Incoming Associates Getting Deferred Forum

[cavalier1138]

FYI law firms are doing PPP to get $20,000 per employee. Link here https://bit.ly/34udtHa

Threw up in my mouth a little. Rather more of this money go to small mom and pop shops and restaurants that actually can't do any work remotely and are on the verge of being wiped out.

Consider the source before getting too upset about this.

[Ultramar vistas]

FWIW, there's a reddit thread tracking firms' communications with their incoming class. I do not have first-hand knowledge of any of the firms listed, but none of the firms that I know have not contacted incoming associates are listed--so nothing I can verify as false is listed. Also, based on a previous post in this thread, LW has not yet distributed its stipends, but has confirmed they would be distributed (the thread says they have already been distributed.

The list:


Sullivan & Cromwell (V4): Email on 4/3 stated “We are closely monitoring the situation and will come back to you once we have clarity about the timing of the [bar] exam and the related start date delay.” 4/5

Latham (V5): Distributed summer stipends on time, no information about whether they’re pushing the start date. 4/5

Weil, Gotshal & Manges (V11): Email 3/25 confirmed first years still have jobs. Said information to be forthcoming on an office-specific basis regarding bar exams and expenses, moving, and other general administrative matters. 4/6

Jones Day (V16): No current plans to change the fall start date for new lawyers. 4/5

Ropes & Gray (V20): Ambiguous email sent on 4/3 seems to confirm jobs. Relevant portion reads: "Unfortunately, the circumstances under which we are operating will likely affect our summer program and could even stretch to affect our fall associate onboarding. Although I am not yet in a position to give you definitive word, we understand how urgent this is for you. We are closely monitoring and in touch with our law school career services colleagues and watching developments with respect to the bar exams. We are also considering contingency plans and ways in which we could adjust our normal procedures to accommodate our future colleagues." 4/5

Morrison & Foerster (V23): Bar Stipend paid on time in late March. Email from recruiter saying the offices have been closed and everyone is working remotely but they are still available if we have any questions. 4/5

Milbank (V25): Email on 4/3. No change to incoming associate job status. Stated that a decision about delaying start date has not yet been made. 4/5

O'Melveny & Myers (V26): Confirmed incoming associates still have jobs but no info on start date. Said that they weren’t selecting a start date yet because of uncertainty about the bar exam in CA or return to in office work. (Info for Orange County & LA offices). 4/11

Orrick (V34): "To ensure the dangers associated with COVID-19 have passed and to work around delayed bar exams, the firm will postpone the start of its 2020 associate class to January 2021." Announced 10% salary cut for associates for remainder of 2020, but not sure how this impacts the incoming class salary. Note: info for this came from an ATL article. 4/8

Mayer Brown (V35): Asked for information to pay summer stipends. No word yet on anything else. 4/6

Goodwin Procter (V37): Sent ambiguous email. Confirmed first years still have jobs but otherwise no info. 4/5

Winston & Strawn (V43): Partner distributions cut 50%; but associate salaries and staff salaries not cut. No layoffs. Anticipated same start date for the fall but may push to later depending on the situation. Welcomed the incoming 3L's into the Winston Family (confirmed jobs) 4/7

Dechert (V50): Positive email sent out on April 9 stated "we continue to be excited about your arrival" and "you are part of our community." Summer stipend expected to be paid on time. No set start date. Firm is monitoring the bar exam situation to coordinate onboarding. 4/10

McDermott Will & Emery (V57): Summer stipend is being distributed at normally scheduled date and bar/relocation expenses are still being reimbursed. No comment yet on start date. The firm stated they will “monitor the situation” and let incoming associates know of any planned changes. 4/8

Reed Smith (V61): Mid-March phone call for Midwest office to first years assured them that the firm had no plans to alter the incoming associate start date. 4/7

Fish & Richardson (V73): Seemed to confirm jobs, but little else. Sent vague email that says "We continue to be excited about having you join us this fall and will be in touch later this spring with additional details." In the same e-mail, the firm also offered access to the Resource Guidance Program to the incoming associates 4/6

Hughes, Hubbard, & Reed (V86): Intends for first years to still start on normal start date (late October) but said they would have to reconsider if the bar exam is pushed back to “October or later” 4/5

Kramer Levin (V89): Firm indicated that it is waiting for guidance regarding the bar exam and not sure if COVID will push the start date back

https://www.reddit.com/r/LawSchool/comm ... rst_years/

You should be glad if your future employer has had the good sense not to make any promises.

