Vault 2021 Predictions

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous User
Posts: 351128
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Vault 2021 Predictions

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:09 am

kovdak02 wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:34 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:09 am
FedFan123 wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:39 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:08 pm
FedFan123 wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:48 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:01 pm
Wild Card wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:18 pm




I think GULC is a good, national law school, and the T14 should stay as is. Others have been trying to forcememe T13.

As an incoming associate at Weil, I find this very hilarious and am laughing to death
For real - not sure why weil people are so sensitive to not being in the v10 anymore. It is still oddly overranked, particularly now that kirkland is so far ahead of it in bankruptcy. Should be around v15 at highest

“So far ahead” is a bit of a stretch. Sure KE RX is having a strong start to the year, but Weil continues to take on some of the largest cases year in and year out
Before weil filed a couple of new big chapter 11s this weekend, Kirkland had filed something like a dozen new cases this year to 1 (j crew) for weil. And even with a good weekend, they are getting quadrupled. Kirkland is the clear 1 debtor side, weil 2, and then a couple other shops like Latham and Paul Weiss aren’t all that far behind weil
But you're missing the point. Weil has less than half the bankruptcy attorneys as Kirkland. Kirkland churns bankruptcies. Weil takes the big ones. They don't churn through a bunch at a time. They get a few big ones and do a great job at restructuring. Until they more than double their attorneys, it would be impossible to handle the case load that Kirkland handles. The partners and practice group are very very well respected, and often considered the best. Kirkland has a lot of bankruptcy partners grabbing clients, and they're great too, but different from Weil in key respects. You can't judge them by # of bankruptcies that pass through. FYI - I know and work with lots of Weil bankruptcy attorneys and Kirkland bankruptcy attorneys. They both have a ton of respect for one another, and are both very well regarded. Right now Weil is considered #1. Next year they might be #2, but it won't last long. I wouldn't be surprised if Weil snatches the largest bankruptcy in the coming 12 months.
I don’t think this take holds up well to 2020 reality:

Kirkland has been on 11 of the 24 largest BKs this year,

Kirkland recent clients include J.C. Penney, Neiman Marcus, Pier 1 Imports, Stage Stores, and Toys-r-Us (not exactly small time churn and burn),

“There were 12 large, public companies with more than $100 million in assets that filed bankruptcy in May, according to a UCLA database. That was the most filings in any month since March 2009. Kirkland advised on seven of the filings in May.”

Maybe the sticky-prestige white-shoe legal culture sees Weil ahead of Kirkland in BK, but paying clients do not.

Source: https://news.bloomberglaw.com/business- ... g-pandemic
And those are just the K&E "retail" clients. You're missing Intelsat, Frontier, Whiting, Ultra, iHeart, Seadrill, etc. This whole Weil is #1 is just not borne out by the market, and I'm not even sure how you're judging #1 in this instance--every data point suggests otherwise. Like, Weil hasn't been the top BK shop for a few years now, despite the quality of their attorneys.

ETA: which isn't to say Weil doesn't have a great rx practice--they do--but it's fallen behind K&E.

sms18

New
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:04 pm

Re: Vault 2021 Predictions

Post by sms18 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:12 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:32 am
SLS_AMG wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:47 am
lawlo wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:15 am
SLS_AMG wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:06 pm
Sackboy wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:58 pm
sms18 wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:12 pm

