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Could I please get some insight on Littler Mendelson? (e.g., comp, billable, culture, face time, anything you think is important, etc.) Any application or interview advice? Is it easier to get in through a recruiter or directly applying? Any insight on if they pay the same across all offices? I'm particularly interested in either the San Francisco or Walnut Creek office.

Thanks all!!

My wife works there. Not in the offices you mentioned. I wouldn’t do it. Culture just doesn’t seem great. They work you pretty hard too. And pay you a lot less than you could get at another big firm for that work. On the positive, she gets early case responsibility and such.

Pay is not uniform across offices. SF pays more than most if not all other locations, based on my understanding. Culture is good in the offices you mention (and i can compare to several big general practice firms), but I cannot speak to other locations. Pay is not top of market, but hours expectations are lower and there is less churn-n-burn culture. Career prospects are great. I'm not sure what the best way to approach applying is.

Anonymous User wrote:My wife works there. Not in the offices you mentioned. I wouldn’t do it. Culture just doesn’t seem great. They work you pretty hard too. And pay you a lot less than you could get at another big firm for that work. On the positive, she gets early case responsibility and such.

From your wife's perspective, would there be a firm she would say is a better choice to consider?

Anonymous User wrote:Pay is not uniform across offices. SF pays more than most if not all other locations, based on my understanding. Culture is good in the offices you mention (and i can compare to several big general practice firms), but I cannot speak to other locations. Pay is not top of market, but hours expectations are lower and there is less churn-n-burn culture. Career prospects are great. I'm not sure what the best way to approach applying is.

If you don't mind me asking, how far off top of market are we talking? I've heard hours are around 1900? If you have any additional insight you'd be willing to share with me about those two offices, it would be greatly appreciated!!

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:My wife works there. Not in the offices you mentioned. I wouldn’t do it. Culture just doesn’t seem great. They work you pretty hard too. And pay you a lot less than you could get at another big firm for that work. On the positive, she gets early case responsibility and such.

From your wife's perspective, would there be a firm she would say is a better choice to consider?

For her office, she would just say that based on the amount she works and the intense personalities, she might as well work in biglaw and get paid more. I’m in biglaw and the people seem objectively worse in her office than mine. But she doesn’t work very many weekends, so there’s that.

She also mentioned that at the firm retreat a lot of associates felt similarly about the firm.

Don’t work there and never have, but use them as outside counsel and I can say that when it comes to labor and employment, they’re one of the best. If that’s what you want to get into, Littler would be on the top of my list.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:My wife works there. Not in the offices you mentioned. I wouldn’t do it. Culture just doesn’t seem great. They work you pretty hard too. And pay you a lot less than you could get at another big firm for that work. On the positive, she gets early case responsibility and such.

From your wife's perspective, would there be a firm she would say is a better choice to consider?

For her office, she would just say that based on the amount she works and the intense personalities, she might as well work in biglaw and get paid more. I’m in biglaw and the people seem objectively worse in her office than mine. But she doesn’t work very many weekends, so there’s that.

She also mentioned that at the firm retreat a lot of associates felt similarly about the firm.

Thank you! Would you or your wife recommend any biglaw firms for L&E? I'm all for working hard, but I am admittedly trying to preserve somewhat of a life (e.g., some time after work on the weekdays to at least watch a show and have dinner and the weekends to myself minus some emergency situations)

1styearlateral wrote:Don’t work there and never have, but use them as outside counsel and I can say that when it comes to labor and employment, they’re one of the best. If that’s what you want to get into, Littler would be on the top of my list.

This is very helpful! From your experience in using outside counsel, are there other firms you would recommend as a "go-to"? Any firms that you've heard are good or bad to work at as an attorney? (e.g., you've seen miserable attorneys at an particular outside counsel's firm? or happier attorneys at a particular outside counsel's firm?)

Anonymous User wrote:

1styearlateral wrote:Don’t work there and never have, but use them as outside counsel and I can say that when it comes to labor and employment, they’re one of the best. If that’s what you want to get into, Littler would be on the top of my list.

This is very helpful! From your experience in using outside counsel, are there other firms you would recommend as a "go-to"? Any firms that you've heard are good or bad to work at as an attorney? (e.g., you've seen miserable attorneys at an particular outside counsel's firm? or happier attorneys at a particular outside counsel's firm?)

Not the OP that mentioned using Littler as outside counsel, but would also highly recommend Morgan Lewis SF’s labor and employment practice group (LEPG). Biglaw comp, non-terrible hours, personable partners, and it’s also just a top shop for labor and employment.

Anonymous User wrote:

1styearlateral wrote:Don’t work there and never have, but use them as outside counsel and I can say that when it comes to labor and employment, they’re one of the best. If that’s what you want to get into, Littler would be on the top of my list.

This is very helpful! From your experience in using outside counsel, are there other firms you would recommend as a "go-to"? Any firms that you've heard are good or bad to work at as an attorney? (e.g., you've seen miserable attorneys at an particular outside counsel's firm? or happier attorneys at a particular outside counsel's firm?)

