Prediction: When will NYC lawyers return to the office? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone been crazy enough to order dinner to their home at the firm's expense? There are plenty of nights where I can't break to make dinner. Wish they would give us one meal a week for those extra-awful days.

No. This would definitely not be allowed at firms I've worked at (all NYC Big Law).

[Anonymous User]

My firm V10, allows you to order meals from home and I have numerous times.

[Anonymous User]

My firm offered up the ability to volunteer to return to office starting at end of month. I volunteered. Sick of being home all the time.

what city do you live in? if a big one, you are a strikebreaker of sorts

NYC, so I guess a strikebreaker (though this is the first I am hearing of a strike, so my apologies for that). But personally, given how cases in NYC have dropped to negligible numbers now, and the proliferation of face masks in subways, I think it's pretty safe to move around. I'll take the necessary precautions.

[Anonymous User]

And they'll stay negligible until people start moving around again.

[Anonymous User]

My firm V10, allows you to order meals from home and I have numerous times.

Cravath does not and it has been a source of associate grumbling since, if anything, it’s harder to feed yourself when you’re busy during work from home than it is while at the office (where we have an excellent cafeteria)

[Anonymous User]

My firm V10, allows you to order meals from home and I have numerous times.

Cravath does not and it has been a source of associate grumbling since, if anything, it’s harder to feed yourself when you’re busy during work from home than it is while at the office (where we have an excellent cafeteria)

Same with Goodwin--no expensing meals for now. It's hard to make the time to cook full meals when you're cleaning, organizing, working, walking the dog, all while only making one grocery trip per month. I can only make so many slow cooker recipes.

[Anonymous User]

My firm allows meals ordered to the home.

[ConfusedNYer]

I'm surprised any firms are allowing seamlessing to home during WFH. My understanding is there are tax implications for how food is expensed (to office v. to home) which results in fewer firms allowing the later.

[SophieLaw]

For those of us that still have apartments in the city with leases expiring in the fall, are you planning to renew your lease?

[Joachim2017]

For those of us that still have apartments in the city with leases expiring in the fall, are you planning to renew your lease?

Nope. When my lease ends I'm moving out of NYC. It's going to get worse here again in the winter as this thing rolls back and forth across the country. And with firms being generous about WFH, makes more sense than ever.

[Lesion of Doom]

For those of us that still have apartments in the city with leases expiring in the fall, are you planning to renew your lease?

Nope. When my lease ends I'm moving out of NYC. It's going to get worse here again in the winter as this thing rolls back and forth across the country. And with firms being generous about WFH, makes more sense than ever.

Yeah, I regret renewing this spring. Just wasn't ready to commit to a move in April when so much was unknown. I'm convinced now that we aren't going back until there's a vaccine, and that's most likely going to be spring 2021 at the earliest.

[objctnyrhnr]

Has anybody heard from firm leadership that they feel there has been a significant drop in productivity since WFH, and that (the firm believes) this can be at least partially ameliorated by returning to the office?

To be clear, my firm has not said this. In fact it’s said the opposite. I guess I’m broadly wondering about the degree to which this is going to change the biglaw landscape. It feels like my firm is finally recognizing that substantial WFH can be just as profitable, so they’re in no rush to have us back.

[nixy]

Not in biglaw, but I know two attorneys whose employers have decided to close their offices and have everyone wfh in future. (Local government, I think.)

[bob311]

Has anybody heard from firm leadership that they feel there has been a significant drop in productivity since WFH, and that (the firm believes) this can be at least partially ameliorated by returning to the office?

To be clear, my firm has not said this. In fact it’s said the opposite. I guess I’m broadly wondering about the degree to which this is going to change the biglaw landscape. It feels like my firm is finally recognizing that substantial WFH can be just as profitable, so they’re in no rush to have us back.

No longer in biglaw but at a lit boutique. Associate billable hours are significantly up. The firm has recognized wfh is actually way more profitable especially because we can downsize our physical footprint. The only people complaining are partners with young kids who can’t escape them.

[Yugihoe]

Has anybody heard from firm leadership that they feel there has been a significant drop in productivity since WFH, and that (the firm believes) this can be at least partially ameliorated by returning to the office?

To be clear, my firm has not said this. In fact it’s said the opposite. I guess I’m broadly wondering about the degree to which this is going to change the biglaw landscape. It feels like my firm is finally recognizing that substantial WFH can be just as profitable, so they’re in no rush to have us back.

I doubt it. The law profession is already notorious for a lack of work-life balance and I feel like working from home has made it worse because there is no clear distinction anymore that at least separates the two. Especially type A personalities who will feel compelled to respond to an email without letting too much time pass. I've actually had to put specific personal rules in place internally now so as not to really respond to things that require me to review documents after like 730pm (unless it sounds urgent). Disclaimer: I'm not at a lawfirm, but this time would be hell and this option wouldn't be realistic if I were. Also what I've noticed is that people are working earlier now too, and I wake up to way more emails than I did back when people commuted.

[Idontwanttomakeaname]

For those of us that still have apartments in the city with leases expiring in the fall, are you planning to renew your lease?

Nope. When my lease ends I'm moving out of NYC. It's going to get worse here again in the winter as this thing rolls back and forth across the country. And with firms being generous about WFH, makes more sense than ever.

Yeah, I regret renewing this spring. Just wasn't ready to commit to a move in April when so much was unknown. I'm convinced now that we aren't going back until there's a vaccine, and that's most likely going to be spring 2021 at the earliest.

