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Piggybacking off of a previous post. I have my full GI Bill benefits, and was wondering if it would be worthwhile to get an MBA from a top 10 program, assuming I can get in one? I am very interested in business in general and am going to big law in NYC to do lev fin. FWIW I am likely around top 15 percent at top 20 (UCLA, GULC, UT). Would there be a downside of delaying practice further? Thank you for any input.

Normally I think JD/MBAs are wastes of time, but if it's free it's probably not the worst idea ITE. I bet biglaw firms are going to defer entering classes anyway, so this could help wait out the worst of the dive.

Not a bad idea, especially since it's free. Is the firm gonna hold your job for you, though?

If not, and you're a 3L now, you'll be looking for your summer MBA job in Winter 2020/Spring 2021. That's gonna be ugly -- have friends in some of the programs you're looking at who just got FT job offers pulled.

If you are planning on doing an MBA, I would do a LevFin/RX investment banking summer associate role to see what side of the house you like best. Note LevFin is one place where I think biglaw vs. IBD has no real difference in quality of life.

This is likely doable out of UT or UCLAs business schools, not clear about Georgetowns.

I'd think if you weren't happy with the firm you are supposed to start at as well, you probably could "trade up" as well with an IBD summer. I know Latham and DPW's Lev Fin teams regularly need 3Ls.

bluedolphin wrote:If you are planning on doing an MBA, I would do a LevFin/RX investment banking summer associate role to see what side of the house you like best. Note LevFin is one place where I think biglaw vs. IBD has no real difference in quality of life.

This is likely doable out of UT or UCLAs business schools, not clear about Georgetowns.

Not to sidetrack, but do you say that on the lifestyle? For reference, I think my lifestyle as a coverage banker is significantly better than biglaw especially after a few years, and within banking financing groups in general do better from a hours and QOL perspective

Note that LevFin and RX roles have traditionally been small/nichey from a MBA recruiting perspective. The former because the pipeline is usually analysts within the bank, the latter because across the street the pipeline is just smaller than "regular IB" (that might change, obviously)

Georgetown does fine with banking recruiting

I think OP wants to know whether s/he should get an MBA to sorta wait out the crisis, not the comparative advantages/disadvantages of banking vis-a-vis BigLaw lol.

Relevant issues are (a) whether the firm is gonna hold the job open (and whether we think they'll make good on that promise); (b) what MBA recruiting will look like in Fall/Winter.

Like, the worst case scenario is OP leaves his/her law job, firm decides there's no spot for him/her to come back due to economic fallout of COVID-19, and then MBA recruiting is shit for the same reason

LBJ's Hair wrote:I think OP wants to know whether s/he should get an MBA to sorta wait out the crisis, not the comparative advantages/disadvantages of banking vis-a-vis BigLaw lol.

Relevant issues are (a) whether the firm is gonna hold the job open (and whether we think they'll make good on that promise); (b) what MBA recruiting will look like in Fall/Winter.

Like, the worst case scenario is OP leaves his/her law job, firm decides there's no spot for him/her to come back due to economic fallout of COVID-19, and then MBA recruiting is shit for the same reason

Agreed, my point was just if they do this, they should do something different for their summer just so they experience the lifestyle a bit so that when they get placed another tree that needs to be turned by Sunday night they aren't thinking about how the grass is always greener.

If they can start their job in September 2020, I'd do that. If it's a September 2021 start, I'd think about an MBA especially as I'd think there will be no-offers this summer.

bluedolphin wrote:

LBJ's Hair wrote:I think OP wants to know whether s/he should get an MBA to sorta wait out the crisis, not the comparative advantages/disadvantages of banking vis-a-vis BigLaw lol.

Relevant issues are (a) whether the firm is gonna hold the job open (and whether we think they'll make good on that promise); (b) what MBA recruiting will look like in Fall/Winter.

Like, the worst case scenario is OP leaves his/her law job, firm decides there's no spot for him/her to come back due to economic fallout of COVID-19, and then MBA recruiting is shit for the same reason

Agreed, my point was just if they do this, they should do something different for their summer just so they experience the lifestyle a bit so that when they get placed another tree that needs to be turned by Sunday night they aren't thinking about how the grass is always greener.

If they can start their job in September 2020, I'd do that. If it's a September 2021 start, I'd think about an MBA especially as I'd think there will be no-offers this summer.

