Prediction: When will NYC lawyers return to the office? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I assume all it's going to take is one firm to come out and say they are going to use a flexible WFH schedule for the rest of the firms to follow, no?

If not, and there becomes a mix of firms who allow flexible work weeks and those who don't, I predict that rankings and such are going to be shaken up quite a bit since it seems like most associates really value WFH.

I can't go back to going into the office every day of the week. I just can't. I have a wife and kid and I've loved WFH and not having to commute. Going back to the painful daily grind will really make me unhappy.

[Lesion of Doom]

I assume all it's going to take is one firm to come out and say they are going to use a flexible WFH schedule for the rest of the firms to follow, no?

If not, and there becomes a mix of firms who allow flexible work weeks and those who don't, I predict that rankings and such are going to be shaken up quite a bit since it seems like most associates really value WFH.

I would guess that NYC will lead the way. It's going to be more difficult for regional firms that have a physical connection to many of their clients, and I suspect they'll end up engaged in a game of chicken.

But for NYC offices that typically can't beat shops with superior reputations, WFH would be one way to compete. Query whether WFH also may become a platform by which firms step off of the Cravath compensation model going forward. I'd happily pay 10k a year or whatever to be WFH if that's what it took. More than that, actually.

[Anonymous User]

I assume all it's going to take is one firm to come out and say they are going to use a flexible WFH schedule for the rest of the firms to follow, no?

If not, and there becomes a mix of firms who allow flexible work weeks and those who don't, I predict that rankings and such are going to be shaken up quite a bit since it seems like most associates really value WFH.

I would guess that NYC will lead the way. It's going to be more difficult for regional firms that have a physical connection to many of their clients, and I suspect they'll end up engaged in a game of chicken.

But for NYC offices that typically can't beat shops with superior reputations, WFH would be one way to compete. Query whether WFH also may become a platform by which firms step off of the Cravath compensation model going forward. I'd happily pay 10k a year or whatever to be WFH if that's what it took. More than that, actually.

Interesting thoughts.However, couldn't WFH result in more $$ saved for the firms, leading to an increase in salaries?

[Anonymous User]

I assume all it's going to take is one firm to come out and say they are going to use a flexible WFH schedule for the rest of the firms to follow, no?

If not, and there becomes a mix of firms who allow flexible work weeks and those who don't, I predict that rankings and such are going to be shaken up quite a bit since it seems like most associates really value WFH.

I would guess that NYC will lead the way. It's going to be more difficult for regional firms that have a physical connection to many of their clients, and I suspect they'll end up engaged in a game of chicken.

But for NYC offices that typically can't beat shops with superior reputations, WFH would be one way to compete. Query whether WFH also may become a platform by which firms step off of the Cravath compensation model going forward. I'd happily pay 10k a year or whatever to be WFH if that's what it took. More than that, actually.

Interesting thoughts.However, couldn't WFH result in more $$ saved for the firms, leading to an increase in salaries?

It was said in another thread that Goodwin would not reduce salaries.

[gontid]

People here seem overly optimistic about the virus. Current forecast says there can be as many as 200k death in the US over the winter if the South African variant continues to spread rapidly.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN2AV1T1

[feminist.supporter]

People here seem overly optimistic about the virus. Current forecast says there can be as many as 200k death in the US over the winter if the South African variant continues to spread rapidly.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN2AV1T1

nah man, it's just a flu. Feel me?

[Anonymous User]

Seems like some more traction:

- Nixon Peabody - July 6
- McGurieWoods - June 30
- Ropes - Labor Day
- Willkie - 2022
- WSGR - 2022

Will be interesting to see if 2022 becomes the norm with Willkie moving. June 30th would be brutal right before a holiday.

All say that WFH is here to stay going forward in some significant form. This is all from Law.com.

[Anonymous User]

Seems like some more traction:

- Nixon Peabody - July 6
- McGurieWoods - June 30
- Ropes - Labor Day
- Willkie - 2022
- WSGR - 2022

Will be interesting to see if 2022 becomes the norm with Willkie moving. June 30th would be brutal right before a holiday.

All say that WFH is here to stay going forward in some significant form. This is all from Law.com.