Let’s be honest - the status of the summer programs, job offers, the future economy, etc. is astonishingly uncertain. Literally no one knows what the outcome is likely to be - so you’re begging for an update that you know deep down is going to be too early and subject to a total 180 degrees of change.

We’ve already seen one law firm have to walk back its initial sunshine and rainbows email, and no firm wants to have to do that. For the V10 firms that you want to hear from, the silence tells you everything you need to know; i.e. things are okay right now pending the economy recovering on a reasonable timescale, but none of them feels confident enough in that recovery to commit to anything.

Sad to be the bearer of bad news, but if the equity bubble does actually pop, even Kirkland and Weil are going to be having a miserable time, and the V10 generally will be only moderately insulated from the market taking a plunge that reflects reality.

So buckle up, accept that the answers you want cannot be given right now, and be glad to know that I know many attorneys who survived Layoffs, deferrals and cancelled offers in 2008/2009 and are now thriving partners at some of the best law firms in the world.

[Dcc617]

There’s so much boomerism in this thread it’s wild.

[basketofbread]

FWIW, there's a reddit thread tracking firms' communications with their incoming class. I do not have first-hand knowledge of any of the firms listed, but none of the firms that I know have not contacted incoming associates are listed--so nothing I can verify as false is listed. Also, based on a previous post in this thread, LW has not yet distributed its stipends, but has confirmed they would be distributed (the thread says they have already been distributed.

The list:


Sullivan & Cromwell (V4): Email on 4/3 stated “We are closely monitoring the situation and will come back to you once we have clarity about the timing of the [bar] exam and the related start date delay.” 4/5

Latham (V5): Distributed summer stipends on time, no information about whether they’re pushing the start date. 4/5

Weil, Gotshal & Manges (V11): Email 3/25 confirmed first years still have jobs. Said information to be forthcoming on an office-specific basis regarding bar exams and expenses, moving, and other general administrative matters. 4/6

Jones Day (V16): No current plans to change the fall start date for new lawyers. 4/5

Ropes & Gray (V20): Ambiguous email sent on 4/3 seems to confirm jobs. Relevant portion reads: "Unfortunately, the circumstances under which we are operating will likely affect our summer program and could even stretch to affect our fall associate onboarding. Although I am not yet in a position to give you definitive word, we understand how urgent this is for you. We are closely monitoring and in touch with our law school career services colleagues and watching developments with respect to the bar exams. We are also considering contingency plans and ways in which we could adjust our normal procedures to accommodate our future colleagues." 4/5

Morrison & Foerster (V23): Bar Stipend paid on time in late March. Email from recruiter saying the offices have been closed and everyone is working remotely but they are still available if we have any questions. 4/5

Milbank (V25): Email on 4/3. No change to incoming associate job status. Stated that a decision about delaying start date has not yet been made. 4/5

O'Melveny & Myers (V26): Confirmed incoming associates still have jobs but no info on start date. Said that they weren’t selecting a start date yet because of uncertainty about the bar exam in CA or return to in office work. (Info for Orange County & LA offices). 4/11

Orrick (V34): "To ensure the dangers associated with COVID-19 have passed and to work around delayed bar exams, the firm will postpone the start of its 2020 associate class to January 2021." Announced 10% salary cut for associates for remainder of 2020, but not sure how this impacts the incoming class salary. Note: info for this came from an ATL article. 4/8

Mayer Brown (V35): Asked for information to pay summer stipends. No word yet on anything else. 4/6

