Chicago firm hierarchy Forum

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous User
Posts: 428107
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Chicago firm hierarchy

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:42 pm

What's the current hierarchy for Chicago law firms (only litigation)? Which place is the best training ground for a new associate?

User avatar
trebekismyhero

Silver
Posts: 1095
Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 5:26 pm

Re: Chicago firm hierarchy

Post by trebekismyhero » Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:23 am

Anonymous User wrote:What's the current hierarchy for Chicago law firms (only litigation)? Which place is the best training ground for a new associate?
Idk if there is such a thing as best training ground since they all generally train the same. I think the answer for both are the two main boutiques, Bartlitt Beck and Goldman Ismail. But those generally don't take summers and hire clerks.

Of the big law firms, I think of it mostly in tiers.

My personal opinion for lit, tier 1 is Sidley, Winston, Kirkland, and Jenner.

Below them Mayer, McDermott, and Katten. Schiff and Riley Safer probably right below them. Although Riley Safer has some good work around white collar.

Just using Chicago based firms above. Obviously Skadden, Latham and Jones Day are up there as well.

Sackboy

Silver
Posts: 1041
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:14 am

Re: Chicago firm hierarchy

Post by Sackboy » Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:30 pm

+1 to Trebek. Solid tier list and absolutely correct in saying that training is largely similar. The only distinction for training is that it's probably on an accelerated timeline at the litigation boutiques compared to the biglaw firms. If you're a quick learner, that's great for you. If you're not, that's not so great.

I'd also add Eimer Stahl to the list of great Chicago lit boutiques that "don't take summers and hire clerks." ES is stacked with T13 grads with honors, and 1/3 of their lawyers have a DCt/COA clerkships (one even has a SCOTUS clerkship). When they do hire straight out of law school, it's near top of the class (3.85+), iirc.

User avatar
bajablast

New
Posts: 75
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:38 pm

Re: Chicago firm hierarchy

Post by bajablast » Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:11 pm

Jenner, Winston, and Mayer used to be big law litigation power houses but they have taken a step back over the years. They typically have smaller classes and pay less than Kirkland and Sidley.

User avatar
trebekismyhero

Silver
Posts: 1095
Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 5:26 pm

Re: Chicago firm hierarchy

Post by trebekismyhero » Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:03 am

bajablast wrote:Jenner, Winston, and Mayer used to be big law litigation power houses but they have taken a step back over the years. They typically have smaller classes and pay less than Kirkland and Sidley.
For corporate they are definitely behind Kirkland and Sidley, but I think Jenner and Winston are still equal when it comes to lit. They are still handling major cases with huge fortune 500 clients. Also, they are all lockstep firms. Although Jenner has been hedging on salary increases lately. Kirkland obviously beats them all with bonuses.

Want to continue reading?

Register now to search topics and post comments!

Absolutely FREE!


Anonymous User
Posts: 428107
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Chicago firm hierarchy

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:20 pm

Curious for the Chicago lit lawyers here: do you have an intuition on whether magna from UChicago and two good federal clerkships, though not with feeders, is enough to have a snowball’s chance in hell at Bartlit Beck? Would I need a vote of confidence from Mortara (almost certainly not going to happen)?

The Lsat Airbender

Gold
Posts: 1749
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:34 pm

Re: Chicago firm hierarchy

Post by The Lsat Airbender » Fri May 01, 2020 11:45 am

Anonymous User wrote:Curious for the Chicago lit lawyers here: do you have an intuition on whether magna from UChicago and two good federal clerkships, though not with feeders, is enough to have a snowball’s chance in hell at Bartlit Beck? Would I need a vote of confidence from Mortara (almost certainly not going to happen)?
UChicago doesn't do Latin honors so that would be pretty impressive :lol:

Yeah, of course top-10% at Chicago and two federal clerkships gets you to a point where they'll at least read the rest of your resume. Law Review probably also necessary. You'd still need some kind of hook, and some luck, to actually clinch it.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428107
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Chicago firm hierarchy

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:02 pm

trebekismyhero wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:23 am
Anonymous User wrote:What's the current hierarchy for Chicago law firms (only litigation)? Which place is the best training ground for a new associate?
Idk if there is such a thing as best training ground since they all generally train the same. I think the answer for both are the two main boutiques, Bartlitt Beck and Goldman Ismail. But those generally don't take summers and hire clerks.