I can't really speak to QOL at any of these specific firms, but my understanding is that the top L&E firms are Littler, Morgan Lewis (as stated above by the other poster), Seyfarth, and Proskauer. Then you have your second-tier firms, like Jackson Lewis (I think their motto used to be "All we do is work", which might give you insight into QOL at that firm LOL), who pay closer to Littler I think. If you can get into a Seyfarth/ML/Proskauer, I think that's the move. Same high-quality work, market pay/bonus, and good name recognition. The attraction to Littler I think is they have an office in nearly every city in the world (this is why we use them, in addition to their lower billable rates), so they have a larger footprint and could appeal to someone who wants to be in a top L&E shop but not have to live in NYC/LA/etc.

Never forget SeyfarTTTh tried to stop the raises. Their bonus policy also sucks. They should be shamed for eternity.

LaLiLuLeLo wrote:Never forget SeyfarTTTh tried to stop the raises. Their bonus policy also sucks. They should be shamed for eternity.

Stop the raises? Like they wanted to keep everyone at the same salary? For how long? Can you share what their bonus policy is and what sucked about it (if it's not obvious why it sucks)

I work at Littler in a secondary market. Decent firm, mileage will vary depending on who you work with. Work for new associates at any level is litigation heavy, but you can branch out. Great opportunities to work directly with clients. Pay is nothing to write home about, but the firm is financially conservative and jobs are secure (I hope?).

Anonymous User wrote:I work at Littler in a secondary market. Decent firm, mileage will vary depending on who you work with. Work for new associates at any level is litigation heavy, but you can branch out. Great opportunities to work directly with clients. Pay is nothing to write home about, but the firm is financially conservative and jobs are secure (I hope?).

Would you be willing to share what you make and what year of practice you're in? Is it true that secondary market offices are paid less? I was thinking about applying to Littler (before the COVID-19 situation hit), but do you know if the firm is still hiring or if there is a hiring freeze? Or if the firm is planning to slash salaries? I'm in my 3rd year of practice so more on the junior side. Also, how does work assignments go? Does a shareholder hand them out and you can tell them you need more work? Or do you have to get close to a shareholder to secure work? (in other words, if you're not "in" then you could be deprived of sufficient work?)

Thanks in advance and fingers crossed we all weather this fiasco!

Anon at Littler here. Sure, glad to share. I am mid-level, pay is sub 200k, but well above 150k. Yes, there is definitely a cost of living adjustment by market, but I am not sure how much. You can definitely expect more in New York and in CA offices. No pay cuts or hiring freezes on the horizon as far as I know, but that information would not likely be shared in advance. From what I understand, work was steady during the 2008 recession and we work at a fairly competitive price point relative to ML/Seyfarth/etc.

How work is assigned varies by office. There is usually plenty of work to go around. Of course relationships with partners and clients, as well as subject matter expertise, increase the quality of work you receive. Unless you are in a very small office I would not expect to have to go knock on doors for work.

Anonymous User wrote:

LaLiLuLeLo wrote:Never forget SeyfarTTTh tried to stop the raises. Their bonus policy also sucks. They should be shamed for eternity.

Stop the raises? Like they wanted to keep everyone at the same salary? For how long? Can you share what their bonus policy is and what sucked about it (if it's not obvious why it sucks)

It’s all on above the law

Anonymous User wrote:Anon at Littler here. Sure, glad to share. I am mid-level, pay is sub 200k, but well above 150k. Yes, there is definitely a cost of living adjustment by market, but I am not sure how much. You can definitely expect more in New York and in CA offices. No pay cuts or hiring freezes on the horizon as far as I know, but that information would not likely be shared in advance. From what I understand, work was steady during the 2008 recession and we work at a fairly competitive price point relative to ML/Seyfarth/etc.

How work is assigned varies by office. There is usually plenty of work to go around. Of course relationships with partners and clients, as well as subject matter expertise, increase the quality of work you receive. Unless you are in a very small office I would not expect to have to go knock on doors for work.

Thank you!! Have you heard anything about the SF or Walnut Creek offices? On a less important question, all attorneys get their own offices or is it a shared office or cubicle situation? Do you think it's better to apply directly or through a recruiter? For someone who is a 3rd year, would it be fair to say I'd be around $160 or $170k? Or am I overestimating?

Thanks again for all your help!

My guess is that 160k or 170k is right for SF/Walnut Creek as a 3rd year, but maybe more. SF is the home office with some of the firm’s largest clients and higher profile partners. Expectations and hours are probably higher than average in SF. I would not describe the attorneys I work with there as relaxed or low key, but they are great lawyers. Of course, it also comes with some of the best client opportunities. Walnut Creek is smaller and (likely) more relaxed.

I am not sure on recruiter vs. direct apply. Associates are not involved in the hiring process. I do not want to steer you in the wrong direction. Best of luck with your app!

Anonymous User wrote:My guess is that 160k or 170k is right for SF/Walnut Creek as a 3rd year, but maybe more. SF is the home office with some of the firm’s largest clients and higher profile partners. Expectations and hours are probably higher than average in SF. I would not describe the attorneys I work with there as relaxed or low key, but they are great lawyers. Of course, it also comes with some of the best client opportunities. Walnut Creek is smaller and (likely) more relaxed.

I am not sure on recruiter vs. direct apply. Associates are not involved in the hiring process. I do not want to steer you in the wrong direction. Best of luck with your app!

Thank you!!

Anyone know what LM salary is in Phx for mid-levels and seniors? Seeing they're hiring but recruiters aren't telling me without phone calls and I refuse to give into that.