number of times I’ve done something like that. I’ve gotten better at recognizing that I’m prioritizing something that’s objectively not important, but I still often can’t stop myself.

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Re: ADHD Lawyers - Share Your Tips

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Oct 24, 2022 10:27 am

Has anyone ITT used meds other than Adderall? Adderall worked for me in college and law school but I find that it's less helpful as a working adult.

My problem is that when I use Adderall it doesn't really stop me from getting distracted, it just makes the work I do between the distractions more efficient. If anything, the distractions I fall into tend to last longer than when I'm non-medicated.

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Re: ADHD Lawyers - Share Your Tips

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Nov 17, 2022 9:05 am

Ritalin might as well have been sugar pills for me.

I have found Adderal to work best when I do an xr in morning and a half dose regular after lunch. Strong coffees through the day for a little extra kick

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Re: ADHD Lawyers - Share Your Tips

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:00 am

I am in-house and my task list can pile up on me. With ADHD I have been guilty of freaking out about all the tasks at hand and not doing anything. I write out my list on paper, there is something satisfying about checking off a box from a written list. I do have formal trackers online (for the sake of sharing my work with my team/coverage and updating those is the bane of my existence).

I also echo others who listen to music for white noise. I couldn't tell you what I am listening to when I get into a zone, but I'm locked in and that's what matters.

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Re: ADHD Lawyers - Share Your Tips

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:05 am

ADD lawyer with substantial experience and a senior-level position here.

Being a little older than most of you guys and gals, ADD and/or ADHD were not well-recognized diagnoses while I was in high school. They caught on by my college years but by then it was too late to help me, and I had managed to figure out my own self-coping skills by and large. Mind you, I almost flunked out of high school. And, I had some less than 1.0 GPA semesters in college, which eliminated my chances of getting into a T20 law school despite a GPA improvement in my last 2 years. I also got no accommodations for the LSAT. (I didn't know to ask. I might not have gotten any if asked).

But fuck all that. I made it anyway and enjoy a very successful career. I'm a well-respected trial lawyer and appellate lawyer in a well-credentialed job that carries a lot of weight. It's just that my brain works differently than most of my lawyer colleagues. I have adapted accordingly. Here are a few ways I work that maybe other lawyers don't:

* As a litigator, I am obsessively maniacal about managing my deadlines and calendaring issues. I'm not saying I yell at staff or treat secretaries rudely. But I do have extremely high standards for them, and I micro-manage their habits, using polite corrections when I notice errors. I am very particular about the way things are calendared, and also insist on calendaring reminder notifications ahead of deadlines.

* I could not be capable of practicing in a boring practice area. The cases need to be fun and interesting. That's why I handle cases involving constitutional law and civil rights, along with various other cool stuff. This point is not consistent with private practice, for the most part. From my perspective, if you are ADHD or ADD and you're therefore in danger of getting easily bored, you need to get the hell out of private practice where you will be expected to negotiate construction contracts, analyze transactions, and other vomit-inducing boring crap. Focus your career on government, law enforcement, become a public defender in criminal law, non-profits, environmental public interest groups, human rights organizations, think tanks, and generally anything that is interesting.

* I tend not to sit down and read through a 250-page deposition transcript like some other lawyers do. Unless I have to, in preparation to cross-examine someone, but that's uncommon in civil practice. I will piece through such a transcript on my own time. I'll skip over parts that are obviously irrelevant. I'll read 15 pages one day, 35 the next, 10 pages a few days later, and so on, while marking up with a highlighter and sticky notes.

* I hate going through medical records for reasons that will be obvious to most of you. Not a problem. Paralegals are pretty good at going through meds too. So are nurse consultants if your case allows you a budget to hire one. And if the case warrants any medical experts, then I have absolutely zero reason to put eyes on every single page. The benefit of my reading 400 pages of medical records is also closer to zero in the long term. If I read them in January, whatever I read will not make any sense to me in July when a deposition is taken, much less 1-2 years later if a trial is going to happen. So what was the point of reading the 400 pages? Further, in our PDF era, using the search function helps tremendously if I know of a particular interesting medical detail that I need to learn about. Do I still need to occasionally go through a huge stack of this crap anyway, where none of these other strategies will work? Sure I do, but rarely. It's doable.

* One of the reasons I've been able to set myself apart from other lawyers is my easy ability to brainstorm creative solutions to legal/litigation problems. I do tend to be much more creative than my colleagues. I seem to have a knack for spotting interesting legal issues that weren't obvious to the naked eye, so to speak. A witness who seems like a disaster to another lawyer can be turned around and presented to the jury as a good witness to me for reasons the other lawyer didn't think of. This happens a lot.

* Trials require a lot of preparation and organization, right? Of course they do. But they are also by their nature an exercise in chaotic madness. Fits perfectly with my personality. Other lawyers seem to freak out and have nervous breakdowns the closer they get to trial. But I'm pretty comfortable with the fact that I cannot control the chaos of the universe every single time, so I just plunge forward and prepare the best I can, and my emotions tend to be very much under control. This has helped me become a very comfortable, relaxed, and happy trial lawyer who really loves this stuff now, which in turn has just made me into an even better trial lawyer than if my brain worked otherwise.

I do not use medication. I did try it briefly in my young associate days, but wasn't seeing huge benefits and got worried about becoming dependent. Good luck to you all.

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Re: ADHD Lawyers - Share Your Tips

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:09 am

TBH I love how much the thread on ADHD keeps getting necroed.

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Re: ADHD Lawyers - Share Your Tips

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:10 pm

Currently in a sweet gov (lifestyle) gig. ADHD is pretty much manageable in Gov settings as I have to just get shit done and have no real billables. Considering going to private practice in the near future (for the $$) & dreading it. Law and ADHD suck. Law school was hell. Bar study was hell. I crammed for the bar in the very bitter end and it worked. That strategy didn't work in law school. Cramming works in my current role but I create fake earlier deadlines - because (when I started) my superiors were getting pissed with getting work submitted last minute (as it created a fire drill for them).

It seems though that at a senior level you can get away with more as you can push boring shit down on people under you. Does it get easier as you rise in the ranks? (I'm in a regulatory-ish practice area.)

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