Of the big law firms, I think of it mostly in tiers.

My personal opinion for lit, tier 1 is Sidley, Winston, Kirkland, and Jenner.

Below them Mayer, McDermott, and Katten. Schiff and Riley Safer probably right below them. Although Riley Safer has some good work around white collar.

Just using Chicago based firms above. Obviously Skadden, Latham and Jones Day are up there as well.
Curious where people would rank Latham vs. KE? Are they true peers? Is one above the other? Would someone be crazy to go to Latham over KE because of KE's "reputation"...

Edit: only care about litigation
Last edited by Anonymous User on Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

M458

Bronze
Posts: 456
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:58 pm

Re: Chicago firm hierarchy

Post by M458 » Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:02 pm
trebekismyhero wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:23 am
Anonymous User wrote:What's the current hierarchy for Chicago law firms (only litigation)? Which place is the best training ground for a new associate?
Idk if there is such a thing as best training ground since they all generally train the same. I think the answer for both are the two main boutiques, Bartlitt Beck and Goldman Ismail. But those generally don't take summers and hire clerks.

Of the big law firms, I think of it mostly in tiers.

My personal opinion for lit, tier 1 is Sidley, Winston, Kirkland, and Jenner.

Below them Mayer, McDermott, and Katten. Schiff and Riley Safer probably right below them. Although Riley Safer has some good work around white collar.

Just using Chicago based firms above. Obviously Skadden, Latham and Jones Day are up there as well.
Curious where people would rank Latham vs. KE? Are they true peers? Is one above the other? Would someone be crazy to go to Latham over KE because of KE's "reputation"...
You would not be crazy at all to go to Latham over K&E - I'd put Latham close to on par with Sidley and Kirkland in Chicago.

Want to continue reading?

Register for access!

Did I mention it was FREE ?


Zoey

New
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2015 6:16 pm

Re: Chicago firm hierarchy

Post by Zoey » Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:40 pm

Sackboy wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:30 pm
+1 to Trebek. Solid tier list and absolutely correct in saying that training is largely similar. The only distinction for training is that it's probably on an accelerated timeline at the litigation boutiques compared to the biglaw firms. If you're a quick learner, that's great for you. If you're not, that's not so great.

I'd also add Eimer Stahl to the list of great Chicago lit boutiques that "don't take summers and hire clerks." ES is stacked with T13 grads with honors, and 1/3 of their lawyers have a DCt/COA clerkships (one even has a SCOTUS clerkship). When they do hire straight out of law school, it's near top of the class (3.85+), iirc.
And one of Eimer Stahl’s partners killed it on jeopardy recently. Won 3 or 4 games, if I remember. Trebek should know.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428107
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Chicago firm hierarchy

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:08 pm

Any thoughts on the hierarchy for corporate?

Anonymous User
Posts: 428107
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Chicago firm hierarchy

Post by Anonymous User » Sat May 01, 2021 11:07 am

M458 wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:00 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:02 pm
trebekismyhero wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:23 am
Anonymous User wrote:What's the current hierarchy for Chicago law firms (only litigation)? Which place is the best training ground for a new associate?
Idk if there is such a thing as best training ground since they all generally train the same. I think the answer for both are the two main boutiques, Bartlitt Beck and Goldman Ismail. But those generally don't take summers and hire clerks.

Of the big law firms, I think of it mostly in tiers.

My personal opinion for lit, tier 1 is Sidley, Winston, Kirkland, and Jenner.

Below them Mayer, McDermott, and Katten. Schiff and Riley Safer probably right below them. Although Riley Safer has some good work around white collar.

Just using Chicago based firms above. Obviously Skadden, Latham and Jones Day are up there as well.
Curious where people would rank Latham vs. KE? Are they true peers? Is one above the other? Would someone be crazy to go to Latham over KE because of KE's "reputation"...
You would not be crazy at all to go to Latham over K&E - I'd put Latham close to on par with Sidley and Kirkland in Chicago.
Former Latham Chicago associate here. It's not crazy, but I wouldn't do it. Litigation takes a back seat to corporate at Latham. My understanding is that's not necessarily true at Kirkland (or Winston/Jenner which you could probably go to if you can get an offer at Latham).

