Prediction: When will NYC lawyers return to the office? Forum

[lolwutpar]

S&C announced on a firm-wide call this week that there will be a full re-opening of the office starting on July 6 (at least in NYC). Sounds like summers will be in the office then, and there will be outdoor social events. They didn't directly say we are mandatory in the office from then, but that seems to be the message.

No formal post-covid WFH policy as of yet, but we were told we should use our discretion to decide when we can effectively work from home or need to be in the office. Make of that what you will.

Any movement from other firms on return to office dates/WFH?

Considering it's been over a year, in my discretion I can always effectively work from home.

[OsamaJerry]

S&C announced on a firm-wide call this week that there will be a full re-opening of the office starting on July 6 (at least in NYC). Sounds like summers will be in the office then, and there will be outdoor social events. They didn't directly say we are mandatory in the office from then, but that seems to be the message.

No formal post-covid WFH policy as of yet, but we were told we should use our discretion to decide when we can effectively work from home or need to be in the office. Make of that what you will.

Any movement from other firms on return to office dates/WFH?

Considering it's been over a year, in my discretion I can always effectively work from home.

[Anonymous User]

Debevoise announced today that it is pushing back its target to September 7, after Labor Day. They noted that, given the progress with vaccines and the expected reduction in infection rates, they expect this date to stick.

The firm hasn't announced a post-Covid WFH policy, but have acknowledged that there will be increased flexibility compared to the pre-covid days.

[Anonymous User]

Obligatory first world problem venting/“kim there’s people that are dying” disclaimer, but my firm is making it increasingly apparent that they’re planning to go back to business as usual (i.e., no WFH other than one-offs), and I’m finding it difficult to not be openly resentful when partners allude to how great it will be to all be back together again. Virtually all of my pre-COVID work was done on calls or alone in my office, so the thought of taking like two hours out of my day every single day to put on office appropriate (and often dry clean only!) clothes and makeup and then pay money for the unpleasant commute to/from the office for the sole purpose of allowing the partners the satisfaction of surveying their kingdom of workers in the office is so frustrating.

[Anonymous User]

Obligatory first world problem venting/“kim there’s people that are dying” disclaimer, but my firm is making it increasingly apparent that they’re planning to go back to business as usual (i.e., no WFH other than one-offs), and I’m finding it difficult to not be openly resentful when partners allude to how great it will be to all be back together again. Virtually all of my pre-COVID work was done on calls or alone in my office, so the thought of taking like two hours out of my day every single day to put on office appropriate (and often dry clean only!) clothes and makeup and then pay money for the unpleasant commute to/from the office for the sole purpose of allowing the partners the satisfaction of surveying their kingdom of workers in the office is so frustrating.

Yep same here. I plan to continue WFH on Fridays until I get yelled at personally. And try to lateral somewhere I can WFH 3 days a week at least.

[Anonymous User]

Cooley, Goodwin, Fenwick, Kirkland and WSGR are allowing for remote postings which appear permanent. Lets change the market here folks.

[Anonymous User]

Completely agree that the time devoted to work clothes, makeup, and commuting vastly outweigh limited in-office communications with more senior colleagues re work questions

most people just want to be called
or emailed anyway

[Anonymous User]

Cooley, Goodwin, Fenwick, Kirkland and WSGR are allowing for remote postings which appear permanent. Lets change the market here folks.

I don’t disagree with you, but what would you suggest the average associate do? I lateraled less than a year ago, so I am not in a position to vote with my feet on this issue anytime soon, and I have not found law firms to be the kind of environment in which unsolicited dissenting opinions on workplace culture are appreciated.

[Anonymous User]

If you're corporate, i would suggest you lateral again. I doubt a firm would turn you down even if you lateraled recently.

[Anonymous User]

If you're corporate, i would suggest you lateral again. I doubt a firm would turn you down even if you lateraled recently.

I’m litigation.

[Anonymous User]

If you're corporate, i would suggest you lateral again. I doubt a firm would turn you down even if you lateraled recently.