Yeah makes sense; comment was less directed at you than the guy who wanted to get into the minutiae of LevFin vs RX investment banking recruiting lol

Thank for so much for the helpful feedback thus far. Sorry, I wasn't clear, but I am a 3L. B school would likely be something I did for the fall of 2021, as I would have to spend some time preparing applications and studying for the GRE, which I don't know much about yet.

Anonymous User wrote:Thank for so much for the helpful feedback thus far. Sorry, I wasn't clear, but I am a 3L. B school would likely be something I did for the fall of 2021, as I would have to spend some time preparing applications and studying for the GRE, which I don't know much about yet.

If you are going to work and thinking about going back to school for an MBA, I'd think about going fall 2022. That being said getting an MBA in your case shouldn't be based on recession and rather based on whether you want to get an MBA.

Additionally you might also benefit from the lack of mid-levels in a few years due to hiring lite the next year or two, which makes partnership chances and good in house gigs a bit more palatable.

bluedolphin wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Thank for so much for the helpful feedback thus far. Sorry, I wasn't clear, but I am a 3L. B school would likely be something I did for the fall of 2021, as I would have to spend some time preparing applications and studying for the GRE, which I don't know much about yet.

If you are going to work and thinking about going back to school for an MBA, I'd think about going fall 2022. That being said getting an MBA in your case shouldn't be based on recession and rather based on whether you want to get an MBA.

Additionally you might also benefit from the lack of mid-levels in a few years due to hiring lite the next year or two, which makes partnership chances and good in house gigs a bit more palatable.

I feel like a lot of people want an MBA for the piece of paper/resume filler only. Is an MBA actually valuable beyond networking and a resume? Does an MBA program truly impart knowledge that can't be obtained elsewhere with less time, less money and more common sense? Honest question.

Anonymous User wrote:Piggybacking off of a previous post. I have my full GI Bill benefits, and was wondering if it would be worthwhile to get an MBA from a top 10 program, assuming I can get in one? I am very interested in business in general and am going to big law in NYC to do lev fin. FWIW I am likely around top 15 percent at top 20 (UCLA, GULC, UT). Would there be a downside of delaying practice further? Thank you for any input.

Hey Im a little interested to know....how you have full GI Bill benefits if you are in law school now? I'm sincerely curious, if its personal or something I get that and respect it.
I don't see anything wrong with getting an MBA especially if your interested in business.

trusk13 wrote:

bluedolphin wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Thank for so much for the helpful feedback thus far. Sorry, I wasn't clear, but I am a 3L. B school would likely be something I did for the fall of 2021, as I would have to spend some time preparing applications and studying for the GRE, which I don't know much about yet.

If you are going to work and thinking about going back to school for an MBA, I'd think about going fall 2022. That being said getting an MBA in your case shouldn't be based on recession and rather based on whether you want to get an MBA.

Additionally you might also benefit from the lack of mid-levels in a few years due to hiring lite the next year or two, which makes partnership chances and good in house gigs a bit more palatable.

I feel like a lot of people want an MBA for the piece of paper/resume filler only. Is an MBA actually valuable beyond networking and a resume? Does an MBA program truly impart knowledge that can't be obtained elsewhere with less time, less money and more common sense? Honest question.

(a) Brand, (b) vehicle to change careers. If you just want to learn business you don't need an MBA, sure, but if you're a lawyer who wants to move into a different field, it can make a lot of sense?

Put another way: Harvard Business School isn't selling an education, and that's not what most of the students think they're buying, either.

babyxmarine wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Piggybacking off of a previous post. I have my full GI Bill benefits, and was wondering if it would be worthwhile to get an MBA from a top 10 program, assuming I can get in one? I am very interested in business in general and am going to big law in NYC to do lev fin. FWIW I am likely around top 15 percent at top 20 (UCLA, GULC, UT). Would there be a downside of delaying practice further? Thank you for any input.

Hey Im a little interested to know....how you have full GI Bill benefits if you are in law school now? I'm sincerely curious, if its personal or something I get that and respect it.
I don't see anything wrong with getting an MBA especially if your interested in business.

I am a disabled combat vet and used a different program to fund law school.

Anonymous User wrote:

babyxmarine wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Piggybacking off of a previous post. I have my full GI Bill benefits, and was wondering if it would be worthwhile to get an MBA from a top 10 program, assuming I can get in one? I am very interested in business in general and am going to big law in NYC to do lev fin. FWIW I am likely around top 15 percent at top 20 (UCLA, GULC, UT). Would there be a downside of delaying practice further? Thank you for any input.

