Dealing with Paycuts

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Re: Dealing with Paycuts

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:55 pm

I’ve tried to apply to a few places. My close friend is at a firm that didn’t cut, but she asked a partner she’s close to to submit me for consideration and the partner was candid and suggested I directly apply because the firm probably isn’t going to consider someone with a referral fee (I think her firm is like $30k or something). However, for what it’s worth, I’m not in BK, and BK can probably still justify a referral fee or recruiter fee.

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Re: Dealing with Paycuts

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:14 am

I think you should consider taking the pay cut rather than going to bankruptcy and being swamped beyond belief.

My problem, being in bankruptcy, is that I am swamped and my pay has been cut. So we have to carry some litigator or Corp associate that is not busy, and reduce our pay to prevent them from being laid off.

That’s fine but maybe slower groups can help us and take some of the burden? For example, there is some basic legal research that they can do.

Maybe the partners can true us up when this is all over?

It’s just like tone death to cut a bankruptcy associates pay right now. The lateral market is hot in bankruptcy (but I don’t want to move) and we are advising the firms clients through these challenging times. We also have to spend time getting fees paid in bankruptcy court so we are literally collecting firm receivables.

One of the above posters are right some of these large bankruptcy groups will lay off associates and have high turnover.

The one thing I am considering is to maybe lateral back to my home market. I don’t want to live so far away from home when we go through round 2 or 3.

1styearlateral

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Re: Dealing with Paycuts

Post by 1styearlateral » Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:36 am

I didn't see it mentioned in this thread, but did anyone consider that the pandemic/recession has adversely affected most businesses' revenue streams? If the clients aren't getting paid, then they are not likely paying their legal bills. I know we've stopped paying all vendors, which includes our law firms, and look to pay them in installments starting several months from now. If many clients do this, firms are looking at greatly reduced revenue for the next several months, which means pay cuts are justified if the firm cannot carry those costs in the meantime.

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unlicensedpotato

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Re: Dealing with Paycuts

Post by unlicensedpotato » Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:52 am

1styearlateral wrote:I didn't see it mentioned in this thread, but did anyone consider that the pandemic/recession has adversely affected most businesses' revenue streams? If the clients aren't getting paid, then they are not likely paying their legal bills. I know we've stopped paying all vendors, which includes our law firms, and look to pay them in installments starting several months from now. If many clients do this, firms are looking at greatly reduced revenue for the next several months, which means pay cuts are justified if the firm cannot carry those costs in the meantime.
lol

The Lsat Airbender

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Re: Dealing with Paycuts

Post by The Lsat Airbender » Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:00 pm

1styearlateral wrote: did anyone consider that the pandemic/recession has adversely affected most businesses' revenue streams?
Damn, probably true. Never thought this might be happening. Thanks for your insight.

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Re: Dealing with Paycuts

Post by nixy » Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:13 pm

The Lsat Airbender wrote:
1styearlateral wrote: did anyone consider that the pandemic/recession has adversely affected most businesses' revenue streams?
Damn, probably true. Never thought this might be happening. Thanks for your insight.
:lol:

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cavalier1138

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Re: Dealing with Paycuts

Post by cavalier1138 » Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:27 pm

nixy wrote:
The Lsat Airbender wrote:
1styearlateral wrote: did anyone consider that the pandemic/recession has adversely affected most businesses' revenue streams?
Damn, probably true. Never thought this might be happening. Thanks for your insight.
:lol:
Someone should probably form a task force or something to look into that...

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Re: Dealing with Paycuts

Post by JusticeChuckleNutz » Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:00 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
nixy wrote:
The Lsat Airbender wrote:
1styearlateral wrote: did anyone consider that the pandemic/recession has adversely affected most businesses' revenue streams?
Damn, probably true. Never thought this might be happening. Thanks for your insight.
:lol:
Someone should probably form a task force or something to look into that...
I think the proper composition of this "task force" would be Ivanka, Kushner, and no drs. or health officials whatsoever

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Re: Dealing with Paycuts

Post by LBJ's Hair » Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:14 pm

1styearlateral wrote:I didn't see it mentioned in this thread, but did anyone consider that the pandemic/recession has adversely affected most businesses' revenue streams? If the clients aren't getting paid, then they are not likely paying their legal bills. I know we've stopped paying all vendors, which includes our law firms, and look to pay them in installments starting several months from now. If many clients do this, firms are looking at greatly reduced revenue for the next several months, which means pay cuts are justified if the firm cannot carry those costs in the meantime.
Comment of the year