K&E's rise to the top is not dissimilar to some of the other firms that were underdogs in their day, like Skadden and Wachtell (which are no longer seen as underdogs for sure). Skadden and Wachtell also rode the coattail of hostile M&A frenzy of the 80's (beginning of the massive junk bond-backed leveraged buyouts) and rose to the top with unique business models (for instance, Wachtell's defense advisory practice and attorney fee rate that's based on the deal size), similar to how K&E rode the coattail of modern private equity with an aggressive business model.
Exactly. Nobody likes the "new" kid on the block. If Kirkland keeps up what they're doing, they will just be like Skadden and Wachtell on here in five years: nobody will question them "belonging" as a top firm.
Eh. Many people also believe that Skadden isn't really in the same tier as the other top white-shoe NYC firms.
Who are these people and what exactly are you even saying? I stood back in perspective from this whole argument for a second and I'm dumbfounded. I thought the law school tier bullshit was bad.
I'm just saying I have heard (on multiple occasions) lawyers from Cravath/S&C/DPW/STB indicate that they do not think Skadden is a "peer" firm. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but frankly this shouldn't come as a shock to someone familiar with the legal industry.
Hilarious reading these threads as someone that broke into the V10 via lateraling after graduating with below median grades. Lawyers are so miserable they argue about the prestige of their employers that are all ridiculously prestigious. Do people actually have conversions at firms like this? I was so miserable at my V10 that all i wanted was sleep and for someone to pay off my loans. Anyone arguing about K&E is out of their depth. I can't stand working with them and have heard horror stories about hours to the point that I turned down a pretty big signing bonus after getting an offer there. But they are definitely the future of big law. They run that place like a Fortune 500 company, their financials seem unbelievably solid, and their PE practice is the best in the world.

If anything, their foresight to understand that low interest rates and recovering economies means PE boom shows they are far better business minds than many other top firm partners. I don't get the hate about them despite never wanting to work there.
Your post makes it sound as if K&E is the only firm in the world with the foresight to get on the PE bandwagon. You do realize that there are other law firms out there that do a huge chunk of large cap PE transactions, right? (e.g., STB (KKR, Blackstone), Paul Weiss (Apollo) and Ropes (TPG, Bain) among others)? Also where can we look up K&E's financials? Did they show you the financials when they gave you the "offer"?

Anonymous User
Posts: 351128
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Vault 2021 Predictions

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:19 am

Re: K&E and I truly don't mean this as a negative thing, as I ultimately think this way of doing things (usually) gets them good results for their clients, but does any of the K&E hatred from other attorneys on this forum come from how truly unreasonable & difficult they are to work across the table from?

IME (PE mid-level) they are more likely than any other firm I've worked with to a) take off-market positions and claim they're market, b) turn normal conversations into fights for no apparent reason, c) redraft entire sections of agreements in a way that does not alter meaning and d) fight for positions their client doesn't even care about (and aren't material) to win the material points.

User avatar
Wild Card

Silver
Posts: 840
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:48 pm

Re: Vault 2021 Predictions

Post by Wild Card » Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:22 am

malibustacy wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:35 am
Why though? Just because they've been around the block longer (one of those you named defended the wrong side on Brown v. Board of Education), used to be lily WASP, and some of them are marginally more selective during OCI? By what objective metric is Skadden not a peer firm to the other 4?
Be careful about your "wrong side" way of thinking. There are not just two sides in the world, or on each issue.

Skadden is less selective gradewise than its supposed peers. This doesn't mean that Skadden isn't selective.

Also, Skadden allegedly has a reputation for screamers and throwers, a "bro" culture.

Anonymous User
Posts: 351128
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Vault 2021 Predictions

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:36 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:53 am
Why are firms like Cahill, Willkie, and Fried Frank so underrated by Vault? All three have very good corporate practices and are well regarded firms, particularly in New York. Is it the lack of national presence?
National reach might have something to do with it. But the more straightforward answer to these sort of questions is just 'There are a lot of firms.' If you've ever actually filled out Vault's survey, this might make more sense.

Every firm must be given a value between 1-10. In practice, you create buckets. You might give out one or two 10s, a handful of 9s, a few 8s, a bunch of 7s, tons of 6s and 5s, fewer 4s and a handful of 3s for firms you've never heard of, and then save anything less for your hated enemies. There are 200 of these things, I think? Which is to say you end up ranking a *ton* of firms that don't even show up on the V100. It's a pretty imprecise process and, notably, you never see your ordinal ranking of firms.

Do I think Fried Frank is the 48th most prestigious firm? Not exactly. I think it's probably in my 6 bucket, though. It definitely wasn't one of my 8s and I'd be surprised if I gave it a 7. (It's actual average value was 5.7.)

The imprecision of the rankings is why we typically speak of V5 (9.0-8.0), V10 (8.0-7.6), V20 (7.6-6.8), V50 (6.7-5.6) etc. FF is definitely V50 (although it probably should be closer to the upper end of that bucket, IMO). But I don't think it's obviously in the next 'tier.'