Goodwin Procter (V37): Sent ambiguous email. Confirmed first years still have jobs but otherwise no info. 4/5

Winston & Strawn (V43): Partner distributions cut 50%; but associate salaries and staff salaries not cut. No layoffs. Anticipated same start date for the fall but may push to later depending on the situation. Welcomed the incoming 3L's into the Winston Family (confirmed jobs) 4/7

Dechert (V50): Positive email sent out on April 9 stated "we continue to be excited about your arrival" and "you are part of our community." Summer stipend expected to be paid on time. No set start date. Firm is monitoring the bar exam situation to coordinate onboarding. 4/10

McDermott Will & Emery (V57): Summer stipend is being distributed at normally scheduled date and bar/relocation expenses are still being reimbursed. No comment yet on start date. The firm stated they will “monitor the situation” and let incoming associates know of any planned changes. 4/8

Reed Smith (V61): Mid-March phone call for Midwest office to first years assured them that the firm had no plans to alter the incoming associate start date. 4/7

Fish & Richardson (V73): Seemed to confirm jobs, but little else. Sent vague email that says "We continue to be excited about having you join us this fall and will be in touch later this spring with additional details." In the same e-mail, the firm also offered access to the Resource Guidance Program to the incoming associates 4/6

Hughes, Hubbard, & Reed (V86): Intends for first years to still start on normal start date (late October) but said they would have to reconsider if the bar exam is pushed back to “October or later” 4/5

Kramer Levin (V89): Firm indicated that it is waiting for guidance regarding the bar exam and not sure if COVID will push the start date back

https://www.reddit.com/r/LawSchool/comm ... rst_years/

You should be glad if your future employer has had the good sense not to make any promises.

Let’s be honest - the status of the summer programs, job offers, the future economy, etc. is astonishingly uncertain. Literally no one knows what the outcome is likely to be - so you’re begging for an update that you know deep down is going to be too early and subject to a total 180 degrees of change.

We’ve already seen one law firm have to walk back its initial sunshine and rainbows email, and no firm wants to have to do that. For the V10 firms that you want to hear from, the silence tells you everything you need to know; i.e. things are okay right now pending the economy recovering on a reasonable timescale, but none of them feels confident enough in that recovery to commit to anything.

Sad to be the bearer of bad news, but if the equity bubble does actually pop, even Kirkland and Weil are going to be having a miserable time, and the V10 generally will be only moderately insulated from the market taking a plunge that reflects reality.

So buckle up, accept that the answers you want cannot be given right now, and be glad to know that I know many attorneys who survived Layoffs, deferrals and cancelled offers in 2008/2009 and are now thriving partners at some of the best law firms in the world.

You're absolutely right but i am scared and will continue to put hope in these worthless communications from my firm

[objctnyrhnr]

There’s so much boomerism in this thread it’s wild.

If “you have a 200,000 plus/year job waiting for you in the very near future. In the broad scheme of things, a little uncertainty about specifically what the start date will be sucks, but it isn’t THAT bad compared to what many other people are going through” is a crazy boomeresque take...then maybe I haven’t been giving the “boomer perspective” a fair shake to date.

[QContinuum]

Let’s be honest - the status of the summer programs, job offers, the future economy, etc. is astonishingly uncertain. Literally no one knows what the outcome is likely to be - so you’re begging for an update that you know deep down is going to be too early and subject to a total 180 degrees of change.

We’ve already seen one law firm have to walk back its initial sunshine and rainbows email, and no firm wants to have to do that.

The above is entirely correct. We all want certainty. Heck, even the law firms/partners making these decisions want certainty!

Thing is, it's not really in any of our hands. If a law firm were to send out an email right now promising that their summer program will begin as originally scheduled, and will include a full menu of traditional summer outings, that'd be meaningless. The firm simply isn't in a position to guarantee that, at this point. The firm can't know whether lockdown orders will be lifted - that's up to the Governors. And even the Governors don't know whether the lockdown orders will be lifted in May or June - that's up to how the situation with the pandemic looks.