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Re: Dealing with Paycuts

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:17 pm

LBJ's Hair wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:I didn't see it mentioned in this thread, but did anyone consider that the pandemic/recession has adversely affected most businesses' revenue streams? If the clients aren't getting paid, then they are not likely paying their legal bills. I know we've stopped paying all vendors, which includes our law firms, and look to pay them in installments starting several months from now. If many clients do this, firms are looking at greatly reduced revenue for the next several months, which means pay cuts are justified if the firm cannot carry those costs in the meantime.
Comment of the year
So your company’s insolvent...gotta pay your bankruptcy lawyers..

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Re: Dealing with Paycuts

Post by 1styearlateral » Fri May 01, 2020 1:08 am

LBJ's Hair wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:I didn't see it mentioned in this thread, but did anyone consider that the pandemic/recession has adversely affected most businesses' revenue streams? If the clients aren't getting paid, then they are not likely paying their legal bills. I know we've stopped paying all vendors, which includes our law firms, and look to pay them in installments starting several months from now. If many clients do this, firms are looking at greatly reduced revenue for the next several months, which means pay cuts are justified if the firm cannot carry those costs in the meantime.
Comment of the year
Not bad for only being April.

But seriously, why are there so many people in this thread boo hooing. Yes, it sucks to be working more and getting paid less—we can all get behind that. But everyone is making cuts and lots of people are losing their jobs. Just go look on your LinkedIn feeds. Why do attorneys think their law firms are special? It’s just a business in the service industry like any other...

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Re: Dealing with Paycuts

Post by cavalier1138 » Fri May 01, 2020 6:34 am

1styearlateral wrote:But seriously, why are there so many people in this thread boo hooing. Yes, it sucks to be working more and getting paid less—we can all get behind that. But everyone is making cuts and lots of people are losing their jobs. Just go look on your LinkedIn feeds. Why do attorneys think their law firms are special? It’s just a business in the service industry like any other...
When someone you know complains that they're really hungry, do you always let them know that there are children starving around the world?

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Re: Dealing with Paycuts

Post by QContinuum » Fri May 01, 2020 9:00 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:But seriously, why are there so many people in this thread boo hooing. Yes, it sucks to be working more and getting paid less—we can all get behind that. But everyone is making cuts and lots of people are losing their jobs. Just go look on your LinkedIn feeds. Why do attorneys think their law firms are special? It’s just a business in the service industry like any other...
When someone you know complains that they're really hungry, do you always let them know that there are children starving around the world?
Yea, I can't understand that attitude. It's like telling a victim of emotional abuse, "hey, didja realize there are many folks who're being physically AND emotionally abused"? Or telling adult victims of physical and emotional abuse, "hey, you realize there are children being molested out there!" The tragedy of child molestation doesn't mean adult abuse victims aren't victims.

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Re: Dealing with Paycuts

Post by ghostoftraynor » Fri May 01, 2020 10:12 pm

It's definitely a great problem to have a job and being working a ton. But, that doesn't mean it doesn't suck. It would be different if OP wasn't self-aware, but he/she clearly recognizes there are much worse positions to be in. I'm all for TLS being a place for lawyers to vent. Nobody thinks law firms are special. This is just a website specifically designed for lawyers.

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Re: Dealing with Paycuts

Post by sparty99 » Fri May 01, 2020 10:30 pm

QContinuum wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:But seriously, why are there so many people in this thread boo hooing. Yes, it sucks to be working more and getting paid less—we can all get behind that. But everyone is making cuts and lots of people are losing their jobs. Just go look on your LinkedIn feeds. Why do attorneys think their law firms are special? It’s just a business in the service industry like any other...
When someone you know complains that they're really hungry, do you always let them know that there are children starving around the world?
Yea, I can't understand that attitude. It's like telling a victim of emotional abuse, "hey, didja realize there are many folks who're being physically AND emotionally abused"? Or telling adult victims of physical and emotional abuse, "hey, you realize there are children being molested out there!" The tragedy of child molestation doesn't mean adult abuse victims aren't victims.
Stupid analogies...