Hey Im a little interested to know....how you have full GI Bill benefits if you are in law school now? I'm sincerely curious, if its personal or something I get that and respect it.
I don't see anything wrong with getting an MBA especially if your interested in business.

I am a disabled combat vet and used a different program to fund law school.

So voc rehab paid for it? Thats interesting. I've heard they usual don't pay for anything past a bachelors but seemingly you and a selective few have accomplished this. I have to figure this out lol

babyxmarine wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

babyxmarine wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Piggybacking off of a previous post. I have my full GI Bill benefits, and was wondering if it would be worthwhile to get an MBA from a top 10 program, assuming I can get in one? I am very interested in business in general and am going to big law in NYC to do lev fin. FWIW I am likely around top 15 percent at top 20 (UCLA, GULC, UT). Would there be a downside of delaying practice further? Thank you for any input.

Hey Im a little interested to know....how you have full GI Bill benefits if you are in law school now? I'm sincerely curious, if its personal or something I get that and respect it.
I don't see anything wrong with getting an MBA especially if your interested in business.

I am a disabled combat vet and used a different program to fund law school.

So voc rehab paid for it? Thats interesting. I've heard they usual don't pay for anything past a bachelors but seemingly you and a selective few have accomplished this. I have to figure this out lol

I will PM you if you have questions

LBJ's Hair wrote:(a) Brand, (b) vehicle to change careers. If you just want to learn business you don't need an MBA, sure, but if you're a lawyer who wants to move into a different field, it can make a lot of sense?

Put another way: Harvard Business School isn't selling an education, and that's not what most of the students think they're buying, either.

Yep. I'd add that this is why even aspiring entrepreneurs go to b-school: the network and the credibility. The education itself won't really do anything directly to help them bring their product to market. But in two years (or less!) they can go from "college grad" to "Stanford MBA", which sounds a heckuva lot better and more credible when pitching to potential investors.

In many cases, other degrees could serve a similar, or even superior, brand/credibility function (ex., a Stanford CS Master's would convey an even stronger brand/credibility than a Stanford MBA for an entrepreneur in the tech space), but 1) folks may not have the right technical background for a STEM graduate degree, 2) a "sufficiently credible" STEM graduate degree may take significantly longer than an MBA (ex., in the life sciences space, you wouldn't really get much credibility with a life sciences Master's, even one from a top school - you'd need a life sciences Ph.D. to get that STEM cred, which would take years). And finally, 3) even then, other degrees don't come with the same network top b-schools have. For an entrepreneur in the life sciences space, a HBS MBA is likely to be far more directly valuable than a Harvard Ph.D. in biology.

LBJ's Hair wrote:

trusk13 wrote:

bluedolphin wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Thank for so much for the helpful feedback thus far. Sorry, I wasn't clear, but I am a 3L. B school would likely be something I did for the fall of 2021, as I would have to spend some time preparing applications and studying for the GRE, which I don't know much about yet.

If you are going to work and thinking about going back to school for an MBA, I'd think about going fall 2022. That being said getting an MBA in your case shouldn't be based on recession and rather based on whether you want to get an MBA.

Additionally you might also benefit from the lack of mid-levels in a few years due to hiring lite the next year or two, which makes partnership chances and good in house gigs a bit more palatable.

I feel like a lot of people want an MBA for the piece of paper/resume filler only. Is an MBA actually valuable beyond networking and a resume? Does an MBA program truly impart knowledge that can't be obtained elsewhere with less time, less money and more common sense? Honest question.

(a) Brand, (b) vehicle to change careers. If you just want to learn business you don't need an MBA, sure, but if you're a lawyer who wants to move into a different field, it can make a lot of sense?

Put another way: Harvard Business School isn't selling an education, and that's not what most of the students think they're buying, either.

Thanks for this. This is basically what I was saying. An MBA is a marketing and networking tool, not an educational tool. With that in mind, isn't it a silly decision to ¨wait out a recession¨ in B school if you still want to be a practicing attorney?

babyxmarine wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

babyxmarine wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Piggybacking off of a previous post. I have my full GI Bill benefits, and was wondering if it would be worthwhile to get an MBA from a top 10 program, assuming I can get in one? I am very interested in business in general and am going to big law in NYC to do lev fin. FWIW I am likely around top 15 percent at top 20 (UCLA, GULC, UT). Would there be a downside of delaying practice further? Thank you for any input.