There's also the economic factor, of course. A firm could send out an email now promising summers full pay for the entire summer regardless of what happens with lockdown orders. But even that would be subject to change. If the lockdowns continue and it becomes apparent we've shot past recession and straight into depression, and the firm realizes it needs to start conducting layoffs and/or cutting associate pay, it may need to renege on the promise to pay summers for the full term. Imagine the optics and impact on associate morale if full-time associates were being let go or having their salaries slashed so the firm could give the money to the summers.

Likewise if a firm were to send out an email right now promising that all incoming associates will start on Sept. 1, as scheduled. That'd be meaningless. If the bar then gets scheduled for mid-September, that start date will inevitably be moved. If the economy stays moribund, the start date may very well be pushed back for economic reasons.

[Anonymous User]

Cahill already sent an email to summers saying there won't be a summer program, but they've all got full time offers and will be paid for the full 10 weeks.

[Ultramar vistas]

Cahill already sent an email to summers saying there won't be a summer program, but they've all got full time offers and will be paid for the full 10 weeks.

Yep and I honestly find that to be a mistake. It’s April, and plenty of very bright, very well informed folks in finance think that by June the Dow could be at new lows. Agree with Qcontinuum - 35,000 dollars per summer on a 50 person summer class is 1,750,0000. That’s 9 first years yearly salary, and payroll decisions like that are going to end up being critical, as they already have for many firms trying to make ends meet by salary reductions.

If I’m SullCrom, I’m keeping my mouth shut right now until the latest possible moment. I know that sucks for incoming summers but there’s little PR hit for not giving reassurance, and if you’re going to take the PR hit for cutting summer programs, you may as well wait until it’s inevitable and everyone has done it.

[objctnyrhnr]

I’m surprised that more firms haven’t gone to some sort of stipend (half salary maybe) plus 100% offers plus like bonus on first day of work or something. I mean would be far from ideal but would save some money, save having to deal with like remote summer when they’re getting offers anyway (and all those hours probably get written off anyway).

Thoughts?

[trusk13]

Cahill already sent an email to summers saying there won't be a summer program, but they've all got full time offers and will be paid for the full 10 weeks.

Yep and I honestly find that to be a mistake. It’s April, and plenty of very bright, very well informed folks in finance think that by June the Dow could be at new lows. Agree with Qcontinuum - 35,000 dollars per summer on a 50 person summer class is 1,750,0000. That’s 9 first years yearly salary, and payroll decisions like that are going to end up being critical, as they already have for many firms trying to make ends meet by salary reductions.

If I’m SullCrom, I’m keeping my mouth shut right now until the latest possible moment. I know that sucks for incoming summers but there’s little PR hit for not giving reassurance, and if you’re going to take the PR hit for cutting summer programs, you may as well wait until it’s inevitable and everyone has done it.

This is a great point; why pay SA if you won’t end up hiring them and you have no idea what the future looks like? Other than reputational fear. Whole lotta firms are playing chicken right now waiting for someone else to make the first cut. Also, 1.75mm is not 9 1st year salaries. If you consider the all-in costs of employing an associate it is probably closer to 6 at best.

[QContinuum]

I’m surprised that more firms haven’t gone to some sort of stipend (half salary maybe) plus 100% offers plus like bonus on first day of work or something. I mean would be far from ideal but would save some money, save having to deal with like remote summer when they’re getting offers anyway (and all those hours probably get written off anyway).

Thoughts?

Agree. I honestly think once the first firm announces something along these lines, you'd see firms stampeding to follow suit. And then the firms that previously announced full pay for the entire summer will start trying to backtrack (and end up raked over the coals at ATL as a result).

I really don't think remote summer makes sense. You need that in-person time to get off the ground. It's why even though the USPTO has moved to having most of the patent examining corps work from home to cut down on office expenses (and also presumably increase their recruiting pool), newbies are still required to work in the office for the first however long (I forget exactly but I think it's 1-2 years or so).

(Yes, it's theoretically possible to replicate most things using tech, but it's not the same as a lot of the spontaneous interactions an in-person summer allows.)

