Prediction: When will NYC lawyers return to the office? Forum

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Re: Prediction: When will NYC lawyers return to the office?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:30 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:08 am
Feels like a lot of people on here are actively rooting for the variants to be terrible. If you hate big law this much, do something else lol. The vaccines seem to work against the variants, which is a fantastic thing. WFH is nice a couple days a week, but ridiculous to think permanent WFH is a good thing, especially for first year associates who have no idea what they're doing and really suffer for lack of day to day interaction with the folks in their class. We should be very happy that people seem to be getting vaccinated at a high rate, and that life can start to slowly become more normal.
I actually don't hate the work I do. I even like the work big law. I do hate not seeing my spouse or child for stretches of days when I am working at the office from 9 to 9 most days of the week. But yes, very terrible that I can see my family for minutes here and there (sometimes even eating lunch together for 15 minutes) while billing more and being more productive everyday without commutes. I really miss staying in the office until 2 am and then having to uber home and then get on the train 5 hours later to do it again.

And what was your first year like? Did your partners and sr associates come to your office to talk you through everything, because for me, it was 95% emails anyway. I guess I would have missed being able to see the partner's facial reactions to client's talking on conference calls for the 1 or 2 partners that wanted to take calls in their office together? What is this amazing learning that first years are missing out on? It sounds like they are just missing out on drinks together (admitted that's nice but worth the sacrifice)?

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Re: Prediction: When will NYC lawyers return to the office?

Post by MarcusH » Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:19 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:30 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:08 am
Feels like a lot of people on here are actively rooting for the variants to be terrible. If you hate big law this much, do something else lol. The vaccines seem to work against the variants, which is a fantastic thing. WFH is nice a couple days a week, but ridiculous to think permanent WFH is a good thing, especially for first year associates who have no idea what they're doing and really suffer for lack of day to day interaction with the folks in their class. We should be very happy that people seem to be getting vaccinated at a high rate, and that life can start to slowly become more normal.
I actually don't hate the work I do. I even like the work big law. I do hate not seeing my spouse or child for stretches of days when I am working at the office from 9 to 9 most days of the week. But yes, very terrible that I can see my family for minutes here and there (sometimes even eating lunch together for 15 minutes) while billing more and being more productive everyday without commutes. I really miss staying in the office until 2 am and then having to uber home and then get on the train 5 hours later to do it again.

And what was your first year like? Did your partners and sr associates come to your office to talk you through everything, because for me, it was 95% emails anyway. I guess I would have missed being able to see the partner's facial reactions to client's talking on conference calls for the 1 or 2 partners that wanted to take calls in their office together? What is this amazing learning that first years are missing out on? It sounds like they are just missing out on drinks together (admitted that's nice but worth the sacrifice)?
I stand with the above anon, everyone should do what floats their own boat if they're productive.

Also, learn how to use screen sharing if you really want to hands-on teach 1st years... the 1st years know how to use it. The only thing they're missing is hearing people complain in the office and drinks (neither of which are really the best things in the world compared to getting your work done and maybe, not these days, but maybe getting some free time).

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Re: Prediction: When will NYC lawyers return to the office?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:26 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:30 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:08 am
Feels like a lot of people on here are actively rooting for the variants to be terrible. If you hate big law this much, do something else lol. The vaccines seem to work against the variants, which is a fantastic thing. WFH is nice a couple days a week, but ridiculous to think permanent WFH is a good thing, especially for first year associates who have no idea what they're doing and really suffer for lack of day to day interaction with the folks in their class. We should be very happy that people seem to be getting vaccinated at a high rate, and that life can start to slowly become more normal.
I actually don't hate the work I do. I even like the work big law. I do hate not seeing my spouse or child for stretches of days when I am working at the office from 9 to 9 most days of the week. But yes, very terrible that I can see my family for minutes here and there (sometimes even eating lunch together for 15 minutes) while billing more and being more productive everyday without commutes. I really miss staying in the office until 2 am and then having to uber home and then get on the train 5 hours later to do it again.

