Susman Godfrey 5th Year Associate - AMA Forum

[emmalinea]

Hi! Can you please describe your hours and work in a 'typical' day and a 'chaotic' day? i.e. start at 9am and leave at midnight, etc.

Also, does SG hire from other firms? Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

Can you describe your path to SG? What did you do your 1L and 2L summer? Also, can you talk about how you secured your FC? When did you begin applying ? How long into/after your clerkship did you interview with SG? Thanks for doing this!

[Anonymous User]

The H1B problem isn't applicable to me as I'm here under TN, but you're right that it probably does factor in their lack of concern. I'm aware of the Alaska et al exception, I actually got to like round 4 of Kleinfeld's ridiculous process.

I should say that it's not so much that I think the clerkship requirement is problematic, just that it's a bit arbitrary of a line. Like, does anyone seriously think that the clerkship for random Dakota district judge is close to Del SSC/Chancery/California SSC/etc.? Obviously I'm biased here, but I think they could broaden the category without losing anything.

Ah, sorry you got stuck in the Kleinfeld grinder! I actually have a friend who clerked for him and had a terrific experience, but his interview process is something else for sure.

Agree that CA Supreme Court is at least as hard to get as an A3 district clerkship in some random rural region, but a state supreme court, or Del Chancery for that matter, probably offers a pretty different experience from a federal district clerkship. Still, agree that probably makes sense to loosen the A3 clerkship requirement a bit.

Looks like the OP has taken a break and I"m a SG associate. In terms of "qualifications" you may very well be right that the A3 requirement doesn't make a lot of sense when looking at clerking for the California Supreme Court or similar well-known state courts. That said, I've always viewed the A3 requirement as serving two functions. The first is a rough indicator of being able to do the job as you mention. The other is a really a marketing function. Being able to tell clients (who are often GCs and know the relative "prestige" of an A3 clerkship) that all of your lawyers clerked for federal judges is a good selling point to potential clients and clerking for even the California Supreme Court may not have the same punch. Just a hunch on my part, but something worth considering.

[Anonymous User]

SG lawyers or other knowledgeable people: Is there a significant marginal benefit to a major city federal district court clerkship on top of a federal appellate clerkship for elite lit boutique hiring? What about double appellate clerkships? Thanks for doing this!

[LBJ's Hair]

SG lawyers or other knowledgeable people: Is there a significant marginal benefit to a major city federal district court clerkship on top of a federal appellate clerkship for elite lit boutique hiring? What about double appellate clerkships? Thanks for doing this!

Browsing at Susman's website, looks like plenty of their associates did one COA and no district court clerkship (most of their CA5s didn't for example). So if you wanna do a district court clerkship, seems like go for it, but for Susman seems it's by no means "necessary."

The standard advice for double-COA is that unless it's a feeder and you want SCOTUS, it's a waste of time. You'll learn more, get paid more just working at a law firm, and there's no real incremental brand value to an additional COA. Don't think it'll *hurt*, just will probably be asked a question about it in an interview. ("Oh I see you did a Sixth Circuit and a Ninth Circuit clerkship, you don't see that a lot, how'd you end up doing two")

[Anonymous User]

What are the main factors that explain Susman’s ability to pay materially higher salaries than other elite firms? More plaintiffs work? Longer hours? Why do you think more firms with highly-credentialed lawyers haven’t tried to replicate Susman’s model?

[Anonymous User]

Thanks, OP. For applicants coming off a clerkship, does Susman have a grade cutoff? Would it vary by school, T14/T6/HYS and would it depend on whether you did a COA, District, or both?

[Anonymous User]

SG lawyers or other knowledgeable people: Is there a significant marginal benefit to a major city federal district court clerkship on top of a federal appellate clerkship for elite lit boutique hiring? What about double appellate clerkships? Thanks for doing this!