[aliciacflorrick]

I don’t really see how a firm would be able to discern SAs from one another when they’re working remotely if any of them plan to not guarantee offers. It’s a bit like all the schools having to go pass/fail given all the variables people have with WFH... only that still doesn’t even the playing field when you can’t socialize/fit in another way.

I agree that decent stipend plus offer (like Stroock with 15k) is the safest decision for the firms. You can always defer some or most of them later on into 2022 instead of fall 2021. Just cut the size of all the future summer programs to avoid no-offer stigma.

That said, DPW is already giving full pay and offers to a 100+ summer class. That’s a bigger deal than Cahill/Ballard/Orrick/A&P doing the same. They didn’t decide on that easily, so evidently it’s not unsustainable for some of the healthier firms to do this. They didn’t act unadvised or blindly. I’m sure more will follow.

[jackshunger]

Cahill already sent an email to summers saying there won't be a summer program, but they've all got full time offers and will be paid for the full 10 weeks.

Yep and I honestly find that to be a mistake. It’s April, and plenty of very bright, very well informed folks in finance think that by June the Dow could be at new lows. Agree with Qcontinuum - 35,000 dollars per summer on a 50 person summer class is 1,750,0000. That’s 9 first years yearly salary, and payroll decisions like that are going to end up being critical, as they already have for many firms trying to make ends meet by salary reductions.

If I’m SullCrom, I’m keeping my mouth shut right now until the latest possible moment. I know that sucks for incoming summers but there’s little PR hit for not giving reassurance, and if you’re going to take the PR hit for cutting summer programs, you may as well wait until it’s inevitable and everyone has done it.

DPW's decision to guarantee full pay and offers should ensure that the V5s follow likewise. Latham already looks like they will follow DPW as well, and I doubt S&C wants to look worse than them.

[aliciacflorrick]

Cahill already sent an email to summers saying there won't be a summer program, but they've all got full time offers and will be paid for the full 10 weeks.

Yep and I honestly find that to be a mistake. It’s April, and plenty of very bright, very well informed folks in finance think that by June the Dow could be at new lows. Agree with Qcontinuum - 35,000 dollars per summer on a 50 person summer class is 1,750,0000. That’s 9 first years yearly salary, and payroll decisions like that are going to end up being critical, as they already have for many firms trying to make ends meet by salary reductions.

If I’m SullCrom, I’m keeping my mouth shut right now until the latest possible moment. I know that sucks for incoming summers but there’s little PR hit for not giving reassurance, and if you’re going to take the PR hit for cutting summer programs, you may as well wait until it’s inevitable and everyone has done it.

DPW's decision to guarantee full pay and offers should ensure that the V5s follow likewise. Latham already looks like they will follow DPW as well, and I doubt S&C wants to look worse than them.

I expect STB, Gibson and PW to go forward with that as well in V10, but I could see Skadden, K&E and Latham being less willing. Quinn or Deb at some point.

[jackshunger]

Cahill already sent an email to summers saying there won't be a summer program, but they've all got full time offers and will be paid for the full 10 weeks.

Yep and I honestly find that to be a mistake. It’s April, and plenty of very bright, very well informed folks in finance think that by June the Dow could be at new lows. Agree with Qcontinuum - 35,000 dollars per summer on a 50 person summer class is 1,750,0000. That’s 9 first years yearly salary, and payroll decisions like that are going to end up being critical, as they already have for many firms trying to make ends meet by salary reductions.

If I’m SullCrom, I’m keeping my mouth shut right now until the latest possible moment. I know that sucks for incoming summers but there’s little PR hit for not giving reassurance, and if you’re going to take the PR hit for cutting summer programs, you may as well wait until it’s inevitable and everyone has done it.

DPW's decision to guarantee full pay and offers should ensure that the V5s follow likewise. Latham already looks like they will follow DPW as well, and I doubt S&C wants to look worse than them.

I expect STB, Gibson and PW to go forward with that as well in V10, but I could see Skadden, K&E and Latham being less willing. Quinn or Deb at some point.