And what was your first year like? Did your partners and sr associates come to your office to talk you through everything, because for me, it was 95% emails anyway. I guess I would have missed being able to see the partner's facial reactions to client's talking on conference calls for the 1 or 2 partners that wanted to take calls in their office together? What is this amazing learning that first years are missing out on? It sounds like they are just missing out on drinks together (admitted that's nice but worth the sacrifice)?
Maybe you already had a wife and kid when you started working and already had plenty going on. As someone who finished law school pretty young and moved to NY with no connections/never lived here before, I really valued being able to talk shit about partners etc with the other young associates and get drinks after work. Made my life a little more bearable. I am not someone who ties his entire image to work (quite the opposite actually) but when I got to NY it was literally all I had in the city. I know at my firm there are young associates now in a similar position. If I had to start work virtually due to a pandemic I would understand, but it would have been fairly demoralizing and I would have hoped things could get back to normal ASAP. I also would have been pretty pissed to hear more senior folks saying that they hope no one went to the office for another year, despite encouraging news about a successful vaccine that should be available to everyone 16+ by early summer. I think giving people the option for 2 days of WFH most weeks is reasonable and probably should/will happen. That being said,100% WFH indefinitely will create a bizarre, antisocial culture where relationships become even more transactional.

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Re: Prediction: When will NYC lawyers return to the office?

Post by nixy » Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:31 am

...or maybe people will find ways to make human connections and have interactions with people they don’t work with. (Obviously I get that’s not an option now, but once things go back to normal.)

Anyway, if your take is representative of how others feel, won’t there be enough people in the office that you won’t miss the 100% WFH crowd? (Who will also doubtless come into the office periodically, just maybe not 3 days a week.)

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Re: Prediction: When will NYC lawyers return to the office?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:45 am

Also I think there is a big miss here - nobody is saying office shouldn’t open when safe on an optional basis. Also nobody is saying offices should close down. BigLaw is as demanding a job as their is in the private sector...optional WFH will allow those with families to endure beyond what has happened in the past. If the whole model is geared toward only satisfying people fresh out of law school with no families and work as their only social outlet, then their is going to be major attrition of more senior people with families, etc. Anyone in the industry also knows that senior leverage is much more important now as it has ever been (clients are no longer allowing massive teams of first years and demanding much more senior attention).

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Re: Prediction: When will NYC lawyers return to the office?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:24 pm

Double post
Last edited by Anonymous User on Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Prediction: When will NYC lawyers return to the office?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:26 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:30 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:08 am
Feels like a lot of people on here are actively rooting for the variants to be terrible. If you hate big law this much, do something else lol. The vaccines seem to work against the variants, which is a fantastic thing. WFH is nice a couple days a week, but ridiculous to think permanent WFH is a good thing, especially for first year associates who have no idea what they're doing and really suffer for lack of day to day interaction with the folks in their class. We should be very happy that people seem to be getting vaccinated at a high rate, and that life can start to slowly become more normal.
I actually don't hate the work I do. I even like the work big law. I do hate not seeing my spouse or child for stretches of days when I am working at the office from 9 to 9 most days of the week. But yes, very terrible that I can see my family for minutes here and there (sometimes even eating lunch together for 15 minutes) while billing more and being more productive everyday without commutes. I really miss staying in the office until 2 am and then having to uber home and then get on the train 5 hours later to do it again.