For corporate work, there really isn't much/any difference between the work being done at Latham and Kirkland in Chicago. But, Kirkland will pay you more.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428107
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Chicago firm hierarchy

Post by Anonymous User » Tue May 04, 2021 11:55 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:08 pm
Any thoughts on the hierarchy for corporate?
My ranking of the Chicago firms would be:

TIER 1 - Kirkland and Sidley

TIER 2 - Mayer Brown, Jenner, Winston

TIER 3 - Schiff Hardin

Register now!

Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.

It's still FREE!


User avatar
trebekismyhero

Silver
Posts: 1095
Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 5:26 pm

Re: Chicago firm hierarchy

Post by trebekismyhero » Thu May 06, 2021 4:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 11:55 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:08 pm
Any thoughts on the hierarchy for corporate?
My ranking of the Chicago firms would be:

TIER 1 - Kirkland and Sidley

TIER 2 - Mayer Brown, Jenner, Winston

TIER 3 - Schiff Hardin
Personally, I think Kirkland is on a tier to itself for corporate in Chicago. Then Sidley then the next tier of Mayer and Winston. Jenner is probably below them for corporate, it is such a lit focused firm. I'd put Katten and McDermott above Jenner for corporate

Buglaw

Bronze
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2019 9:24 pm

Re: Chicago firm hierarchy

Post by Buglaw » Thu May 06, 2021 4:57 pm

trebekismyhero wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 4:25 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 11:55 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:08 pm
Any thoughts on the hierarchy for corporate?
My ranking of the Chicago firms would be:

TIER 1 - Kirkland and Sidley

TIER 2 - Mayer Brown, Jenner, Winston

TIER 3 - Schiff Hardin
Personally, I think Kirkland is on a tier to itself for corporate in Chicago. Then Sidley then the next tier of Mayer and Winston. Jenner is probably below them for corporate, it is such a lit focused firm. I'd put Katten and McDermott above Jenner for corporate
This seems right to me.

User avatar
Law Sauce

Silver
Posts: 927
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:21 pm

Re: Chicago firm hierarchy

Post by Law Sauce » Thu May 06, 2021 6:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 11:55 am

My ranking of the Chicago firms would be:

TIER 1 - Kirkland, Skadden, Latham

TIER 2 - Sidley, Mayer Brown, Katten, Winston

TIER 3 - Jenner, McDermitt

TIER ? - Schiff Hardin, others
Little fuller/better list above for transactional although a few of these firms have strong niche transactional practices in certain areas.

Sangamon

New
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:14 pm

Re: Chicago firm hierarchy

Post by Sangamon » Thu May 06, 2021 11:27 pm

Corporate
1. Kirkland
**big gap**
2. Sidley/Latham
4. Skadden/Winston
**gap**
6. McDermott/Katten/Greenberg
9. Mayer Brown/Jones Day

Litigation
1.Bartlit Beck
**big gap**
2. Kirkland/Sidley/Jenner
5. Winston/Mayer Brown/Jones Day
8. Eimer Stahl/Riley Safer

Get unlimited access to all forums and topics

Register now!

I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...


Anonymous User
Posts: 428107
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Chicago firm hierarchy

Post by Anonymous User » Fri May 07, 2021 1:27 am

Sangamon wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 11:27 pm
Corporate
1. Kirkland
**big gap**
2. Sidley/Latham
4. Skadden/Winston
**gap**
6. McDermott/Katten/Greenberg
9. Mayer Brown/Jones Day

Litigation
1.Bartlit Beck
**big gap**
2. Kirkland/Sidley/Jenner
5. Winston/Mayer Brown/Jones Day
8. Eimer Stahl/Riley Safer
I work at one of these firms and this seems right to me.

Sackboy

Silver
Posts: 1041
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:14 am

Re: Chicago firm hierarchy

Post by Sackboy » Fri May 07, 2021 1:29 am

Agree with the list that has the *gap* notation. The previous list with T1 being Kirkland/Latham/Skadden and Sidley below is just pure flame, and the poster should be ashamed for basically copy/pasting Vault onto a Chicago list.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428107
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Chicago firm hierarchy

Post by Anonymous User » Fri May 07, 2021 3:11 am

Where does barack ferrazzano fit into this scheme?

Anonymous User
Posts: 428107
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Chicago firm hierarchy

Post by Anonymous User » Fri May 07, 2021 1:38 pm

Curious about Ropes & Gray as well. I admittedly did not know they even had an office in Chi, but apparently they do, and apparently with 80+ attorneys?