I’m litigation.

I feel like “I want to work here because my current firm won’t let us be remote in the future” is a pretty good reason for a quick lateral (since it’s not like you could have planned that a year ago).

[Anonymous User]

Loose indications based on firm-wide update email that my V20 will be returning around Labor Day.

As a first year lit associate who has only known remote, it would be very depressing if I’m forced to go back every day. I would prefer 100% wfh, but I’ll appreciate if there is an actual wfh a couple of days per week policy.

Obviously there are certain things that WFH makes more difficult. Perhaps corporate practices are different but I feel fully integrated into my teams, I’m doing interesting work and feel like I’m making contributions.

I do think there is a marked difference between people with life outside of the firm in the city. Every moment wasted on public transport, office time when I could be working at home, is additional misery in which I can’t exercise, spend time with my partner, etc... Those without roots here are more eager to get back.

Work from home has felt like a miracle. I actually ENJOY this job (to an extent), but I despise having to go in to the office, pointless face time requirements, time wasting workplace banter (even though I like my colleagues). I even like this job more than I did as a summer, in some ways, since I’m not boiling my ass off in a button down every morning and night on the train, wasting time sitting in my office when I have nothing to do.

The most startling part of it is that my firm, and other firms, have been more profitable during wfh, and associates have billed more. In light of this, how the fuck are partners not thinking that permanent elective wfh needs to be part of the landscape? Really forces the conclusion that the partnership is willing to make objectively bad business decisions to satisfy their empirically wrong skepticism about remote work. Sad shit really.

If it seems like it will be possible to negotiate full time wfh as a mid level, then at least there is something new to look forward to.

[Joachim2017]

Loose indications based on firm-wide update email that my V20 will be returning around Labor Day.

As a first year lit associate who has only known remote, it would be very depressing if I’m forced to go back every day. I would prefer 100% wfh, but I’ll appreciate if there is an actual wfh a couple of days per week policy.

Obviously there are certain things that WFH makes more difficult. Perhaps corporate practices are different but I feel fully integrated into my teams, I’m doing interesting work and feel like I’m making contributions.

I do think there is a marked difference between people with life outside of the firm in the city. Every moment wasted on public transport, office time when I could be working at home, is additional misery in which I can’t exercise, spend time with my partner, etc... Those without roots here are more eager to get back.

Work from home has felt like a miracle. I actually ENJOY this job (to an extent), but I despise having to go in to the office, pointless face time requirements, time wasting workplace banter (even though I like my colleagues). I even like this job more than I did as a summer, in some ways, since I’m not boiling my ass off in a button down every morning and night on the train, wasting time sitting in my office when I have nothing to do.

The most startling part of it is that my firm, and other firms, have been more profitable during wfh, and associates have billed more. In light of this, how the fuck are partners not thinking that permanent elective wfh needs to be part of the landscape? Really forces the conclusion that the partnership is willing to make objectively bad business decisions to satisfy their empirically wrong skepticism about remote work. Sad shit really.

If it seems like it will be possible to negotiate full time wfh as a mid level, then at least there is something new to look forward to.

If you're a first year who, in your own words, "has only known remote," you are not in a credible position to make these sweeping statements about "objectively bad business decisions" and "empirically wrong skepticism." You're working with an artificial 1-year time frame (just to take one example, associates billing more in 1 unusual year is not a valuable data point b/c burnout and turnover are real), and you have no actual reference point (SA experience does not count, LOL). I'd be a little more open-minded and approach your firm's decisions with more humility and perspective when you're "back" in the office, if I were you.

[Anonymous User]

Loose indications based on firm-wide update email that my V20 will be returning around Labor Day.

As a first year lit associate who has only known remote, it would be very depressing if I’m forced to go back every day. I would prefer 100% wfh, but I’ll appreciate if there is an actual wfh a couple of days per week policy.

Obviously there are certain things that WFH makes more difficult. Perhaps corporate practices are different but I feel fully integrated into my teams, I’m doing interesting work and feel like I’m making contributions.