And what was your first year like? Did your partners and sr associates come to your office to talk you through everything, because for me, it was 95% emails anyway. I guess I would have missed being able to see the partner's facial reactions to client's talking on conference calls for the 1 or 2 partners that wanted to take calls in their office together? What is this amazing learning that first years are missing out on? It sounds like they are just missing out on drinks together (admitted that's nice but worth the sacrifice)?
Maybe you already had a wife and kid when you started working and already had plenty going on. As someone who finished law school pretty young and moved to NY with no connections/never lived here before, I really valued being able to talk shit about partners etc with the other young associates and get drinks after work. Made my life a little more bearable. I am not someone who ties his entire image to work (quite the opposite actually) but when I got to NY it was literally all I had in the city. I know at my firm there are young associates now in a similar position. If I had to start work virtually due to a pandemic I would understand, but it would have been fairly demoralizing and I would have hoped things could get back to normal ASAP. I also would have been pretty pissed to hear more senior folks saying that they hope no one went to the office for another year, despite encouraging news about a successful vaccine that should be available to everyone 16+ by early summer. I think giving people the option for 2 days of WFH most weeks is reasonable and probably should/will happen. That being said,100% WFH indefinitely will create a bizarre, antisocial culture where relationships become even more transactional.
Anon quoted: I mean I’m not going to hang out with you or jrs for drinks after work now aside from the occasional group events (which everyone would still be at with WFH). It’s just not where I’m at in life, so why force people like me, who have a large increase in work satisfaction and quality of life with WFH, to come back in? Let people do what they want. The social drinking jrs will all still go in, and the rest of us can try and have a life outside of work a little easier.

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Re: Prediction: When will NYC lawyers return to the office?

Post by Dahl » Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:40 pm

It’s still bewildering to me that the people who want to go back think that means everyone else should be forced to as well. The idea that wfh, either partially or all the time, isn’t going to be part of the future for office workers is so outdated and archaic. Both millennials and Gen Z are far more willing to make demands in the workplace than generations before them, and they want this option.

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Re: Prediction: When will NYC lawyers return to the office?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:26 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:30 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:08 am
Feels like a lot of people on here are actively rooting for the variants to be terrible. If you hate big law this much, do something else lol. The vaccines seem to work against the variants, which is a fantastic thing. WFH is nice a couple days a week, but ridiculous to think permanent WFH is a good thing, especially for first year associates who have no idea what they're doing and really suffer for lack of day to day interaction with the folks in their class. We should be very happy that people seem to be getting vaccinated at a high rate, and that life can start to slowly become more normal.
I actually don't hate the work I do. I even like the work big law. I do hate not seeing my spouse or child for stretches of days when I am working at the office from 9 to 9 most days of the week. But yes, very terrible that I can see my family for minutes here and there (sometimes even eating lunch together for 15 minutes) while billing more and being more productive everyday without commutes. I really miss staying in the office until 2 am and then having to uber home and then get on the train 5 hours later to do it again.

And what was your first year like? Did your partners and sr associates come to your office to talk you through everything, because for me, it was 95% emails anyway. I guess I would have missed being able to see the partner's facial reactions to client's talking on conference calls for the 1 or 2 partners that wanted to take calls in their office together? What is this amazing learning that first years are missing out on? It sounds like they are just missing out on drinks together (admitted that's nice but worth the sacrifice)?
Maybe you already had a wife and kid when you started working and already had plenty going on. As someone who finished law school pretty young and moved to NY with no connections/never lived here before, I really valued being able to talk shit about partners etc with the other young associates and get drinks after work. Made my life a little more bearable. I am not someone who ties his entire image to work (quite the opposite actually) but when I got to NY it was literally all I had in the city. I know at my firm there are young associates now in a similar position. If I had to start work virtually due to a pandemic I would understand, but it would have been fairly demoralizing and I would have hoped things could get back to normal ASAP. I also would have been pretty pissed to hear more senior folks saying that they hope no one went to the office for another year, despite encouraging news about a successful vaccine that should be available to everyone 16+ by early summer. I think giving people the option for 2 days of WFH most weeks is reasonable and probably should/will happen. That being said,100% WFH indefinitely will create a bizarre, antisocial culture where relationships become even more transactional.
You haven't been in BIGLAW enough to appreciate that being in person doesn't make things less transactional. There's pressure to act and say things a certain way in corporate america. Any normal person who finds this suffocating will benefit tremendously from work from home.