Which is not to say that FF (or whatever) isn't a great firm... just that 'there are a lot of firms,' many of which aren't ranked at all.

Want to continue reading?

Register now to search topics and post comments!

Absolutely FREE!


Anonymous User
Posts: 351128
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Vault 2021 Predictions

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:10 am

sms18 wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:12 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:32 am
SLS_AMG wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:47 am
lawlo wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:15 am
SLS_AMG wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:06 pm
Sackboy wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:58 pm
sms18 wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:12 pm

K&E's rise to the top is not dissimilar to some of the other firms that were underdogs in their day, like Skadden and Wachtell (which are no longer seen as underdogs for sure). Skadden and Wachtell also rode the coattail of hostile M&A frenzy of the 80's (beginning of the massive junk bond-backed leveraged buyouts) and rose to the top with unique business models (for instance, Wachtell's defense advisory practice and attorney fee rate that's based on the deal size), similar to how K&E rode the coattail of modern private equity with an aggressive business model.
Exactly. Nobody likes the "new" kid on the block. If Kirkland keeps up what they're doing, they will just be like Skadden and Wachtell on here in five years: nobody will question them "belonging" as a top firm.
Eh. Many people also believe that Skadden isn't really in the same tier as the other top white-shoe NYC firms.
Who are these people and what exactly are you even saying? I stood back in perspective from this whole argument for a second and I'm dumbfounded. I thought the law school tier bullshit was bad.
I'm just saying I have heard (on multiple occasions) lawyers from Cravath/S&C/DPW/STB indicate that they do not think Skadden is a "peer" firm. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but frankly this shouldn't come as a shock to someone familiar with the legal industry.
Hilarious reading these threads as someone that broke into the V10 via lateraling after graduating with below median grades. Lawyers are so miserable they argue about the prestige of their employers that are all ridiculously prestigious. Do people actually have conversions at firms like this? I was so miserable at my V10 that all i wanted was sleep and for someone to pay off my loans. Anyone arguing about K&E is out of their depth. I can't stand working with them and have heard horror stories about hours to the point that I turned down a pretty big signing bonus after getting an offer there. But they are definitely the future of big law. They run that place like a Fortune 500 company, their financials seem unbelievably solid, and their PE practice is the best in the world.

If anything, their foresight to understand that low interest rates and recovering economies means PE boom shows they are far better business minds than many other top firm partners. I don't get the hate about them despite never wanting to work there.
Your post makes it sound as if K&E is the only firm in the world with the foresight to get on the PE bandwagon. You do realize that there are other law firms out there that do a huge chunk of large cap PE transactions, right? (e.g., STB (KKR, Blackstone), Paul Weiss (Apollo) and Ropes (TPG, Bain) among others)? Also where can we look up K&E's financials? Did they show you the financials when they gave you the "offer"?
Lawyers are such miserable sacks of shit

Anonymous User
Posts: 351128
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Vault 2021 Predictions

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:11 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:19 am
Re: K&E and I truly don't mean this as a negative thing, as I ultimately think this way of doing things (usually) gets them good results for their clients, but does any of the K&E hatred from other attorneys on this forum come from how truly unreasonable & difficult they are to work across the table from?

IME (PE mid-level) they are more likely than any other firm I've worked with to a) take off-market positions and claim they're market, b) turn normal conversations into fights for no apparent reason, c) redraft entire sections of agreements in a way that does not alter meaning and d) fight for positions their client doesn't even care about (and aren't material) to win the material points.
I think this is right. I have not personally worked across from K&E but my friends at my V3 who have have universally described them as being unnecessarily unpleasant to work with. Which is not to say they aren't good lawyers but I think that probably explains a lot of the hate.

sms18

New
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:04 pm

Re: Vault 2021 Predictions

Post by sms18 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:28 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:10 am
sms18 wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:12 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:32 am
SLS_AMG wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:47 am
lawlo wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:15 am
SLS_AMG wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:06 pm
Sackboy wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:58 pm