Non-OP SG Associate Here--At the most generic level, the answer to your question is there is likely a marginal benefit, so yes. That said, in general, it isn't something that is really necessary and may not give you a huge boost in most circumstances. Some considerations include:

* If both judges are really well-known, prestigious judges (whether feeders or not), then definitely a boost.
* If one judge is in flyover country and not well-known and you were able to jump to a second clerkship with a well-known judge in a major city, etc. then it's going to be helpful. (Trust me, there are definitely some people at the firm who get really picky about their perceptions of judicial prestige.)
* If you do a second clerkship, make sure you have a good answer about why.
* I would say if you do two, probably best to do one at each level (district and appellate) rather than two at the same level.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks, OP. For applicants coming off a clerkship, does Susman have a grade cutoff? Would it vary by school, T14/T6/HYS and would it depend on whether you did a COA, District, or both?

Non-OP SG Associate: I've never heard of a grade cutoff, but you definitely want to be at the higher end of your class. Clerkships will typically not give you a boost unless it is for like a feeder judge, in which case you probably already meet whatever standard there is for grades. The school can matter a bit, I suppose, but not by much given that we only recruit from the top schools anyway.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks, OP. For applicants coming off a clerkship, does Susman have a grade cutoff? Would it vary by school, T14/T6/HYS and would it depend on whether you did a COA, District, or both?

Non-OP SG Associate: I've never heard of a grade cutoff, but you definitely want to be at the higher end of your class. Clerkships will typically not give you a boost unless it is for like a feeder judge, in which case you probably already meet whatever standard there is for grades. The school can matter a bit, I suppose, but not by much given that we only recruit from the top schools anyway.

Bumping this back up to inquire how important law review is at elite lit boutiques, like Susman? I am at a t6 and think I meet most of the other criteria (including fit), but I did not make the flagship journal. Is this a big deal? Should I find some other way (like getting published) to demonstrate that I can write?

[Anonymous User]

How is Susman handling the COVID-related downturn?

[Anonymous User]

Thanks, OP. For applicants coming off a clerkship, does Susman have a grade cutoff? Would it vary by school, T14/T6/HYS and would it depend on whether you did a COA, District, or both?

Non-OP SG Associate: I've never heard of a grade cutoff, but you definitely want to be at the higher end of your class. Clerkships will typically not give you a boost unless it is for like a feeder judge, in which case you probably already meet whatever standard there is for grades. The school can matter a bit, I suppose, but not by much given that we only recruit from the top schools anyway.

Bumping this back up to inquire how important law review is at elite lit boutiques, like Susman? I am at a t6 and think I meet most of the other criteria (including fit), but I did not make the flagship journal. Is this a big deal? Should I find some other way (like getting published) to demonstrate that I can write?

Bumping this. Coif t13 graduate, semi-feeder clerkship-- does no LR doom my application?

[Anonymous User]

maybe it's just because I was not on a journal, but it almost seems silly the emphasis placed on it throughout early stages of a career *even for applicants who clerked on a COA* To that end is it more a journal/no journal or is there still also a law review/secondary divide?

[Anonymous User]

Thanks, OP. For applicants coming off a clerkship, does Susman have a grade cutoff? Would it vary by school, T14/T6/HYS and would it depend on whether you did a COA, District, or both?

Non-OP SG Associate: I've never heard of a grade cutoff, but you definitely want to be at the higher end of your class. Clerkships will typically not give you a boost unless it is for like a feeder judge, in which case you probably already meet whatever standard there is for grades. The school can matter a bit, I suppose, but not by much given that we only recruit from the top schools anyway.

Bumping this back up to inquire how important law review is at elite lit boutiques, like Susman? I am at a t6 and think I meet most of the other criteria (including fit), but I did not make the flagship journal. Is this a big deal? Should I find some other way (like getting published) to demonstrate that I can write?

Bumping this. Coif t13 graduate, semi-feeder clerkship-- does no LR doom my application?

Can't speak to Susman in particular (never applied), but had success with similarly-selective firms with a similar profile. (Top 5% at T6, fancy clerkship, no LR.) My sense is that these days the pure signaling value has greatly decreased, and the substantive value for writing is more than adequately covered by a good COA clerkship.

Would still recommend people do it if possible! If nothing else, it's a good resume line and helpful for networking. Just not a dealbreaker to have missed it, at least in my pretty recent experience.

