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For firms that have reduced associate salary and partner distribution (Baker Mckenzie; Cadwalader; Ballard Spahr), any thoughts on how that may impact return offers for their summer associates? Is it a sign of financial distress that could impact the number of summer associates joining the firms as full-time associates in 2021?

My intuition is that, perhaps unlike 2008, the firms are coming at this with the goal of good PR first and foremost. I believe that a number of firms are cutting salaries in lieu of associate/furloughs for that reason.

Following from this, I would think, is a potential concern about no offers and how they would be perceived. So I think they’ll do their best to make offers.

Finally, models predict things being on track by the time these summers would begin as associates. In fact some predict a rapid ramp-up of demand.

So I think it probably wouldn’t be super detrimental to chances of getting offered after the summer.

objctnyrhnr wrote:

Agree with all of objctnyrhnr's intuition above, with the major caveat that all this depends on a relatively speedy recovery, as models are currently predicting. If it turns out that the lockdowns must continue until spring 2021 when a vaccine comes out, then the economy will likely do substantially worse than the models are currently predicting and in that scenario all bets are off.

Ballard already guaranteed offers to its summers, by the way.

aliciacflorrick wrote:Ballard already guaranteed offers to its summers, by the way.

Do you think the guaranteed offer trend will extend to most law firms? I know a number of firms have guaranteed offers while others have only delayed start dates/moved to remote programs, but I am curious to see if many firms will eventually adopt guaranteed offers.

I’m only a student myself. You should check the Reddit chart being updated every day about what firms are doing in the lawschool forum.

As of today, Cravath and DPW have guaranteed post-grad offers in the V10 with pay. I think firms less capable of doing that who haven’t already announced will do something like Stroock (canceling program, 15k stipend plus offer) or Hogan (reduced weeks/pay of SA plus offer). The harshest outcome in the V100 so far is Arent Fox’s outright cancellation without pay yet a guaranteed offer... and I still consider that a good outcome.

aliciacflorrick wrote:I’m only a student myself. You should check the Reddit chart being updated every day about what firms are doing in the lawschool forum.

As of today, Cravath and DPW have guaranteed post-grad offers in the V10 with pay. I think firms less capable of doing that who haven’t already announced will do something like Stroock (canceling program, 15k stipend plus offer) or Hogan (reduced weeks/pay of SA plus offer). The harshest outcome in the V100 so far is Arent Fox’s outright cancellation without pay yet a guaranteed offer... and I still consider that a good outcome.

Maybe I’m reading the chart wrong, but the chart seems to indicate that Arent Fox cancelled WITHOUT guaranteed offers.

Edit: was looking on my phone and didn’t notice they added another row to the chart. My bad.

aliciacflorrick wrote:I’m only a student myself. You should check the Reddit chart being updated every day about what firms are doing in the lawschool forum.

As of today, Cravath and DPW have guaranteed post-grad offers in the V10 with pay. I think firms less capable of doing that who haven’t already announced will do something like Stroock (canceling program, 15k stipend plus offer) or Hogan (reduced weeks/pay of SA plus offer). The harshest outcome in the V100 so far is Arent Fox’s outright cancellation without pay yet a guaranteed offer... and I still consider that a good outcome.

Agreed - thanks for the insight!!

Greenberg Traurig gave post grad offers to 2L summers firmwide

aliciacflorrick wrote:I’m only a student myself. You should check the Reddit chart being updated every day about what firms are doing in the lawschool forum.

As of today, Cravath and DPW have guaranteed post-grad offers in the V10 with pay. I think firms less capable of doing that who haven’t already announced will do something like Stroock (canceling program, 15k stipend plus offer) or Hogan (reduced weeks/pay of SA plus offer). The harshest outcome in the V100 so far is Arent Fox’s outright cancellation without pay yet a guaranteed offer... and I still consider that a good outcome.

