Incoming Associates Getting Deferred Forum

[Foodz]

I sincerely found STB repulsive after their latest announcement

What did they say other than deferring?

I think they said associates could not start unless they had sat for the bar exam, but given the uncertainty around that...

[bbsexclusively]

I sincerely found STB repulsive after their latest announcement

What did they say other than deferring?

I think they said associates could not start unless they had sat for the bar exam, but given the uncertainty around that...

That's just unreasonable under the circumstances.

[JusticeSquee]

I sincerely found STB repulsive after their latest announcement

What did they say other than deferring?

I think they said associates could not start unless they had sat for the bar exam, but given the uncertainty around that...

That's just unreasonable under the circumstances.

Yeah WTF? This is an obvious excuse to defer associates. No real reason to require associates "sit for the bar."

[addie1412]

I sincerely found STB repulsive after their latest announcement

What did they say other than deferring?

I think they said associates could not start unless they had sat for the bar exam, but given the uncertainty around that...

That's just unreasonable under the circumstances.

Yeah WTF? This is an obvious excuse to defer associates. No real reason to require associates "sit for the bar."

I'm guessing it's so that people don't start in January and then immediately have to take time off to study for February

[bigadi99]

Incoming New York Associates Support Diploma Privilege (Letter to NY Board of Examiners)

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIp ... A/viewform

[Anonymous User]

Any updates from other judicial clerks re start dates? My firm has been very non-committal and ambiguous about a start date since, even though pre-COVID I had a definitive start date.

[Anonymous User]

Any updates from other judicial clerks re start dates? My firm has been very non-committal and ambiguous about a start date since, even though pre-COVID I had a definitive start date.

Arnold & Porter, Baker Mckenzie, and Baker Botts have all deferred incoming clerks until January.

[woopig2017]

Any updates from other judicial clerks re start dates? My firm has been very non-committal and ambiguous about a start date since, even though pre-COVID I had a definitive start date.

Know for a fact that my firm in V50 has already told clerks they are starting on time. Seems to be a really varied response.

[Anonymous User]

Any updates from other judicial clerks re start dates? My firm has been very non-committal and ambiguous about a start date since, even though pre-COVID I had a definitive start date.

My firm, which publicly deferred first-years to January, is allowing clerks to start in the fall if we want, at least in my clerk-heavy practice group. Good luck to you...

[Anonymous User]

Please list the names of the firms allowing clerks to join. Its pretty useless if you do not share the name of the firm. Shout it out anywhere, but please mention the name.

[cheaptilts]

Please list the names of the firms allowing clerks to join. Its pretty useless if you do not share the name of the firm. Shout it out anywhere, but please mention the name.

Why is it helpful to name the firm?

[Anonymous User]

Any updates from other judicial clerks re start dates? My firm has been very non-committal and ambiguous about a start date since, even though pre-COVID I had a definitive start date.

My firm, which publicly deferred first-years to January, is allowing clerks to start in the fall if we want, at least in my clerk-heavy practice group. Good luck to you...

V50 incoming clerk and have not heard from my firm. Did your firm reach out to you or was this in response to your inquiry regarding start dates? Thanks

[Anonymous User]

Please list the names of the firms allowing clerks to join. Its pretty useless if you do not share the name of the firm. Shout it out anywhere, but please mention the name.

Why is it helpful to name the firm?

For the same reasons it's helpful to name & shame Arnold & Porter, Baker McKenzie, & Baker Botts for not allowing clerks to start, when many of their peers are giving clerks normal start dates.

Firms say they "value law clerks" but if, say, WilmerHale is giving firms normal start dates when Arnold & Porter is not, then law students looking to clerk might consider that when picking between those firms.

Anecdotally, the litigation associates I know at A&P, Baker McKenzie, & Baker Botts are busy, but the firms are pushing back the clerks start dates anyway (even though the excuse of "delayed bar exam" doesn't hold water for clerks, who have usually taken the bar exam). So, rising 2Ls hoping to clerk (and even those not looking to clerk) might take note of how this is being handled.

[The Lsat Airbender]

Please list the names of the firms allowing clerks to join. Its pretty useless if you do not share the name of the firm. Shout it out anywhere, but please mention the name.

Why is it helpful to name the firm?

For the same reasons it's helpful to name & shame Arnold & Porter, Baker McKenzie, & Baker Botts for not allowing clerks to start, when many of their peers are giving clerks normal start dates.

Firms say they "value law clerks" but if, say, WilmerHale is giving firms normal start dates when Arnold & Porter is not, then law students looking to clerk might consider that when picking between those firms.

Anecdotally, the litigation associates I know at A&P, Baker McKenzie, & Baker Botts are busy, but the firms are pushing back the clerks start dates anyway (even though the excuse of "delayed bar exam" doesn't hold water for clerks, who have usually taken the bar exam). So, rising 2Ls hoping to clerk (and even those not looking to clerk) might take note of how this is being handled.

This is a bit romantic, I think. We are in the midst of a black-swan global crisis. There's too much noise in the data of whether clerks are able to start in September or November or January to make assumptions about whether executive committees really care about clerks deep down in their hearts.

[Windjammer]

Note the 7/13 updates:

https://www.reddit.com/r/LawSchool/comm ... rst_years/

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know more about this?

Munger is delaying regular incoming associates until 2021 but basically reneging on 2021 clerks' associate jobs (and offering public interest funding instead). Seems kinda dumb to piss off people who are about to go clerk and will be free agents then...unless they want fewer associates in their ranks? Is Munger having financial troubles?

https://www.reddit.com/r/LawSchool/comm ... dium=web2x

[FU2016]

Anyone know more about this?