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Re: Dealing with Paycuts

Post by Anonymous User » Sat May 02, 2020 11:20 am

Op here mostly over it. People at my firm are talking about it. But I have not openly talked about it. It’s not like it happened and they are like everyone shut up and be grateful.

I really like where I work and I don’t want to leave. However, I am debating whether I should now make an effort to move back to my home state. Family and community matters more than the stress and bull shit of big law.

And despite my pay cut, I am going to continue to make weekly donations to my local food bank. If we go through a second round or cuts this may be something that I won’t be able to do. My rent is to dam high.

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Re: Dealing with Paycuts

Post by Clytemnestra3 » Sun May 03, 2020 2:12 am

OP, do you have a good enough relationship with a partner that you could sit down with him or her and ask what the firm’s plan is (I.e. how long the cut will last? Whether you’ll be made whole? How cuts are distributed?). Perhaps you could also let them know that morale generally is down and that some clarity would be helpful.

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Re: Dealing with Paycuts

Post by Newbie2TLS » Sun May 03, 2020 3:38 am

QContinuum wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:But seriously, why are there so many people in this thread boo hooing. Yes, it sucks to be working more and getting paid less—we can all get behind that. But everyone is making cuts and lots of people are losing their jobs. Just go look on your LinkedIn feeds. Why do attorneys think their law firms are special? It’s just a business in the service industry like any other...
When someone you know complains that they're really hungry, do you always let them know that there are children starving around the world?
Yea, I can't understand that attitude. It's like telling a victim of emotional abuse, "hey, didja realize there are many folks who're being physically AND emotionally abused"? Or telling adult victims of physical and emotional abuse, "hey, you realize there are children being molested out there!" The tragedy of child molestation doesn't mean adult abuse victims aren't victims.
Stop the press! This is the new comment of the year. Wow. Took, like what, only 3 posts since the last comment of the year was declared just a bit further up this threat. Wow. Salary cuts akin to emotional abuse. Lol Every now and then I get smacked in the face with a reminder of how entitled some lawyers can be.

Anyway, I know firms are firing lawyers and it’s getting worse. I work in a V30. A few friends of mine already got the boot in other firms. One voluntarily left her job to go to a different firm, who then rescinded the offer cause of this coronavirus recession, so now she’s out of a job altogether and is having a tough time landing something. I say be lucky you have a job. The other firms OP is thinking aren’t laying people off or reducing salaries are either doing one or both of those things (but isn’t public yet) or they’re about to be doing it. Many firms that have held off on reducing pay or firing folks have done so cause they’re in a decent financial position (I.e don’t owe money, prepared for a recession that was already forecasted for this year regardless of coronavirus, etc.), but are hoping that things start going back to normal this month as the country opens back up. When by the end of this month people realize the opening is premature and the virus is spreading and shutdown measures need to be reinstated (further hurting the economy and clients), the firms that didn’t cut pay or layoff will start doing it. It might not affect the busy groups, but I expect firms to hold off on hiring new attorneys across the board (meaning that OP might not get fired for being busy but will still have a hard time finding a new job).

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Re: Dealing with Paycuts

Post by Anonymous User » Sun May 03, 2020 10:33 am

Clytemnestra3 wrote:OP, do you have a good enough relationship with a partner that you could sit down with him or her and ask what the firm’s plan is (I.e. how long the cut will last? Whether you’ll be made whole? How cuts are distributed?). Perhaps you could also let them know that morale generally is down and that some clarity would be helpful.
They have no idea.