I do think there is a marked difference between people with life outside of the firm in the city. Every moment wasted on public transport, office time when I could be working at home, is additional misery in which I can’t exercise, spend time with my partner, etc... Those without roots here are more eager to get back.

Work from home has felt like a miracle. I actually ENJOY this job (to an extent), but I despise having to go in to the office, pointless face time requirements, time wasting workplace banter (even though I like my colleagues). I even like this job more than I did as a summer, in some ways, since I’m not boiling my ass off in a button down every morning and night on the train, wasting time sitting in my office when I have nothing to do.

The most startling part of it is that my firm, and other firms, have been more profitable during wfh, and associates have billed more. In light of this, how the fuck are partners not thinking that permanent elective wfh needs to be part of the landscape? Really forces the conclusion that the partnership is willing to make objectively bad business decisions to satisfy their empirically wrong skepticism about remote work. Sad shit really.

If it seems like it will be possible to negotiate full time wfh as a mid level, then at least there is something new to look forward to.

If you're a first year who, in your own words, "has only known remote," you are not in a credible position to make these sweeping statements about "objectively bad business decisions" and "empirically wrong skepticism." You're working with an artificial 1-year time frame (just to take one example, associates billing more in 1 unusual year is not a valuable data point b/c burnout and turnover are real), and you have no actual reference point (SA experience does not count, LOL). I'd be a little more open-minded and approach your firm's decisions with more humility and perspective when you're "back" in the office, if I were you.

No reason to be open minded or humble about a decision that makes my life significantly worse for no actual benefit to me. Sure, just because we’re billing more while remote doesn’t necessarily mean that remote work is “good” for the business. I grant that obviously my interests are different from the firm’s. But everything I hear from mine and other firms about the urgent need to go back involves words like “mentorship” and “firm culture.” Hard not to see it as a reflexive return to normalcy.

[blair.waldorf]

Loose indications based on firm-wide update email that my V20 will be returning around Labor Day.

As a first year lit associate who has only known remote, it would be very depressing if I’m forced to go back every day. I would prefer 100% wfh, but I’ll appreciate if there is an actual wfh a couple of days per week policy.

Obviously there are certain things that WFH makes more difficult. Perhaps corporate practices are different but I feel fully integrated into my teams, I’m doing interesting work and feel like I’m making contributions.

I do think there is a marked difference between people with life outside of the firm in the city. Every moment wasted on public transport, office time when I could be working at home, is additional misery in which I can’t exercise, spend time with my partner, etc... Those without roots here are more eager to get back.

Work from home has felt like a miracle. I actually ENJOY this job (to an extent), but I despise having to go in to the office, pointless face time requirements, time wasting workplace banter (even though I like my colleagues). I even like this job more than I did as a summer, in some ways, since I’m not boiling my ass off in a button down every morning and night on the train, wasting time sitting in my office when I have nothing to do.

The most startling part of it is that my firm, and other firms, have been more profitable during wfh, and associates have billed more. In light of this, how the fuck are partners not thinking that permanent elective wfh needs to be part of the landscape? Really forces the conclusion that the partnership is willing to make objectively bad business decisions to satisfy their empirically wrong skepticism about remote work. Sad shit really.

If it seems like it will be possible to negotiate full time wfh as a mid level, then at least there is something new to look forward to.

If you're a first year who, in your own words, "has only known remote," you are not in a credible position to make these sweeping statements about "objectively bad business decisions" and "empirically wrong skepticism." You're working with an artificial 1-year time frame (just to take one example, associates billing more in 1 unusual year is not a valuable data point b/c burnout and turnover are real), and you have no actual reference point (SA experience does not count, LOL). I'd be a little more open-minded and approach your firm's decisions with more humility and perspective when you're "back" in the office, if I were you.

Oh my god STFU.