It would be helpful they could give more guidance on when they expect wfh to end though. My lease expires end of September and I’m strongly considering not renewing which will probably be a financial mistake (not to mention a huge pain in the ass) if we are back at any point in 2020. How are people navigating the uncertainty?

[cisscum]

For those of us that still have apartments in the city with leases expiring in the fall, are you planning to renew your lease?

Nope. When my lease ends I'm moving out of NYC. It's going to get worse here again in the winter as this thing rolls back and forth across the country. And with firms being generous about WFH, makes more sense than ever.

Yeah, I regret renewing this spring. Just wasn't ready to commit to a move in April when so much was unknown. I'm convinced now that we aren't going back until there's a vaccine, and that's most likely going to be spring 2021 at the earliest.

It would be helpful they could give more guidance on when they expect wfh to end though. My lease expires end of September and I’m strongly considering not renewing which will probably be a financial mistake (not to mention a huge pain in the ass) if we are back at any point in 2020. How are people navigating the uncertainty?

I don't see the scenario where it costs you MORE to get out of NYC. Are you just worried about moving costs? The rent savings alone should dwarf that.

[The Lsat Airbender]

I don't see the scenario where it costs you MORE to get out of NYC. Are you just worried about moving costs? The rent savings alone should dwarf that.

You don't want to get stuck in a lease in Jersey or whatever if you end up having to return to the office in 3 months anyway.

[cisscum]

I don't see the scenario where it costs you MORE to get out of NYC. Are you just worried about moving costs? The rent savings alone should dwarf that.

You don't want to get stuck in a lease in Jersey or whatever if you end up having to return to the office in 3 months anyway.

Well yeah I would only sign short term leases (or even better do Airbnb). What's the point of leaving NYC if you're going to move to shithole new Jersey? There are beautiful places to live in the rest of the country that are cheap even on Airbnb (especially given covid).

[Idontwanttomakeaname]

I don't see the scenario where it costs you MORE to get out of NYC. Are you just worried about moving costs? The rent savings alone should dwarf that.

You don't want to get stuck in a lease in Jersey or whatever if you end up having to return to the office in 3 months anyway.

Well yeah I would only sign short term leases (or even better do Airbnb). What's the point of leaving NYC if you're going to move to shithole new Jersey? There are beautiful places to live in the rest of the country that are cheap even on Airbnb (especially given covid).

The scenario I’m worried about is I end my lease (ending 9/30) -> my office opens back up at some point between September and December -> I need to get a new apt right away and pay brokers fee + movers without actually getting any rent savings and incurring the huge pain in the ass of moving. I’d be staying with my parents in the meantime (I’m already living with them and still paying rent). I guess the issue is that it only makes sense to pull up roots if we aren't going to be back until 2021 but nobody has any idea what’s happening now which makes it really hard to make any plans.

[blair.waldorf]

I don't see the scenario where it costs you MORE to get out of NYC. Are you just worried about moving costs? The rent savings alone should dwarf that.

You don't want to get stuck in a lease in Jersey or whatever if you end up having to return to the office in 3 months anyway.

Well yeah I would only sign short term leases (or even better do Airbnb). What's the point of leaving NYC if you're going to move to shithole new Jersey? There are beautiful places to live in the rest of the country that are cheap even on Airbnb (especially given covid).

The scenario I’m worried about is I end my lease (ending 9/30) -> my office opens back up at some point between September and December -> I need to get a new apt right away and pay brokers fee + movers without actually getting any rent savings and incurring the huge pain in the ass of moving. I’d be staying with my parents in the meantime (I’m already living with them and still paying rent). I guess the issue is that it only makes sense to pull up roots if we aren't going to be back until 2021 but nobody has any idea what’s happening now which makes it really hard to make any plans.

Even if your office opens back up, would attendance actually be mandatory? I really can't see a scenario where a law firm forces everyone back into the office in 2020. I could see voluntary office attendance, but mandatory seems like a disaster waiting to happen (and a huge liability).

[Anonymous User]

I don't see the scenario where it costs you MORE to get out of NYC. Are you just worried about moving costs? The rent savings alone should dwarf that.

You don't want to get stuck in a lease in Jersey or whatever if you end up having to return to the office in 3 months anyway.

Well yeah I would only sign short term leases (or even better do Airbnb). What's the point of leaving NYC if you're going to move to shithole new Jersey? There are beautiful places to live in the rest of the country that are cheap even on Airbnb (especially given covid).

The scenario I’m worried about is I end my lease (ending 9/30) -> my office opens back up at some point between September and December -> I need to get a new apt right away and pay brokers fee + movers without actually getting any rent savings and incurring the huge pain in the ass of moving. I’d be staying with my parents in the meantime (I’m already living with them and still paying rent). I guess the issue is that it only makes sense to pull up roots if we aren't going to be back until 2021 but nobody has any idea what’s happening now which makes it really hard to make any plans.

I thought brokers fees were prohibited in NYC now? In any case, if mandatory attendance ever returns, law firms are slow movers. You'll know we'll in advance, it's not going to happen overnight. I wouldn't renew.

[Anonymous User]

FWIW, my NYC-based V15 told us last week to prepare to continue WFH through the end of the year.

[SophieLaw]

FWIW, my NYC-based V15 told us last week to prepare to continue WFH through the end of the year.

I wish more firms were giving us this information. Please consider sending a tip to ATL so that other firms will start to feel the pressure to provide certainty to their associates.

[The Lsat Airbender]

Please consider sending a tip to ATL so that other firms will start to feel the pressure to provide certainty to their associates.

Lol, getting their cage rattled by ATL is near the bottom of the list of considerations for firms planning when to phase out of WFH