Munger is delaying regular incoming associates until 2021 but basically reneging on 2021 clerks' associate jobs (and offering public interest funding instead). Seems kinda dumb to piss off people who are about to go clerk and will be free agents then...unless they want fewer associates in their ranks? Is Munger having financial troubles?

https://www.reddit.com/r/LawSchool/comm ... dium=web2x

Clerks who are going to clerk in 2021 would, by a Jan/Feb start date, work only between 5 and 8 months at the firm (assuming most judges onboard clerks between June and September). MTO probably does what some other firms do with those who clerk mid-career: cut all ties and require that the clerk re-interview for the position after a clerkship. I know of at least one V30 who has a heavy emphasis on clerkship hiring who follows that practice.

Doesn't necessarily seem like the best play w/r/t those summers, but tbh, I'm not sure anyone coming off of a clerkship besides these summers will throw MTO out for this. They may have pissed off some of their 26 summer associates from last year. But there are plenty of clerks who would happily jump in the snubbed associates' spots when the non-MTO-summer individuals' clerkships end. They are a very desirable post-clerkship destination.

[Anonymous User]

Kirkland just sent an email to our incoming associates informing them that they will be starting on Oct 19.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know more about this?

Munger is delaying regular incoming associates until 2021 but basically reneging on 2021 clerks' associate jobs (and offering public interest funding instead). Seems kinda dumb to piss off people who are about to go clerk and will be free agents then...unless they want fewer associates in their ranks? Is Munger having financial troubles?

https://www.reddit.com/r/LawSchool/comm ... dium=web2x

Clerks who are going to clerk in 2021 would, by a Jan/Feb start date, work only between 5 and 8 months at the firm (assuming most judges onboard clerks between June and September). MTO probably does what some other firms do with those who clerk mid-career: cut all ties and require that the clerk re-interview for the position after a clerkship. I know of at least one V30 who has a heavy emphasis on clerkship hiring who follows that practice.

Doesn't necessarily seem like the best play w/r/t those summers, but tbh, I'm not sure anyone coming off of a clerkship besides these summers will throw MTO out for this. They may have pissed off some of their 26 summer associates from last year. But there are plenty of clerks who would happily jump in the snubbed associates' spots when the non-MTO-summer individuals' clerkships end. They are a very desirable post-clerkship destination.

Can confirm that the bolded is the typical practice at MTO, though I have heard of exceptions (or that it is more or less of a formality for some).

[enibs]

New York cancels September bar exam: http://nycourts.gov/ctapps/

[jackshunger]

Anyone know more about this?

Munger is delaying regular incoming associates until 2021 but basically reneging on 2021 clerks' associate jobs (and offering public interest funding instead). Seems kinda dumb to piss off people who are about to go clerk and will be free agents then...unless they want fewer associates in their ranks? Is Munger having financial troubles?

https://www.reddit.com/r/LawSchool/comm ... dium=web2x

Clerks who are going to clerk in 2021 would, by a Jan/Feb start date, work only between 5 and 8 months at the firm (assuming most judges onboard clerks between June and September). MTO probably does what some other firms do with those who clerk mid-career: cut all ties and require that the clerk re-interview for the position after a clerkship. I know of at least one V30 who has a heavy emphasis on clerkship hiring who follows that practice.

Doesn't necessarily seem like the best play w/r/t those summers, but tbh, I'm not sure anyone coming off of a clerkship besides these summers will throw MTO out for this. They may have pissed off some of their 26 summer associates from last year. But there are plenty of clerks who would happily jump in the snubbed associates' spots when the non-MTO-summer individuals' clerkships end. They are a very desirable post-clerkship destination.

Can't imagine MTO would see any real impact from this, but those summers should be angry - they surely had comparable offers they could have taken.

[replevin123]

Is the moral here to always pursue alternative opportunities even with "assurances" that you will be welcomed back?

[Anonymous User]

ATL on the MTO clerking issue

https://abovethelaw.com/2020/07/incomin ... glaw-firm/

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know more about this?

Munger is delaying regular incoming associates until 2021 but basically reneging on 2021 clerks' associate jobs (and offering public interest funding instead). Seems kinda dumb to piss off people who are about to go clerk and will be free agents then...unless they want fewer associates in their ranks? Is Munger having financial troubles?

https://www.reddit.com/r/LawSchool/comm ... dium=web2x

Clerks who are going to clerk in 2021 would, by a Jan/Feb start date, work only between 5 and 8 months at the firm (assuming most judges onboard clerks between June and September). MTO probably does what some other firms do with those who clerk mid-career: cut all ties and require that the clerk re-interview for the position after a clerkship. I know of at least one V30 who has a heavy emphasis on clerkship hiring who follows that practice.

Doesn't necessarily seem like the best play w/r/t those summers, but tbh, I'm not sure anyone coming off of a clerkship besides these summers will throw MTO out for this. They may have pissed off some of their 26 summer associates from last year. But there are plenty of clerks who would happily jump in the snubbed associates' spots when the non-MTO-summer individuals' clerkships end. They are a very desirable post-clerkship destination.

Can't imagine MTO would see any real impact from this, but those summers should be angry - they surely had comparable offers they could have taken.

https://abovethelaw.com/2020/07/incomin ... glaw-firm/

Surprised it's a group of only four—a pretty negligible # in terms of costs savings.

[Spectator]

Kirkland just sent an email to our incoming associates informing them that they will be starting on Oct 19.

And the same day, moments later, the bar was cancelled. Between bar cancellations, states seeing COVID numbers spike, and widescale expectation of a second wave and subsequent shutdowns, is there a point at which firms give up on the class of 2020? When?