Exactly. Nobody likes the "new" kid on the block. If Kirkland keeps up what they're doing, they will just be like Skadden and Wachtell on here in five years: nobody will question them "belonging" as a top firm.
Eh. Many people also believe that Skadden isn't really in the same tier as the other top white-shoe NYC firms.
Who are these people and what exactly are you even saying? I stood back in perspective from this whole argument for a second and I'm dumbfounded. I thought the law school tier bullshit was bad.
I'm just saying I have heard (on multiple occasions) lawyers from Cravath/S&C/DPW/STB indicate that they do not think Skadden is a "peer" firm. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but frankly this shouldn't come as a shock to someone familiar with the legal industry.
Hilarious reading these threads as someone that broke into the V10 via lateraling after graduating with below median grades. Lawyers are so miserable they argue about the prestige of their employers that are all ridiculously prestigious. Do people actually have conversions at firms like this? I was so miserable at my V10 that all i wanted was sleep and for someone to pay off my loans. Anyone arguing about K&E is out of their depth. I can't stand working with them and have heard horror stories about hours to the point that I turned down a pretty big signing bonus after getting an offer there. But they are definitely the future of big law. They run that place like a Fortune 500 company, their financials seem unbelievably solid, and their PE practice is the best in the world.

If anything, their foresight to understand that low interest rates and recovering economies means PE boom shows they are far better business minds than many other top firm partners. I don't get the hate about them despite never wanting to work there.
Your post makes it sound as if K&E is the only firm in the world with the foresight to get on the PE bandwagon. You do realize that there are other law firms out there that do a huge chunk of large cap PE transactions, right? (e.g., STB (KKR, Blackstone), Paul Weiss (Apollo) and Ropes (TPG, Bain) among others)? Also where can we look up K&E's financials? Did they show you the financials when they gave you the "offer"?
Lawyers are such miserable sacks of shit
LOL you must be the most miserable person on this thread. consider getting some help.

FedFan123

New
Posts: 100
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:13 pm

Re: Vault 2021 Predictions

Post by FedFan123 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:20 pm

kovdak02 wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:34 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:09 am
FedFan123 wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:39 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:08 pm
FedFan123 wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:48 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:01 pm
Wild Card wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:18 pm




I think GULC is a good, national law school, and the T14 should stay as is. Others have been trying to forcememe T13.

As an incoming associate at Weil, I find this very hilarious and am laughing to death
For real - not sure why weil people are so sensitive to not being in the v10 anymore. It is still oddly overranked, particularly now that kirkland is so far ahead of it in bankruptcy. Should be around v15 at highest

“So far ahead” is a bit of a stretch. Sure KE RX is having a strong start to the year, but Weil continues to take on some of the largest cases year in and year out
Before weil filed a couple of new big chapter 11s this weekend, Kirkland had filed something like a dozen new cases this year to 1 (j crew) for weil. And even with a good weekend, they are getting quadrupled. Kirkland is the clear 1 debtor side, weil 2, and then a couple other shops like Latham and Paul Weiss aren’t all that far behind weil
But you're missing the point. Weil has less than half the bankruptcy attorneys as Kirkland. Kirkland churns bankruptcies. Weil takes the big ones. They don't churn through a bunch at a time. They get a few big ones and do a great job at restructuring. Until they more than double their attorneys, it would be impossible to handle the case load that Kirkland handles. The partners and practice group are very very well respected, and often considered the best. Kirkland has a lot of bankruptcy partners grabbing clients, and they're great too, but different from Weil in key respects. You can't judge them by # of bankruptcies that pass through. FYI - I know and work with lots of Weil bankruptcy attorneys and Kirkland bankruptcy attorneys. They both have a ton of respect for one another, and are both very well regarded. Right now Weil is considered #1. Next year they might be #2, but it won't last long. I wouldn't be surprised if Weil snatches the largest bankruptcy in the coming 12 months.
I don’t think this take holds up well to 2020 reality:

Kirkland has been on 11 of the 24 largest BKs this year,

Kirkland recent clients include J.C. Penney, Neiman Marcus, Pier 1 Imports, Stage Stores, and Toys-r-Us (not exactly small time churn and burn),

“There were 12 large, public companies with more than $100 million in assets that filed bankruptcy in May, according to a UCLA database. That was the most filings in any month since March 2009. Kirkland advised on seven of the filings in May.”