Once the lockdowns are over, you'll find ways to socialize outside of work. That's what everyone wants to do anyways (who wants to spend their free time hanging out with their coworkers?)

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Re: Prediction: When will NYC lawyers return to the office?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:29 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:08 am
Feels like a lot of people on here are actively rooting for the variants to be terrible. If you hate big law this much, do something else lol. The vaccines seem to work against the variants, which is a fantastic thing. WFH is nice a couple days a week, but ridiculous to think permanent WFH is a good thing, especially for first year associates who have no idea what they're doing and really suffer for lack of day to day interaction with the folks in their class. We should be very happy that people seem to be getting vaccinated at a high rate, and that life can start to slowly become more normal.
Agree with the sentiment. Biglaw, non-NYC, lit, commute would be short anyway. I think people are also discounting the diffuse positive effects from moving and social interaction throughout the day (as a societal matter). WFH may be great in the short term or individual sense, but if pervasive and permanent, it seems anti-social. Maybe interacting with strangers or acquaintances is beneficial even if temporarily uncomfortable, awkward, or whatever. A world in which everyone stays in and misses out on the interactions with different people from different backgrounds (which generally breed tolerance, understanding, and perspective) seems like a worse one and only furthers isolation and retreat into one’s “in groups.” We’re social beings. So maybe some mixture or more flexibility is best. I’m not saying the typical office environment now is healthy, obviously most office white collar environments suck, (but they’re getting better, looking back over decades).
Social interaction in a white collar environment is completely fake and sterile. No thanks.

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Re: Prediction: When will NYC lawyers return to the office?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Mar 25, 2021 3:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:53 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:29 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:08 am
Feels like a lot of people on here are actively rooting for the variants to be terrible. If you hate big law this much, do something else lol. The vaccines seem to work against the variants, which is a fantastic thing. WFH is nice a couple days a week, but ridiculous to think permanent WFH is a good thing, especially for first year associates who have no idea what they're doing and really suffer for lack of day to day interaction with the folks in their class. We should be very happy that people seem to be getting vaccinated at a high rate, and that life can start to slowly become more normal.
Agree with the sentiment. Biglaw, non-NYC, lit, commute would be short anyway. I think people are also discounting the diffuse positive effects from moving and social interaction throughout the day (as a societal matter). WFH may be great in the short term or individual sense, but if pervasive and permanent, it seems anti-social. Maybe interacting with strangers or acquaintances is beneficial even if temporarily uncomfortable, awkward, or whatever. A world in which everyone stays in and misses out on the interactions with different people from different backgrounds (which generally breed tolerance, understanding, and perspective) seems like a worse one and only furthers isolation and retreat into one’s “in groups.” We’re social beings. So maybe some mixture or more flexibility is best. I’m not saying the typical office environment now is healthy, obviously most office white collar environments suck, (but they’re getting better, looking back over decades).
Social interaction in a white collar environment is completely fake and sterile. No thanks.
Then you’re doing it wrong. Look, I’m not saying it’s great or that it’s even good for you, particular person with your particular situation. I was making a broader point. And it’s not just your office peers. It’s walking on a street, public transportation, coffee shop, seeing and being seen, holding doors open, greeting people, walking to lunch places, etc... yes you can do these with WFH, but it’s on average to a lesser degree because people live in spaced out suburbs and encounter fewer people throughout the day. Disagree all you want with the degree that this matters. I’m just saying there’s *something* to it from a social perspective that is positive.

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Re: Prediction: When will NYC lawyers return to the office?

Post by AlbertParsons » Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:09 pm

Has anyone heard any info on when first years might be starting this year?

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Re: Prediction: When will NYC lawyers return to the office?