Communicate now with those who not only know what a legal education is, but can offer you worthy advice and commentary as you complete the three most educational, yet challenging years of your law related post graduate life.

Register now, it's still FREE!


Buglaw

Bronze
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2019 9:24 pm

Re: Chicago firm hierarchy

Post by Buglaw » Sat May 08, 2021 11:01 am

Edit

Sackboy

Silver
Posts: 1041
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:14 am

Re: Chicago firm hierarchy

Post by Sackboy » Sun May 09, 2021 3:58 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 3:11 am
Where does barack ferrazzano fit into this scheme?
BFKN is a bit weird. They're more selective than any of the traditional biglaw firms in town (yes, Kirkland, Sidley, Latham, and Skadden included), but they also don't do top of the market work in the traditionally prestigious practices (lit + M&A). They have an excellent reputation with real estate work and might be the top shop in the city. They also do a lot of middle-market bank mergers and represent a fair number of luxury/fashion brands. I'm not sure how up to date Vault is, but they supposedly have an 1850 hours target with 100 countable pro bono hours. I know compensation compresses after 3rd year, so it makes sense. They have Waco and Minneapolis offices, technically, but the vibe I get is that they have a few partners who wanted to stay with the firm but wanted to move back to those areas. Don't think they're actually trying to compete in those markets.

Iowahawk

Bronze
Posts: 210
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:24 pm

Re: Chicago firm hierarchy

Post by Iowahawk » Sun May 09, 2021 12:05 pm

Sackboy wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 3:58 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 3:11 am
Where does barack ferrazzano fit into this scheme?
BFKN is a bit weird. They're more selective than any of the traditional biglaw firms in town (yes, Kirkland, Sidley, Latham, and Skadden included), but they also don't do top of the market work in the traditionally prestigious practices (lit + M&A). They have an excellent reputation with real estate work and might be the top shop in the city. They also do a lot of middle-market bank mergers and represent a fair number of luxury/fashion brands. I'm not sure how up to date Vault is, but they supposedly have an 1850 hours target with 100 countable pro bono hours. I know compensation compresses after 3rd year, so it makes sense. They have Waco and Minneapolis offices, technically, but the vibe I get is that they have a few partners who wanted to stay with the firm but wanted to move back to those areas. Don't think they're actually trying to compete in those markets.
This thread on BFKN is helpful: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=297338

My understanding is that it's kind of very-high-end midlaw, plus an exceptional real estate practice, and pretty attractive due to its casual dress code/culture, hours, substantive work, etc. It also has extremely low leverage. And yeah at my school it was just as selective as Kirkland.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428107
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Chicago firm hierarchy

Post by Anonymous User » Sun May 09, 2021 1:18 pm

Iowahawk wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 12:05 pm
Sackboy wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 3:58 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 3:11 am
Where does barack ferrazzano fit into this scheme?
BFKN is a bit weird. They're more selective than any of the traditional biglaw firms in town (yes, Kirkland, Sidley, Latham, and Skadden included), but they also don't do top of the market work in the traditionally prestigious practices (lit + M&A). They have an excellent reputation with real estate work and might be the top shop in the city. They also do a lot of middle-market bank mergers and represent a fair number of luxury/fashion brands. I'm not sure how up to date Vault is, but they supposedly have an 1850 hours target with 100 countable pro bono hours. I know compensation compresses after 3rd year, so it makes sense. They have Waco and Minneapolis offices, technically, but the vibe I get is that they have a few partners who wanted to stay with the firm but wanted to move back to those areas. Don't think they're actually trying to compete in those markets.
This thread on BFKN is helpful: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=297338

My understanding is that it's kind of very-high-end midlaw, plus an exceptional real estate practice, and pretty attractive due to its casual dress code/culture, hours, substantive work, etc. It also has extremely low leverage. And yeah at my school it was just as selective as Kirkland.
I interviewed there a few years ago. The firm, as mentioned above, is super selective. Outside of the employment group, I think every associate was from a t13, many with honors.

When I interviewed, a recruiter I worked with sent me the average pay after 3 years (not sure how they got that), but the compression wasn’t that bad. I think it was still within $10-15k in each class year.

I wouldn’t be able to rank it against a traditional firm because they do completely different work. It’s all very high end, but non-traditional work.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!


Post Reply Post Anonymous Reply  

Return to “Legal Employment”