Latham has already promised full-pay and some form of a program and Skadden has promised some form of a program as well. I think you are being way too pessimistic.

[Anonymous User]

Cahill already sent an email to summers saying there won't be a summer program, but they've all got full time offers and will be paid for the full 10 weeks.

Yep and I honestly find that to be a mistake. It’s April, and plenty of very bright, very well informed folks in finance think that by June the Dow could be at new lows. Agree with Qcontinuum - 35,000 dollars per summer on a 50 person summer class is 1,750,0000. That’s 9 first years yearly salary, and payroll decisions like that are going to end up being critical, as they already have for many firms trying to make ends meet by salary reductions.

If I’m SullCrom, I’m keeping my mouth shut right now until the latest possible moment. I know that sucks for incoming summers but there’s little PR hit for not giving reassurance, and if you’re going to take the PR hit for cutting summer programs, you may as well wait until it’s inevitable and everyone has done it.

DPW's decision to guarantee full pay and offers should ensure that the V5s follow likewise. Latham already looks like they will follow DPW as well, and I doubt S&C wants to look worse than them.

I expect STB, Gibson and PW to go forward with that as well in V10, but I could see Skadden, K&E and Latham being less willing. Quinn or Deb at some point.

Latham has already promised full-pay and some form of a program and Skadden has promised some form of a program as well. I think you are being way too pessimistic.

Even Jones Day has already promised a full program, although they've admitted that it'll start remotely.

[aliciacflorrick]

Cahill already sent an email to summers saying there won't be a summer program, but they've all got full time offers and will be paid for the full 10 weeks.

Yep and I honestly find that to be a mistake. It’s April, and plenty of very bright, very well informed folks in finance think that by June the Dow could be at new lows. Agree with Qcontinuum - 35,000 dollars per summer on a 50 person summer class is 1,750,0000. That’s 9 first years yearly salary, and payroll decisions like that are going to end up being critical, as they already have for many firms trying to make ends meet by salary reductions.

If I’m SullCrom, I’m keeping my mouth shut right now until the latest possible moment. I know that sucks for incoming summers but there’s little PR hit for not giving reassurance, and if you’re going to take the PR hit for cutting summer programs, you may as well wait until it’s inevitable and everyone has done it.

DPW's decision to guarantee full pay and offers should ensure that the V5s follow likewise. Latham already looks like they will follow DPW as well, and I doubt S&C wants to look worse than them.

I expect STB, Gibson and PW to go forward with that as well in V10, but I could see Skadden, K&E and Latham being less willing. Quinn or Deb at some point.

Latham has already promised full-pay and some form of a program and Skadden has promised some form of a program as well. I think you are being way too pessimistic.

Even Jones Day has already promised a full program, although they've admitted that it'll start remotely.

My point was to full pay and offer, not just full pay. DPW announced full pay and offer before Latham announced it was guaranteeing just full pay, per that Reddit sheet. I found that odd when a peer already set the scale more competitively in the V10.

[Yugihoe]

I'll make a bull case.

Markets are not only desperate to bounce back, but they’re (likely rightly) assured they’ll get substantial help from a (unified!) federal government, Fed, and legal system which will allow them to lay off substantial (blue-collar) workers before any corporate profits are touched.

The industries now largely affected are old-line industries (energy, retail) dependent on both hard assets and workers/customers operating in the physical world, and asset prices on these will bounce back (they already are! See huge Wednesday and Thursday New York REIT gains, global oil deal reached this weekend). US biotech VC funding is currently unaffected this quarter (see PitchBook). Finance, tech and healthcare firms enjoying nice bump in revenues from increased trading and tech usage (see Zoom) and vaccine research (see Gilead). Asian markets (especially high-tech ones and VC-driven sectors) are, for the most part, back in business. International corporate funding issues for US dollar now a non-issue due to unprecedentedly quick and expansive Fed intervention (see current cross-currency swap rates). US PE firms are now scarmbling to take advantage of low valuations (see new Airbnb debt deal).