Uhh not sure where you heard 2022 for Willkie. I work there and I haven’t heard that at all

[Anonymous User]

Saw it on Law.com, quoting the chairman saying no mandatory return in 2021

[Anonymous User]

Seems like some more traction:

- Nixon Peabody - July 6
- McGurieWoods - June 30
- Ropes - Labor Day
- Willkie - 2022
- WSGR - 2022

Will be interesting to see if 2022 becomes the norm with Willkie moving. June 30th would be brutal right before a holiday.

All say that WFH is here to stay going forward in some significant form. This is all from Law.com.

Uhh not sure where you heard 2022 for Willkie. I work there and I haven’t heard that at all

+1

[Anonymous User]

It’s from a law.com article Friday.

[Anonymous User]

I wonder if firms realize the volume of their associates who will quit if required to report M-F. It's unthinkable for many now that they've experienced more family time, better relationships with their spouses, overall ability to reclaim a touch more of your day, etc. Other than the top shops, firms requiring M-F will be at a massive disadvantage in hiring compared to those offering something more flexible.

+1. WFH is the difference between me leaving or not at this point.

+1. I'd probably quit without something else lined up if forced to report 5 days a week.

This mindset sucks. People that are unwilling to take work seriously are going to leverage this to completely ruin workplace culture going forward. Some of us - especially extroverts - are dying with WFH and need a vibrant return to the office. There are plenty of studies about lagging productivity, less personal happiness with work, etc during pandemic - especially for younger people. If you guys don't want to ever go back to work, good riddance. You should quit.

[lolwutpar]

I wonder if firms realize the volume of their associates who will quit if required to report M-F. It's unthinkable for many now that they've experienced more family time, better relationships with their spouses, overall ability to reclaim a touch more of your day, etc. Other than the top shops, firms requiring M-F will be at a massive disadvantage in hiring compared to those offering something more flexible.

+1. WFH is the difference between me leaving or not at this point.

+1. I'd probably quit without something else lined up if forced to report 5 days a week.

This mindset sucks. People that are unwilling to take work seriously are going to leverage this to completely ruin workplace culture going forward. Some of us - especially extroverts - are dying with WFH and need a vibrant return to the office. There are plenty of studies about lagging productivity, less personal happiness with work, etc during pandemic - especially for younger people. If you guys don't want to ever go back to work, good riddance. You should quit.

Why would you say something controversial yet so brave?

[Excellent117]

This mindset sucks. People that are unwilling to take work seriously are going to leverage this to completely ruin workplace culture going forward. Some of us - especially extroverts - are dying with WFH and need a vibrant return to the office. There are plenty of studies about lagging productivity, less personal happiness with work, etc during pandemic - especially for younger people. If you guys don't want to ever go back to work, good riddance. You should quit.

And you really wonder why so many of us might not want to have to go back into the office any more than we have to?

[clone22]

I wonder if firms realize the volume of their associates who will quit if required to report M-F. It's unthinkable for many now that they've experienced more family time, better relationships with their spouses, overall ability to reclaim a touch more of your day, etc. Other than the top shops, firms requiring M-F will be at a massive disadvantage in hiring compared to those offering something more flexible.

+1. WFH is the difference between me leaving or not at this point.

+1. I'd probably quit without something else lined up if forced to report 5 days a week.

This mindset sucks. People that are unwilling to take work seriously are going to leverage this to completely ruin workplace culture going forward. Some of us - especially extroverts - are dying with WFH and need a vibrant return to the office. There are plenty of studies about lagging productivity, less personal happiness with work, etc during pandemic - especially for younger people. If you guys don't want to ever go back to work, good riddance. You should quit.

I am 99% certain that this is a troll or a law student. I literally cannot picture anyone at work say this with a straight face (even senior partners are coming to appreciate that tech allows us to do basically everything we could before, but from the comforts of our own homes).

Personally, I've mentioned to my bosses multiple times pre-COVID that I would be willing to take a pay cut for the flexibility of working from home. At this point, if my firm force everyone to go back to the office 5 days a week, but another firm paying market permits 100% WFH, I'm walking across the street.

[Anonymous User]

I wonder if firms realize the volume of their associates who will quit if required to report M-F. It's unthinkable for many now that they've experienced more family time, better relationships with their spouses, overall ability to reclaim a touch more of your day, etc. Other than the top shops, firms requiring M-F will be at a massive disadvantage in hiring compared to those offering something more flexible.

+1. WFH is the difference between me leaving or not at this point.

+1. I'd probably quit without something else lined up if forced to report 5 days a week.