Maybe the sticky-prestige white-shoe legal culture sees Weil ahead of Kirkland in BK, but paying clients do not.

Source: https://news.bloomberglaw.com/business- ... g-pandemic
Bingo

Want to continue reading?

Register for access!

Did I mention it was FREE ?


Anonymous User
Posts: 351128
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Vault 2021 Predictions

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:19 am
Re: K&E and I truly don't mean this as a negative thing, as I ultimately think this way of doing things (usually) gets them good results for their clients, but does any of the K&E hatred from other attorneys on this forum come from how truly unreasonable & difficult they are to work across the table from?

IME (PE mid-level) they are more likely than any other firm I've worked with to a) take off-market positions and claim they're market, b) turn normal conversations into fights for no apparent reason, c) redraft entire sections of agreements in a way that does not alter meaning and d) fight for positions their client doesn't even care about (and aren't material) to win the material points.
Yes, IME they do tend to be unnecessarily hostile negotiators and can indeed be very difficult to work across from. In my experience working across from them, it often seems that many of their lawyers are happy to argue just for the sake of arguing, which comes off as pretty non-commercial. And I'm not sure they necessarily get better outcomes for their clients as a result of it -- it seems like they just make the deals unpleasant for everyone. As an example, see the articles on the Victoria's Secret negotiations and the pandemic MAE.

sms18

New
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:04 pm

Re: Vault 2021 Predictions

Post by sms18 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:21 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:19 am
Re: K&E and I truly don't mean this as a negative thing, as I ultimately think this way of doing things (usually) gets them good results for their clients, but does any of the K&E hatred from other attorneys on this forum come from how truly unreasonable & difficult they are to work across the table from?

IME (PE mid-level) they are more likely than any other firm I've worked with to a) take off-market positions and claim they're market, b) turn normal conversations into fights for no apparent reason, c) redraft entire sections of agreements in a way that does not alter meaning and d) fight for positions their client doesn't even care about (and aren't material) to win the material points.
Yes, IME they do tend to be unnecessarily hostile negotiators and can indeed be very difficult to work across from. In my experience working across from them, it often seems that many of their lawyers are happy to argue just for the sake of arguing, which comes off as pretty non-commercial. And I'm not sure they necessarily get better outcomes for their clients as a result of it -- it seems like they just make the deals unpleasant for everyone. As an example, see the articles on the Victoria's Secret negotiations and the pandemic MAE.
Interesting, i didn't appreciate that the buyer (Sycamore) was represented by K&E (and that VS was represented by DPW) - the buyer's rationale for walking away from that deal was not because of the MAE clause (which specifically carved out pandemics) but because the company's business wasn't conducted in the ordinary course of business during this pandemic, which is a pretty ridiculous argument. Matt Levine covered this pretty well on Bloomberg: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/artic ... footnote-6

User avatar
Sackboy

Bronze
Posts: 266
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:14 am

Re: Vault 2021 Predictions

Post by Sackboy » Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:40 pm

Ya'll got some issues. Kirkland, Weil, and every other firm mentioned here is fantastic. The Vault rankings should be for nothing more than amusement. There's a lot of hair splitting and hand wringing going on for a survey where essentially "everything's made up, and the points don't matter," as Drew Carey would say.

Auxilio

Silver
Posts: 759
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:51 pm

Re: Vault 2021 Predictions

Post by Auxilio » Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:22 pm

sms18 wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:32 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:21 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:19 am
Re: K&E and I truly don't mean this as a negative thing, as I ultimately think this way of doing things (usually) gets them good results for their clients, but does any of the K&E hatred from other attorneys on this forum come from how truly unreasonable & difficult they are to work across the table from?