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Re: Dealing with Paycuts

Post by QContinuum » Sun May 03, 2020 6:52 pm

Newbie2TLS wrote:
QContinuum wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:But seriously, why are there so many people in this thread boo hooing. Yes, it sucks to be working more and getting paid less—we can all get behind that. But everyone is making cuts and lots of people are losing their jobs. Just go look on your LinkedIn feeds. Why do attorneys think their law firms are special? It’s just a business in the service industry like any other...
When someone you know complains that they're really hungry, do you always let them know that there are children starving around the world?
Yea, I can't understand that attitude. It's like telling a victim of emotional abuse, "hey, didja realize there are many folks who're being physically AND emotionally abused"? Or telling adult victims of physical and emotional abuse, "hey, you realize there are children being molested out there!" The tragedy of child molestation doesn't mean adult abuse victims aren't victims.
Stop the press! This is the new comment of the year. Wow. Took, like what, only 3 posts since the last comment of the year was declared just a bit further up this threat. Wow. Salary cuts akin to emotional abuse. Lol Every now and then I get smacked in the face with a reminder of how entitled some lawyers can be.
Stop the press! Looks like someone needs to retake Law School 101. Wow. No one ever said salary cuts are "akin to emotional abuse". Lol. Every now and then I get smacked in the face with a reminder of how bad some folks are at doing basic logic.

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Re: Dealing with Paycuts

Post by Newbie2TLS » Mon May 04, 2020 3:26 am

QContinuum wrote:
Newbie2TLS wrote:
QContinuum wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:But seriously, why are there so many people in this thread boo hooing. Yes, it sucks to be working more and getting paid less—we can all get behind that. But everyone is making cuts and lots of people are losing their jobs. Just go look on your LinkedIn feeds. Why do attorneys think their law firms are special? It’s just a business in the service industry like any other...
When someone you know complains that they're really hungry, do you always let them know that there are children starving around the world?
Yea, I can't understand that attitude. It’s like telling a victim of emotional abuse, "hey, didja realize there are many folks who're being physically AND emotionally abused"? Or telling adult victims of physical and emotional abuse, "hey, you realize there are children being molested out there!" The tragedy of child molestation doesn't mean adult abuse victims aren't victims.
Stop the press! This is the new comment of the year. Wow. Took, like what, only 3 posts since the last comment of the year was declared just a bit further up this threat. Wow. Salary cuts akin to emotional abuse. Lol Every now and then I get smacked in the face with a reminder of how entitled some lawyers can be.
Stop the press! Looks like someone needs to retake Law School 101. Wow. No one ever said salary cuts are "akin to emotional abuse". Lol. Every now and then I get smacked in the face with a reminder of how bad some folks are at doing basic logic.
But you did. You literally did. (*In John Oliver voice while staring blankly at the camera with a Jim Halpert stare*)

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cavalier1138

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Re: Dealing with Paycuts

Post by cavalier1138 » Mon May 04, 2020 6:03 am

Newbie2TLS wrote:But you did. You literally did. (*In John Oliver voice while staring blankly at the camera with a Jim Halpert stare*)
No, no one did that. Not even figuratively.

It's like talking to a brick wall. And just to be clear: This analogy is not "literally" comparing you to a brick wall. It's comparing the act of trying to explain things to you to the act of talking to a brick wall.

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Re: Dealing with Paycuts

Post by JusticeSquee » Mon May 04, 2020 10:39 am

cavalier1138 wrote:
Newbie2TLS wrote:But you did. You literally did. (*In John Oliver voice while staring blankly at the camera with a Jim Halpert stare*)
No, no one did that. Not even figuratively.

It's like talking to a brick wall. And just to be clear: This analogy is not "literally" comparing you to a brick wall. It's comparing the act of trying to explain things to you to the act of talking to a brick wall.
Idk man dude seems like he may literally be a brick wall.

Boomers gonna boom tho

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Re: Dealing with Paycuts

Post by sms18 » Mon May 04, 2020 11:08 am

cavalier1138 wrote:
Newbie2TLS wrote:But you did. You literally did. (*In John Oliver voice while staring blankly at the camera with a Jim Halpert stare*)
No, no one did that. Not even figuratively.

It's like talking to a brick wall. And just to be clear: This analogy is not "literally" comparing you to a brick wall. It's comparing the act of trying to explain things to you to the act of talking to a brick wall.
I don't think Newbie2TLS gets the concept of "analogy" in the first place so you are literally talking to a brick wall here (seems like Newbie2TLS is mixing up analogy with simile, and to be fair to boomers on this forum, high school was many, many years ago).

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PeanutsNJam

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Re: Dealing with Paycuts

Post by PeanutsNJam » Mon May 04, 2020 11:15 am

Using an analogy as an example of an argument is not equating things.

"Trying to understand Donald Trump's gibberish is like trying to read with a blindfold on" is not comparing Donald Trump to a book or a blindfold.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

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