Trump will take good care of finance, PE, and financial markets, who, per usual, will be the real winners. White-collar workers (including BigLaw) will be fine. The real sufferers of this pandemic, also per usual, will be the poor old, poor immuno-compromised, and laid-off workers, particularly in above old-line industries.

Suddenness (and novelty) of corona, quarantine, news cycle and politico ulterior motivations to force everyone inside are (somewhat) masking both severity and length of crisis among general public, and certainly masking such severity as it affects the "financial market" economy.

TL;DR: People panic too much and don’t question authority/agendas enough, especially legal people. People are shitty risk assessors, especially legal people. And would much rather (irrationally) minimize risk than (rationally) maximize gain. I can't wait to disrupt this market.

Cool how are you going to disrupt this market? And did this have to be anon?

[Ultramar vistas]

I'll make a bull case.

Markets are not only desperate to bounce back, but they’re (likely rightly) assured they’ll get substantial help from a (unified!) federal government, Fed, and legal system which will allow them to lay off substantial (blue-collar) workers before any corporate profits are touched.

The industries now largely affected are old-line industries (energy, retail) dependent on both hard assets and workers/customers operating in the physical world, and asset prices on these will bounce back (they already are! See huge Wednesday and Thursday New York REIT gains, global oil deal reached this weekend). US biotech VC funding is currently unaffected this quarter (see PitchBook). Finance, tech and healthcare firms enjoying nice bump in revenues from increased trading and tech usage (see Zoom) and vaccine research (see Gilead). Asian markets (especially high-tech ones and VC-driven sectors) are, for the most part, back in business. International corporate funding issues for US dollar now a non-issue due to unprecedentedly quick and expansive Fed intervention (see current cross-currency swap rates). US PE firms are now scarmbling to take advantage of low valuations (see new Airbnb debt deal).

Trump will take good care of finance, PE, and financial markets, who, per usual, will be the real winners. White-collar workers (including BigLaw) will be fine. The real sufferers of this pandemic, also per usual, will be the poor old, poor immuno-compromised, and laid-off workers, particularly in above old-line industries.

Suddenness (and novelty) of corona, quarantine, news cycle and politico ulterior motivations to force everyone inside are (somewhat) masking both severity and length of crisis among general public, and certainly masking such severity as it affects the "financial market" economy.

TL;DR: People panic too much and don’t question authority/agendas enough, especially legal people. People are shitty risk assessors, especially legal people. And would much rather (irrationally) minimize risk than (rationally) maximize gain. I can't wait to disrupt this market.

No one made a bear case, no one was asking for your reddit level financial analysis. We have wallstreetbets for that. The financial discussion is relevant solely as it relates to the degree of uncertainty that exists for law firm management committees who are trying to walk the line between well-placed reassurance, and promising things that they may not ultimately deliver.

Let’s not let this thread devolve (again) into bears vs bulls, boomers vs millennials, the cost of living in NY or whatever other pet rant you have bottled up.

[Dunnkirk85]

Cahill already sent an email to summers saying there won't be a summer program, but they've all got full time offers and will be paid for the full 10 weeks.

Yep and I honestly find that to be a mistake. It’s April, and plenty of very bright, very well informed folks in finance think that by June the Dow could be at new lows. Agree with Qcontinuum - 35,000 dollars per summer on a 50 person summer class is 1,750,0000. That’s 9 first years yearly salary, and payroll decisions like that are going to end up being critical, as they already have for many firms trying to make ends meet by salary reductions.

If I’m SullCrom, I’m keeping my mouth shut right now until the latest possible moment. I know that sucks for incoming summers but there’s little PR hit for not giving reassurance, and if you’re going to take the PR hit for cutting summer programs, you may as well wait until it’s inevitable and everyone has done it.

DPW's decision to guarantee full pay and offers should ensure that the V5s follow likewise. Latham already looks like they will follow DPW as well, and I doubt S&C wants to look worse than them.