IME (PE mid-level) they are more likely than any other firm I've worked with to a) take off-market positions and claim they're market, b) turn normal conversations into fights for no apparent reason, c) redraft entire sections of agreements in a way that does not alter meaning and d) fight for positions their client doesn't even care about (and aren't material) to win the material points.
Yes, IME they do tend to be unnecessarily hostile negotiators and can indeed be very difficult to work across from. In my experience working across from them, it often seems that many of their lawyers are happy to argue just for the sake of arguing, which comes off as pretty non-commercial. And I'm not sure they necessarily get better outcomes for their clients as a result of it -- it seems like they just make the deals unpleasant for everyone. As an example, see the articles on the Victoria's Secret negotiations and the pandemic MAE.
Interesting, i didn't appreciate that the buyer (Sycamore) was represented by K&E (and that VS was represented by DPW) - the buyer's rationale for walking away from that deal was not because of the MAE clause (which specifically carved out pandemics) but because the company's business wasn't conducted in the ordinary course of business during this pandemic, which is a pretty ridiculous argument. Matt Levine covered this pretty well on Bloomberg: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/artic ... footnote-6
My takeaway from the complaint was that most of the argument was pretty weak, but categorically not making rent payments was iffy.

There's also a cute third complaint that doesn't get mentioned much, that I initially thought was going too far but my PE partners when I mentioned it said that they put a lot of stock in the clause:

First complaint was the Buyer suing to get out, second complaint was the seller suing to enforce sale or other monetary relief. Third complaint was the buyer suing to terminate the agreement because the agreement explicitly gave them the right to terminate if the seller sues for monetary damages.

Register now!

Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.

It's still FREE!


thepsychedelic

Bronze
Posts: 129
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:28 pm

Re: Vault 2021 Predictions

Post by thepsychedelic » Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:02 pm

Wild Card wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:22 am
malibustacy wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:35 am
Why though? Just because they've been around the block longer (one of those you named defended the wrong side on Brown v. Board of Education), used to be lily WASP, and some of them are marginally more selective during OCI? By what objective metric is Skadden not a peer firm to the other 4?
Be careful about your "wrong side" way of thinking. There are not just two sides in the world, or on each issue.
Sorry, did you just "both sides" Brown v. Board?

JusticeSquee

Bronze
Posts: 108
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:29 pm

Re: Vault 2021 Predictions

Post by JusticeSquee » Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:12 pm

thepsychedelic wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:02 pm
Wild Card wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:22 am
malibustacy wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:35 am
Why though? Just because they've been around the block longer (one of those you named defended the wrong side on Brown v. Board of Education), used to be lily WASP, and some of them are marginally more selective during OCI? By what objective metric is Skadden not a peer firm to the other 4?
Be careful about your "wrong side" way of thinking. There are not just two sides in the world, or on each issue.
Sorry, did you just "both sides" Brown v. Board?
Wild Card also said in another thread that biglaw firms "espouse extremist leftist ideologies" because they sometimes acknowledge that racism exists. (SOURCE: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=306093&p=10429315#p10429315). He's a gaping asshole.

Seriously Wild Card, please explain to all of us why the other side of Brown v. Board was not wrong. Please.

cheaptilts

Silver
Posts: 533
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:29 pm

Re: Vault 2021 Predictions

Post by cheaptilts » Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:14 pm

thepsychedelic wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:02 pm
Wild Card wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:22 am
malibustacy wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:35 am
Why though? Just because they've been around the block longer (one of those you named defended the wrong side on Brown v. Board of Education), used to be lily WASP, and some of them are marginally more selective during OCI? By what objective metric is Skadden not a peer firm to the other 4?
Be careful about your "wrong side" way of thinking. There are not just two sides in the world, or on each issue.
Sorry, did you just "both sides" Brown v. Board?
Yeahhhh that’s going to be a “YIKES” for me dawg

User avatar
Monochromatic Oeuvre

Gold
Posts: 2092
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 9:40 pm

Re: Vault 2021 Predictions

Post by Monochromatic Oeuvre » Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:20 pm

The Weird Olympics:

Bronze: Working a ton of excess hours compared to other Biglaw firms and frequently getting paid librarian-level hourly wages (or sometimes nothing) for all those surplus hours
Silver: Being proud of the above, or worse, finding it prestigious
Gold: Using the remainder of your free time in your thoroughly wasted twenties and thirties to exhaustively debate the minutiae of a literal popularity contest

Get unlimited access to all forums and topics

Register now!