Post by nixy » Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 3:36 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:53 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:29 am
Agree with the sentiment. Biglaw, non-NYC, lit, commute would be short anyway. I think people are also discounting the diffuse positive effects from moving and social interaction throughout the day (as a societal matter). WFH may be great in the short term or individual sense, but if pervasive and permanent, it seems anti-social. Maybe interacting with strangers or acquaintances is beneficial even if temporarily uncomfortable, awkward, or whatever. A world in which everyone stays in and misses out on the interactions with different people from different backgrounds (which generally breed tolerance, understanding, and perspective) seems like a worse one and only furthers isolation and retreat into one’s “in groups.” We’re social beings. So maybe some mixture or more flexibility is best. I’m not saying the typical office environment now is healthy, obviously most office white collar environments suck, (but they’re getting better, looking back over decades).
Social interaction in a white collar environment is completely fake and sterile. No thanks.
Then you’re doing it wrong. Look, I’m not saying it’s great or that it’s even good for you, particular person with your particular situation. I was making a broader point. And it’s not just your office peers. It’s walking on a street, public transportation, coffee shop, seeing and being seen, holding doors open, greeting people, walking to lunch places, etc... yes you can do these with WFH, but it’s on average to a lesser degree because people live in spaced out suburbs and encounter fewer people throughout the day. Disagree all you want with the degree that this matters. I’m just saying there’s *something* to it from a social perspective that is positive.
I mean that’s basically an argument for not living in suburbs, and living in cities, but not for not having WFH. And plenty of the people who want WFH aren’t moving to the suburbs, they just don’t want to have to go to the office every day. So they can still go out and have the interactions you think are so important.

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Re: Prediction: When will NYC lawyers return to the office?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 3:36 pm
Then you’re doing it wrong. Look, I’m not saying it’s great or that it’s even good for you, particular person with your particular situation. I was making a broader point. And it’s not just your office peers. It’s walking on a street, public transportation, coffee shop, seeing and being seen, holding doors open, greeting people, walking to lunch places, etc... yes you can do these with WFH, but it’s on average to a lesser degree because people live in spaced out suburbs and encounter fewer people throughout the day. Disagree all you want with the degree that this matters. I’m just saying there’s *something* to it from a social perspective that is positive.
This has strong extrovert vibes. These experiences - when I have them at the frequency that I do when working in an office environment - are the opposite of positive for me. They’re draining, and they take up mental space in my brain that I’d rather use getting through my work and going home to things and people I actually enjoy. As the prior poster observed, for those of us who do want some degree of social encounters with other humans but find the workplace environment to be too much, why shouldn’t we be able to work from home and get our social interaction with strangers via our neighborhood coffee shop or whatever while others who benefit from working in an office continue to do so?

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Re: Prediction: When will NYC lawyers return to the office?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:16 pm

Yes, I agree with the last responses, I understand different preferences and support flexibility. Just wanted to raise the more philosophical question of an extreme everyone WFH scenario.

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Re: Prediction: When will NYC lawyers return to the office?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:26 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:30 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:08 am
Feels like a lot of people on here are actively rooting for the variants to be terrible. If you hate big law this much, do something else lol. The vaccines seem to work against the variants, which is a fantastic thing. WFH is nice a couple days a week, but ridiculous to think permanent WFH is a good thing, especially for first year associates who have no idea what they're doing and really suffer for lack of day to day interaction with the folks in their class. We should be very happy that people seem to be getting vaccinated at a high rate, and that life can start to slowly become more normal.
I actually don't hate the work I do. I even like the work big law. I do hate not seeing my spouse or child for stretches of days when I am working at the office from 9 to 9 most days of the week. But yes, very terrible that I can see my family for minutes here and there (sometimes even eating lunch together for 15 minutes) while billing more and being more productive everyday without commutes. I really miss staying in the office until 2 am and then having to uber home and then get on the train 5 hours later to do it again.