I expect STB, Gibson and PW to go forward with that as well in V10, but I could see Skadden, K&E and Latham being less willing. Quinn or Deb at some point.

Based on what? Aren't you in LS? No offense, but how can you discern the firms like that? Way too much value being given to a firm "looking bad" iTT. It's a money decision, primarily. And guessing which specific firms are going to do without any info is useless and only makes people more anxious.

[aliciacflorrick]

Cahill already sent an email to summers saying there won't be a summer program, but they've all got full time offers and will be paid for the full 10 weeks.

Yep and I honestly find that to be a mistake. It’s April, and plenty of very bright, very well informed folks in finance think that by June the Dow could be at new lows. Agree with Qcontinuum - 35,000 dollars per summer on a 50 person summer class is 1,750,0000. That’s 9 first years yearly salary, and payroll decisions like that are going to end up being critical, as they already have for many firms trying to make ends meet by salary reductions.

If I’m SullCrom, I’m keeping my mouth shut right now until the latest possible moment. I know that sucks for incoming summers but there’s little PR hit for not giving reassurance, and if you’re going to take the PR hit for cutting summer programs, you may as well wait until it’s inevitable and everyone has done it.

DPW's decision to guarantee full pay and offers should ensure that the V5s follow likewise. Latham already looks like they will follow DPW as well, and I doubt S&C wants to look worse than them.

I expect STB, Gibson and PW to go forward with that as well in V10, but I could see Skadden, K&E and Latham being less willing. Quinn or Deb at some point.

Based on what? Aren't you in LS? No offense, but how can you discern the firms like that? Way too much value being given to a firm "looking bad" iTT. It's a money decision, primarily. And guessing which specific firms are going to do without any info is useless and only makes people more anxious.

Yes, I’m a student. I don’t think there are any experts on this site even post-JD. Everyone’s experience is probably limited to their own firm and unreliable projections. I’m just looking at PPP/RPP/profit percentage, how firms are reacting to other firms’ emails to students, which firms are mainly doing corporate domestic work, and which are spread among too many offices. Law.com and some other sites are hosting a lot of content on these “guesses.” I don’t think I have to cite everything in a forum and I wasn’t trying to make you anxious.

All I’m saying is a place like DPW isn’t going to make such a bold decision re summers and not have already thought about what everyone posted on here.

Looking bad isn’t a primary factor, but it’s still important with firms that can’t afford to take the hit or want to appear stronger than everyone else. Look at Cad and the lack of T14 SAs. I just go to a T30 and people avoid them here even. Then compare it to all the “we didn’t defer or lay off anyone” speeches students cling onto at screeners or CBs more than ten years later for firms that weathered it better.

[Anonymous User]

I received an email by Skadden NYC late March. It basically said that we are implementing measure to deal with the situation, and they are committed to support incoming first year during the challenging time. No words on confirming start date or deferral plan.

[QContinuum]

Not surprised by JD's move. They apparently care a lot about looking good to 1Ls and summers. Recall that during the move to $190k, JD actually raised summers before they raised any of their full-time associates - so, for a short while, their summers were actually getting a higher salary than their first-years.

As for the other "top firms", whether that's defined as the V10 or V20 or whatever, my gut instinct, based on zero inside info, is that none of the "top firms" are currently intending to stiff the incoming summers. As another poster - Ultramar vistas, IIRC - explained earlier ITT, any lack of announcements is more about erring on the side of preserving flexibility than anything, given that we're in such completely uncharted waters. Even if this was a "normal" crash, like 2008, I feel like firms would feel more certainty than they do now, where it's a pandemic-driven crash.

[LHand1993]

While cancelling SA classes and/or offers made or not made to summer classes is somewhat indicative of a firm’s finances, SA classes are a much different situation that incoming associate start dates.

There’s also a separate thread concerned with SAs. Let’s try and keep this focused on incoming associates.

[o0o0o0o]

Orrick has not told incoming associates anything about additional stipends.

Edit: incoming* associates

Anon, have they told you anything/was there any communication, or did you just find out about deferral on ATL?