I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...


basketofbread

New
Posts: 54
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 3:46 pm

Re: Vault 2021 Predictions

Post by basketofbread » Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:41 pm

cheaptilts wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:14 pm
thepsychedelic wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:02 pm
Wild Card wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:22 am
malibustacy wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:35 am
Why though? Just because they've been around the block longer (one of those you named defended the wrong side on Brown v. Board of Education), used to be lily WASP, and some of them are marginally more selective during OCI? By what objective metric is Skadden not a peer firm to the other 4?
Be careful about your "wrong side" way of thinking. There are not just two sides in the world, or on each issue.
Sorry, did you just "both sides" Brown v. Board?
Yeahhhh that’s going to be a “YIKES” for me dawg
I think he’s coming at this from the perspective of Derrick Bell, who argues that Brown was ultimately wrongheaded because the court could have focused on the fact that black facilities were so poorly funded compared to white. They should have focused on the “unequal” reality of “separate but equal.” Over a half century later, patterns of segregation and underfunding in black school districts look similar to how they were back then.

Lol just kidding, definitely just a nut job.

-dasein-

New
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:52 am

Re: Vault 2021 Predictions

Post by -dasein- » Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:54 am

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:20 pm
The Weird Olympics:

Bronze: Working a ton of excess hours compared to other Biglaw firms and frequently getting paid librarian-level hourly wages (or sometimes nothing) for all those surplus hours
Silver: Being proud of the above, or worse, finding it prestigious
Gold: Using the remainder of your free time in your thoroughly wasted twenties and thirties to exhaustively debate the minutiae of a literal popularity contest
It is oh so entertaining though.

Anonymous User
Posts: 351128
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Vault 2021 Predictions

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:18 pm

sms18 wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:28 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:10 am
sms18 wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:12 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:32 am
SLS_AMG wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:47 am
lawlo wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:15 am
SLS_AMG wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:06 pm


Eh. Many people also believe that Skadden isn't really in the same tier as the other top white-shoe NYC firms.
Who are these people and what exactly are you even saying? I stood back in perspective from this whole argument for a second and I'm dumbfounded. I thought the law school tier bullshit was bad.
I'm just saying I have heard (on multiple occasions) lawyers from Cravath/S&C/DPW/STB indicate that they do not think Skadden is a "peer" firm. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but frankly this shouldn't come as a shock to someone familiar with the legal industry.
Hilarious reading these threads as someone that broke into the V10 via lateraling after graduating with below median grades. Lawyers are so miserable they argue about the prestige of their employers that are all ridiculously prestigious. Do people actually have conversions at firms like this? I was so miserable at my V10 that all i wanted was sleep and for someone to pay off my loans. Anyone arguing about K&E is out of their depth. I can't stand working with them and have heard horror stories about hours to the point that I turned down a pretty big signing bonus after getting an offer there. But they are definitely the future of big law. They run that place like a Fortune 500 company, their financials seem unbelievably solid, and their PE practice is the best in the world.

If anything, their foresight to understand that low interest rates and recovering economies means PE boom shows they are far better business minds than many other top firm partners. I don't get the hate about them despite never wanting to work there.
Your post makes it sound as if K&E is the only firm in the world with the foresight to get on the PE bandwagon. You do realize that there are other law firms out there that do a huge chunk of large cap PE transactions, right? (e.g., STB (KKR, Blackstone), Paul Weiss (Apollo) and Ropes (TPG, Bain) among others)? Also where can we look up K&E's financials? Did they show you the financials when they gave you the "offer"?
Lawyers are such miserable sacks of shit
LOL you must be the most miserable person on this thread. consider getting some help.
Yep - cause I'm surrounded by people like you all day - everyday. Can't wait to GTFO of this profession.

MOD NOTE: User $$$$ Outed for anon abuse and personal attacks. Next time earns a posting vacation.