And what was your first year like? Did your partners and sr associates come to your office to talk you through everything, because for me, it was 95% emails anyway. I guess I would have missed being able to see the partner's facial reactions to client's talking on conference calls for the 1 or 2 partners that wanted to take calls in their office together? What is this amazing learning that first years are missing out on? It sounds like they are just missing out on drinks together (admitted that's nice but worth the sacrifice)?
Maybe you already had a wife and kid when you started working and already had plenty going on. As someone who finished law school pretty young and moved to NY with no connections/never lived here before, I really valued being able to talk shit about partners etc with the other young associates and get drinks after work. Made my life a little more bearable. I am not someone who ties his entire image to work (quite the opposite actually) but when I got to NY it was literally all I had in the city. I know at my firm there are young associates now in a similar position. If I had to start work virtually due to a pandemic I would understand, but it would have been fairly demoralizing and I would have hoped things could get back to normal ASAP. I also would have been pretty pissed to hear more senior folks saying that they hope no one went to the office for another year, despite encouraging news about a successful vaccine that should be available to everyone 16+ by early summer. I think giving people the option for 2 days of WFH most weeks is reasonable and probably should/will happen. That being said,100% WFH indefinitely will create a bizarre, antisocial culture where relationships become even more transactional.
You can still shoot the shit with fellow associates. Just message or text them. Really not that hard and if anything I've become closer to several midlevels and fellow juniors because of how much more open we are about life in the middle of all this.

I lost like half of my first year to COVID, so I got to see both. Sure, there are some nice things about the office like the camaraderie of in-person signings and talking to people at the coffee machine, but I really don't think any of that comes close to covering the toll of in-person expectations when offices re-open, and I'm saying that as a not too old single person with no spouse or kids, so I have it easy, relatively speaking.

If someone wants to 100% WFH and they respond to every email/call/revert in a timely fashion, I really don't understand why I, or anyone else, should care. I truly do not. Even if most of my firm did that and I was in office, I still wouldn't care. Being in person isn't going to make things any more or less transactional with people. You can still shoot the shit with your friends at the firm in-person or remotely and the partners are going to try to wring as many billable hours out of you as they can. The demands of clients force that reality irrespective of where someone's billing from.

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Re: Prediction: When will NYC lawyers return to the office?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:17 am

I think the best case is for it to just be more flexible going forward. People who want to go in every day still should be able to, but others who don't should not be forced to (unless in person i required for a certain reason on particular days).

There are just so many benefits to WFH: mental & physical health, environmental impact (less commuting & pollution, etc.)

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Re: Prediction: When will NYC lawyers return to the office?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:45 pm

New York opening vaccinations to those 30 and over - exciting!

Do we think this will change mandatory return dates. Still really hoping we are not required to go back until at least after Labor Day and hopefully 2022.

To address the above comments of people that prefer the office - I also think it makes sense to open the office on a voluntary basis this summer given this news.

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Re: Prediction: When will NYC lawyers return to the office?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:53 pm

Looks like the rumors mentioned a few days back are true, S&C is committing to having everyone back in the office early July.

Hope this doesn't mean the firm will have a strict no WFH going forward. Non-cynical interpretation is they want to offer some degree of in person for the summer associates. Cynical interpretation is the firm doesn't trust people to WFH and wants everyone back in the office and on a leash ASAP.

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Re: Prediction: When will NYC lawyers return to the office?