Hey Im a little interested to know....how you have full GI Bill benefits if you are in law school now? I'm sincerely curious, if its personal or something I get that and respect it.
I don't see anything wrong with getting an MBA especially if your interested in business.

I am a disabled combat vet and used a different program to fund law school.

So voc rehab paid for it? Thats interesting. I've heard they usual don't pay for anything past a bachelors but seemingly you and a selective few have accomplished this. I have to figure this out lol

It is possible to get 5 years worth of schooling out of the Post 9/11 GI Bill but things have to fall right. Since you only get charged for days when school is in session, winter and summer break don’t count and each year can be about 8-8.5 months depending on your school’s calendar. If it’s timed right, you run out of eligibility during the final semester but the VA will extend you to the end of the semester for tuition and BAH. Be careful if you’ve used any other GI Bill benefits though because there is a cap that it cannot be extended beyond.

Somewhat related question:

Would it make any sense for a midlevel to go back to school for an MBA to switch careers? A close friend of mine went to Wharton and he said that I may have “missed the boat” on the best jobs because a lot of the top consulting jobs really want younger people (not sure if this is true, but makes sense given all of the traveling). But, let’s say I graduate in my early/mid-30s and employers are fine with that.

I have a (good) expiring GRE score, so that’s not a concern. I just think finding letters of recommendation will be very difficult without risking my job.

Does it make sense in this economy to risk an okay job making good money? Does the analysis above change if it’s a midlevel versus a 3L?

Anonymous User wrote:Somewhat related question:

Would it make any sense for a midlevel to go back to school for an MBA to switch careers? A close friend of mine went to Wharton and he said that I may have “missed the boat” on the best jobs because a lot of the top consulting jobs really want younger people (not sure if this is true, but makes sense given all of the traveling). But, let’s say I graduate in my early/mid-30s and employers are fine with that.

I have a (good) expiring GRE score, so that’s not a concern. I just think finding letters of recommendation will be very difficult without risking my job.

Does it make sense in this economy to risk an okay job making good money? Does the analysis above change if it’s a midlevel versus a 3L?

You can get a job at MBB now w/o an MBA. getting an MBA would be waste of money and time if consulting is your goal

Anonymous User wrote:Somewhat related question:
Would it make any sense for a midlevel to go back to school for an MBA to switch careers?

What you are really "paying" for with an M7 MBA is for participating in on campus recruiting. The problem is that if you started now, recruiting would happen this coming fall. It will probably be a very rough recruiting season. People who started law school in 2009 had similar thoughts about "waiting out" the recession. They had an extra year to wait (they did OCI in 2010), but they still faced a very tough recruiting environment as firms were still backlogged from deferred associates. I suppose you could apply for next year, and by then we'd have a better idea of what the economy is doing, but it still wouldn't really be a wait out the recession strategy.

spyke123 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Somewhat related question:

Would it make any sense for a midlevel to go back to school for an MBA to switch careers? A close friend of mine went to Wharton and he said that I may have “missed the boat” on the best jobs because a lot of the top consulting jobs really want younger people (not sure if this is true, but makes sense given all of the traveling). But, let’s say I graduate in my early/mid-30s and employers are fine with that.

I have a (good) expiring GRE score, so that’s not a concern. I just think finding letters of recommendation will be very difficult without risking my job.

Does it make sense in this economy to risk an okay job making good money? Does the analysis above change if it’s a midlevel versus a 3L?

You can get a job at MBB now w/o an MBA. getting an MBA would be waste of money and time if consulting is your goal

I was using consulting as an example. I was looking into PE or VC work as well, which would be difficult with my current practice.

nealric wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Somewhat related question:
Would it make any sense for a midlevel to go back to school for an MBA to switch careers?

What you are really "paying" for with an M7 MBA is for participating in on campus recruiting. The problem is that if you started now, recruiting would happen this coming fall. It will probably be a very rough recruiting season. People who started law school in 2009 had similar thoughts about "waiting out" the recession. They had an extra year to wait (they did OCI in 2010), but they still faced a very tough recruiting environment as firms were still backlogged from deferred associates. I suppose you could apply for next year, and by then we'd have a better idea of what the economy is doing, but it still wouldn't really be a wait out the recession strategy.

Thanks for the input. I guess this may not be the best strategy. I thought that with the economy declining, the only way to switch fields is to wait out this downturn for a short while, but the downside would be tons of debt and a worse job.