ChickenSalad

New
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:08 pm

Re: Vault 2021 Predictions

Post by ChickenSalad » Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:21 pm

basketofbread wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:41 pm
cheaptilts wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:14 pm
thepsychedelic wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:02 pm
Wild Card wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:22 am
malibustacy wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:35 am
Why though? Just because they've been around the block longer (one of those you named defended the wrong side on Brown v. Board of Education), used to be lily WASP, and some of them are marginally more selective during OCI? By what objective metric is Skadden not a peer firm to the other 4?
Be careful about your "wrong side" way of thinking. There are not just two sides in the world, or on each issue.
Sorry, did you just "both sides" Brown v. Board?
Yeahhhh that’s going to be a “YIKES” for me dawg
I think he’s coming at this from the perspective of Derrick Bell, who argues that Brown was ultimately wrongheaded because the court could have focused on the fact that black facilities were so poorly funded compared to white. They should have focused on the “unequal” reality of “separate but equal.” Over a half century later, patterns of segregation and underfunding in black school districts look similar to how they were back then.

Lol just kidding, definitely just a nut job.
This is the perfect time for that "they had us in the first half i'm not gonna lie" meme.

When are Vault rankings being released? I think they've already released their rankings for other sectors...

Communicate now with those who not only know what a legal education is, but can offer you worthy advice and commentary as you complete the three most educational, yet challenging years of your law related post graduate life.

Register now, it's still FREE!


sms18

New
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:04 pm

Re: Vault 2021 Predictions

Post by sms18 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:18 pm
sms18 wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:28 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:10 am
sms18 wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:12 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:32 am
SLS_AMG wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:47 am
lawlo wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:15 am


Who are these people and what exactly are you even saying? I stood back in perspective from this whole argument for a second and I'm dumbfounded. I thought the law school tier bullshit was bad.
I'm just saying I have heard (on multiple occasions) lawyers from Cravath/S&C/DPW/STB indicate that they do not think Skadden is a "peer" firm. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but frankly this shouldn't come as a shock to someone familiar with the legal industry.
Hilarious reading these threads as someone that broke into the V10 via lateraling after graduating with below median grades. Lawyers are so miserable they argue about the prestige of their employers that are all ridiculously prestigious. Do people actually have conversions at firms like this? I was so miserable at my V10 that all i wanted was sleep and for someone to pay off my loans. Anyone arguing about K&E is out of their depth. I can't stand working with them and have heard horror stories about hours to the point that I turned down a pretty big signing bonus after getting an offer there. But they are definitely the future of big law. They run that place like a Fortune 500 company, their financials seem unbelievably solid, and their PE practice is the best in the world.

If anything, their foresight to understand that low interest rates and recovering economies means PE boom shows they are far better business minds than many other top firm partners. I don't get the hate about them despite never wanting to work there.
Your post makes it sound as if K&E is the only firm in the world with the foresight to get on the PE bandwagon. You do realize that there are other law firms out there that do a huge chunk of large cap PE transactions, right? (e.g., STB (KKR, Blackstone), Paul Weiss (Apollo) and Ropes (TPG, Bain) among others)? Also where can we look up K&E's financials? Did they show you the financials when they gave you the "offer"?
Lawyers are such miserable sacks of shit
LOL you must be the most miserable person on this thread. consider getting some help.
Yep - cause I'm surrounded by people like you all day - everyday. Can't wait to GTFO of this profession.

MOD NOTE: User $$$$ Outed for anon abuse and personal attacks. Next time earns a posting vacation.
lol okay, user "$$$$"... i hope you get out of law soon and find happiness (or $$$$ or whatever it is that you feel lacking).

Anonymous User
Posts: 351128
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Vault 2021 Predictions

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:35 pm

Any confirmation that this is actually being released this week? Haven’t seen any indication from Vault one way or the other.

ghostoftraynor

Bronze
Posts: 296
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:43 pm

Re: Vault 2021 Predictions

Post by ghostoftraynor » Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:16 pm

I doubt anyone from Vault is on here to confirm (or would confirm). It was released June 19th last year.

lawschoolnewbie2018

New
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:12 pm

Re: Vault 2021 Predictions

Post by lawschoolnewbie2018 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:17 pm

Has been released on the second to last Wednesday for the last few years so since that was yesterday, no clue.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!


Post Reply Post Anonymous Reply  

Return to “Legal Employment”