Post by abiglawyer » Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:08 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:26 am
Maybe you already had a wife and kid when you started working and already had plenty going on. As someone who finished law school pretty young and moved to NY with no connections/never lived here before, I really valued being able to talk shit about partners etc with the other young associates and get drinks after work. Made my life a little more bearable. I am not someone who ties his entire image to work (quite the opposite actually) but when I got to NY it was literally all I had in the city. I know at my firm there are young associates now in a similar position. If I had to start work virtually due to a pandemic I would understand, but it would have been fairly demoralizing and I would have hoped things could get back to normal ASAP. I also would have been pretty pissed to hear more senior folks saying that they hope no one went to the office for another year, despite encouraging news about a successful vaccine that should be available to everyone 16+ by early summer. I think giving people the option for 2 days of WFH most weeks is reasonable and probably should/will happen. That being said,100% WFH indefinitely will create a bizarre, antisocial culture where relationships become even more transactional.
Your inability to cultivate interests or a sense of self that is not dependent on your employment situation should not drag everyone else down to your level. Absurd that this has to be said.

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Re: Prediction: When will NYC lawyers return to the office?

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:03 pm

abiglawyer wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:08 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:26 am
Maybe you already had a wife and kid when you started working and already had plenty going on. As someone who finished law school pretty young and moved to NY with no connections/never lived here before, I really valued being able to talk shit about partners etc with the other young associates and get drinks after work. Made my life a little more bearable. I am not someone who ties his entire image to work (quite the opposite actually) but when I got to NY it was literally all I had in the city. I know at my firm there are young associates now in a similar position. If I had to start work virtually due to a pandemic I would understand, but it would have been fairly demoralizing and I would have hoped things could get back to normal ASAP. I also would have been pretty pissed to hear more senior folks saying that they hope no one went to the office for another year, despite encouraging news about a successful vaccine that should be available to everyone 16+ by early summer. I think giving people the option for 2 days of WFH most weeks is reasonable and probably should/will happen. That being said,100% WFH indefinitely will create a bizarre, antisocial culture where relationships become even more transactional.
Your inability to cultivate interests or a sense of self that is not dependent on your employment situation should not drag everyone else down to your level. Absurd that this has to be said.
I agree everyone has their own situation but this guy's also speaking from his own experience. Fine if you wanna make a point about his view but just don't be a jerk about it.

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Re: Prediction: When will NYC lawyers return to the office?

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:53 pm
Looks like the rumors mentioned a few days back are true, S&C is committing to having everyone back in the office early July.

Hope this doesn't mean the firm will have a strict no WFH going forward. Non-cynical interpretation is they want to offer some degree of in person for the summer associates. Cynical interpretation is the firm doesn't trust people to WFH and wants everyone back in the office and on a leash ASAP.

Could it be that simple that they own the building, and therefore have a vested long term real estate interest in getting folks back? Their rational may not apply to other shops.

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Re: Prediction: When will NYC lawyers return to the office?

Post by abiglawyer » Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:03 pm
I agree everyone has their own situation but this guy's also speaking from his own experience. Fine if you wanna make a point about his view but just don't be a jerk about it.
The world would be a better place if we started treating contemptible positions with the contempt they deserve. I have no patience for someone whose desire for repression is so profound that it threatens to diminish my own power of activity.

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Re: Prediction: When will NYC lawyers return to the office?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:57 pm

S&C announced on a firm-wide call this week that there will be a full re-opening of the office starting on July 6 (at least in NYC). Sounds like summers will be in the office then, and there will be outdoor social events. They didn't directly say we are mandatory in the office from then, but that seems to be the message.

No formal post-covid WFH policy as of yet, but we were told we should use our discretion to decide when we can effectively work from home or need to be in the office. Make of that what you will.

Any movement from other firms on return to office dates/WFH?

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Re: Prediction: When will NYC lawyers return to the office?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:20 pm

Other firms have said fall (after Labor Day) (Ropes, Milbank, a few others I believe) or 2022 (Willkie, WSGR, Cahill). Heard recently we will open a voluntary basis mid June and nothing required until 2022.

S&C owns their building. Many many people would leave of forced to go back over summer or 5 days a week even if after summer. Lateral market is very associate, counsel, partner friendly. Doesn’t really make any sense to force things ahead of other firms, and also doesn’t make sense to require 5 days a week. Firms will have to be flexible or risk an exodus

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