[Anonymous User]

"culture" and "mentorship" are literally the worst reasons to return to the office. And, so fake. I've been in an office a while pre-pandemic and I can tell you neither are compelling reasons to go back. Most people send emails, no one really "mentors" in the true sense of the word and culture? Its a job. Most of us have lives outside of work that we would rather enjoy. Its boomer partners wanting their kingdom back. Plain and simple. I've learned plenty being remote. I see no difference.

[Dahl]

If you're a first year who, in your own words, "has only known remote," you are not in a credible position to make these sweeping statements about "objectively bad business decisions" and "empirically wrong skepticism." You're working with an artificial 1-year time frame (just to take one example, associates billing more in 1 unusual year is not a valuable data point b/c burnout and turnover are real), and you have no actual reference point (SA experience does not count, LOL). I'd be a little more open-minded and approach your firm's decisions with more humility and perspective when you're "back" in the office, if I were you.

This is terrible advice, which boils down to “be a doormat and ignore what makes you happy.”

[musafir]

ATL has started tracking:

https://abovethelaw.com/2021/04/law-off ... cker-2021/

[jacketyellow]

Loose indications based on firm-wide update email that my V20 will be returning around Labor Day.

As a first year lit associate who has only known remote, it would be very depressing if I’m forced to go back every day. I would prefer 100% wfh, but I’ll appreciate if there is an actual wfh a couple of days per week policy.

Obviously there are certain things that WFH makes more difficult. Perhaps corporate practices are different but I feel fully integrated into my teams, I’m doing interesting work and feel like I’m making contributions.

I do think there is a marked difference between people with life outside of the firm in the city. Every moment wasted on public transport, office time when I could be working at home, is additional misery in which I can’t exercise, spend time with my partner, etc... Those without roots here are more eager to get back.

Work from home has felt like a miracle. I actually ENJOY this job (to an extent), but I despise having to go in to the office, pointless face time requirements, time wasting workplace banter (even though I like my colleagues). I even like this job more than I did as a summer, in some ways, since I’m not boiling my ass off in a button down every morning and night on the train, wasting time sitting in my office when I have nothing to do.

The most startling part of it is that my firm, and other firms, have been more profitable during wfh, and associates have billed more. In light of this, how the fuck are partners not thinking that permanent elective wfh needs to be part of the landscape? Really forces the conclusion that the partnership is willing to make objectively bad business decisions to satisfy their empirically wrong skepticism about remote work. Sad shit really.

If it seems like it will be possible to negotiate full time wfh as a mid level, then at least there is something new to look forward to.

If you're a first year who, in your own words, "has only known remote," you are not in a credible position to make these sweeping statements about "objectively bad business decisions" and "empirically wrong skepticism." You're working with an artificial 1-year time frame (just to take one example, associates billing more in 1 unusual year is not a valuable data point b/c burnout and turnover are real), and you have no actual reference point (SA experience does not count, LOL). I'd be a little more open-minded and approach your firm's decisions with more humility and perspective when you're "back" in the office, if I were you.

Girl, stfu.

[Anonymous User]

DPW coming back to the office after Labor Day, with a permanent “hybrid” model. What exactly the hybrid model is is TBD.

[Anonymous User]

That’s awesome news about DPW!

[Anonymous User]

That’s a good signal coming from DPW — weren’t they one of the most notoriously facetime-y firms, pre COVID? I’m sure others will follow suit, or perhaps go even further

[Anonymous User]

DPW coming back to the office after Labor Day, with a permanent “hybrid” model. What exactly the hybrid model is is TBD.

.

[Anonymous User]

DPW coming back to the office after Labor Day, with a permanent “hybrid” model. What exactly the hybrid model is is TBD.

Any additional color on what exactly was communicated?

[Anonymous User]

That’s a good signal coming from DPW — weren’t they one of the most notoriously facetime-y firms, pre COVID? I’m sure others will follow suit, or perhaps go even further

I think DPW required attorneys to sign in to the office so they could track how long people were there. So yes, very FaceTime-oriented. Great news if they allow WFH.