Greenberg Traurig guaranteed post-grad offers as well, if a V60 can do it, a V10 is going to look pretty shitty. I think guaranteed post-grad offers are going to be the norm, with variations among firms guaranteeing summer pay

based on my own firm and what im hearing in the market I really wouldnt be worried too much about this. It seems like it's winding down anyways, but definitely doesn't seem like it's gonna have the long-term effects like '08 did.

My firm overreacted hardaf imo and cut the 401k match, so basically cutting comp. Yet my group
has been week over week +++ in hours/revenue p much every single week. And even the groups that have more to do with consumer goods/travel/wtv are really not suffering that much. Corporate America seems like it's p much all systems go.

Unless one of those firms in your group is heavily reliant on a client like a cruise line or casino or something like that i guess

wildcatatpenn wrote:based on my own firm and what im hearing in the market I really wouldnt be worried too much about this. It seems like it's winding down anyways, but definitely doesn't seem like it's gonna have the long-term effects like '08 did.

My firm overreacted hardaf imo and cut the 401k match, so basically cutting comp. Yet my group
has been week over week +++ in hours/revenue p much every single week. And even the groups that have more to do with consumer goods/travel/wtv are really not suffering that much. Corporate America seems like it's p much all systems go.

Unless one of those firms in your group is heavily reliant on a client like a cruise line or casino or something like that i guess

Or a hotel chain or an airline or a carmaker or a sports league or an entertainment venue or a TV network (advertising $ down) or a theater chain or an O&G driller or a retailer, etc etc. unless your client is one of these or an adjacent industry, then it’s like p much all systems go.

Lol come on man

wwwcol wrote:

wildcatatpenn wrote:based on my own firm and what im hearing in the market I really wouldnt be worried too much about this. It seems like it's winding down anyways, but definitely doesn't seem like it's gonna have the long-term effects like '08 did.

My firm overreacted hardaf imo and cut the 401k match, so basically cutting comp. Yet my group
has been week over week +++ in hours/revenue p much every single week. And even the groups that have more to do with consumer goods/travel/wtv are really not suffering that much. Corporate America seems like it's p much all systems go.

Unless one of those firms in your group is heavily reliant on a client like a cruise line or casino or something like that i guess

Or a hotel chain or an airline or a carmaker or a sports league or an entertainment venue or a TV network (advertising $ down) or a theater chain or an O&G driller or a retailer, etc etc. unless your client is one of these or an adjacent industry, then it’s like p much all systems go.

Lol come on man

na that's taking it too far imo. My firm is big in energy. I won't even pretend to know wtf the energy ppl do but any slowdown they've had has been buoyed by other practice areas. sports league, sure, but there's what like 7 of them that have positive income? idt there's that many market segments that have been put on the precipice of disaster.

2 factors main factors i see counteracting a short duration slowdown:
1) legal spending not necessarily tied to revenue...my #1 client is definitely not, their legal services need to churn regardless... Venues like u mentioned i bet are hiring a bunch of attys right now to get out of or renegotiate contracts and stuff.
2) whole point of a big firm is to provide the client diversity that one market segment getting fuked can be weathered..

Just my perspective.

Anonymous User wrote:

aliciacflorrick wrote:I’m only a student myself. You should check the Reddit chart being updated every day about what firms are doing in the lawschool forum.

As of today, Cravath and DPW have guaranteed post-grad offers in the V10 with pay. I think firms less capable of doing that who haven’t already announced will do something like Stroock (canceling program, 15k stipend plus offer) or Hogan (reduced weeks/pay of SA plus offer). The harshest outcome in the V100 so far is Arent Fox’s outright cancellation without pay yet a guaranteed offer... and I still consider that a good outcome.

Greenberg Traurig guaranteed post-grad offers as well, if a V60 can do it, a V10 is going to look pretty shitty. I think guaranteed post-grad offers are going to be the norm, with variations among firms guaranteeing summer pay

I don't say this with ill will but a "guaranteed" offer means nothing. If the situation further devolves, a lot of these "guaranteed" offers are going to disappear.