This mindset sucks. People that are unwilling to take work seriously are going to leverage this to completely ruin workplace culture going forward. Some of us - especially extroverts - are dying with WFH and need a vibrant return to the office. There are plenty of studies about lagging productivity, less personal happiness with work, etc during pandemic - especially for younger people. If you guys don't want to ever go back to work, good riddance. You should quit.

Our firm just did a survey, and I really hope there's not enough insane people who derive all of their identity from their job to convince firms to go back to destroying any semblance of family life for associates.

[bigboybob]

So I think what’s going to happen is WFH will now be a competitive benefit that firms recruit on. If the talent wants WFH, the talent will go to firms that offer it, and other firms will then lose out. All it takes is one V50 (let’s be honest, if it pays market doesn’t matter the ranking) to start potching first partners then associates. Market will respond to people’s desire for WFH

[cisscum]

I wonder if firms realize the volume of their associates who will quit if required to report M-F. It's unthinkable for many now that they've experienced more family time, better relationships with their spouses, overall ability to reclaim a touch more of your day, etc. Other than the top shops, firms requiring M-F will be at a massive disadvantage in hiring compared to those offering something more flexible.

+1. WFH is the difference between me leaving or not at this point.

+1. I'd probably quit without something else lined up if forced to report 5 days a week.

This mindset sucks. People that are unwilling to take work seriously are going to leverage this to completely ruin workplace culture going forward. Some of us - especially extroverts - are dying with WFH and need a vibrant return to the office. There are plenty of studies about lagging productivity, less personal happiness with work, etc during pandemic - especially for younger people. If you guys don't want to ever go back to work, good riddance. You should quit.

You're an associate, why do you care about productivity when you don't have equity? In any case, I can't speak for other industries but biglaw has been booming throughout the pandemic. Productivity hasn't been an issue.

[randomthrowaway]

Some of us - especially extroverts - are dying with WFH and need a vibrant return to the office.

This has to be a troll, right?

[nixy]

This mindset sucks. People that are unwilling to take work seriously are going to leverage this to completely ruin workplace culture going forward. Some of us - especially extroverts - are dying with WFH and need a vibrant return to the office. There are plenty of studies about lagging productivity, less personal happiness with work, etc during pandemic - especially for younger people. If you guys don't want to ever go back to work, good riddance. You should quit.

So, wanting to work at home rather than in an office doesn't mean someone isn't taking work seriously; studies about issues with work when people have been forced to WFH at short notice during a pandemic don't actually tell you whether WFH is the problem (lots of people are less productive during the pandemic because PANDEMIC); just as many studies have shown there's no issue with WFH and that many people are more productive WFH; and this thread is about biglaw, a job that many people notoriously hate but do for the money/as a stepping stone to something else. Of course some people don't want to go back.

In any case, why would a firm offering WFH at least some number of days in a week be a problem for you? You can hang out in the office with your fellow desperate extroverts.

[avenuem]

So, wanting to work at home rather than in an office doesn't mean someone isn't taking work seriously; studies about issues with work when people have been forced to WFH at short notice during a pandemic don't actually tell you whether WFH is the problem (lots of people are less productive during the pandemic because PANDEMIC); just as many studies have shown there's no issue with WFH and that many people are more productive WFH; and this thread is about biglaw, a job that many people notoriously hate but do for the money/as a stepping stone to something else. Of course some people don't want to go back.

In any case, why would a firm offering WFH at least some number of days in a week be a problem for you? You can hang out in the office with your fellow desperate extroverts.

This is why firms should only require in-person for associates who are unproductive or have a legitimate need to be there. Making all associates come in because of a few bad apples (who can be replaced) is unethical. If I have to come in, I want nothing short of a corner office that overlooks Dorsia and a better name-plate than my V5 had during the summer.

[Anonymous User]

Any updates on mandatory returns?

[Anonymous User]

My Latham office (non-NYC) has not given official word, but the messaging has consistently been not before the fall and even then only on a voluntary basis. Realistically, that means 2022.

[Anonymous User]

honestly, with the amount of people on TLS here right now who hate going into the office, we could start our own virtual law firm. We could undercut rates significantly bc we don't have a physical space, get paid well, and have work-life balance. Seems like a win. And maybe have like cool retreats like once or twice a year together in exotic locations to keep our culture alive.

[Anonymous User]

Any updates on returns? Really hoping nobody is required to return in the middle of summer after all we have gone through in the last year...