Again, possible that Susman has an idiosyncratically strong preference for LR--hopefully OP can give some color on that.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks, OP. For applicants coming off a clerkship, does Susman have a grade cutoff? Would it vary by school, T14/T6/HYS and would it depend on whether you did a COA, District, or both?

Non-OP SG Associate: I've never heard of a grade cutoff, but you definitely want to be at the higher end of your class. Clerkships will typically not give you a boost unless it is for like a feeder judge, in which case you probably already meet whatever standard there is for grades. The school can matter a bit, I suppose, but not by much given that we only recruit from the top schools anyway.

Bumping this back up to inquire how important law review is at elite lit boutiques, like Susman? I am at a t6 and think I meet most of the other criteria (including fit), but I did not make the flagship journal. Is this a big deal? Should I find some other way (like getting published) to demonstrate that I can write?

Bumping this. Coif t13 graduate, semi-feeder clerkship-- does no LR doom my application?

Can't speak to Susman in particular (never applied), but had success with similarly-selective firms with a similar profile. (Top 5% at T6, fancy clerkship, no LR.) My sense is that these days the pure signaling value has greatly decreased, and the substantive value for writing is more than adequately covered by a good COA clerkship.

Would still recommend people do it if possible! If nothing else, it's a good resume line and helpful for networking. Just not a dealbreaker to have missed it, at least in my pretty recent experience.

Again, possible that Susman has an idiosyncratically strong preference for LR--hopefully OP can give some color on that.

I don’t think they really care as much as they say they do. Several friends who had summer associate offers weren’t on law review (even though Susman’s OCI post for our school said it was “required”) and I know former associates who weren’t on law review. If you have the grades to get a fancy clerkship why would they care about law review? Seems quite stupid. I know the same is true for other similarly fancy places (like MTO, which cares about grades not law review).

[Anonymous User]

I'm guessing the people from Susman are no longer tracking this thread, but if anyone knows: does Susman consider lateral hires? Their website is sort of unclear on this point. You can email their recruiting person, but I'm wondering if they do, or have ever really been interested in, laterals in a serious way (as opposed to just leaving the option open on their website).

[Anonymous User]

Thanks, OP. For applicants coming off a clerkship, does Susman have a grade cutoff? Would it vary by school, T14/T6/HYS and would it depend on whether you did a COA, District, or both?

Non-OP SG Associate: I've never heard of a grade cutoff, but you definitely want to be at the higher end of your class. Clerkships will typically not give you a boost unless it is for like a feeder judge, in which case you probably already meet whatever standard there is for grades. The school can matter a bit, I suppose, but not by much given that we only recruit from the top schools anyway.

Bumping this back up to inquire how important law review is at elite lit boutiques, like Susman? I am at a t6 and think I meet most of the other criteria (including fit), but I did not make the flagship journal. Is this a big deal? Should I find some other way (like getting published) to demonstrate that I can write?

Bumping this. Coif t13 graduate, semi-feeder clerkship-- does no LR doom my application?

SG Associate here: LR isn't a huge deal and certainly not having LR is not a deal-breaker, though you probably should have some type of journal experience. Grades, school, and clerkship are much more important. That said, if you were on the same LR as a number of people in the office, they probably may be a bit more predisposed in your favor (for example, lots of Texas LR folks in the Houston office and plenty of Harvard/Columbia folks in the NY office).

[Anonymous User]

I'm guessing the people from Susman are no longer tracking this thread, but if anyone knows: does Susman consider lateral hires? Their website is sort of unclear on this point. You can email their recruiting person, but I'm wondering if they do, or have ever really been interested in, laterals in a serious way (as opposed to just leaving the option open on their website).

It's possible, but also exceptionally rare. There is at least one lateral in NY that I know about. The best way to do this is by working for a firm, then clerking, and then applying to SG during the clerkship. If you've already clerked and want to lateral, I would suggest trying to reach out to people in the office that you are interested in, setting up informational interviews, and push to get your name known--especially find out who is on the employment committee from your desired office and get to know them. That said, it's probably easier the less time you have out of law school.

[SG-Lawyer]

I'm guessing the people from Susman are no longer tracking this thread, but if anyone knows: does Susman consider lateral hires? Their website is sort of unclear on this point. You can email their recruiting person, but I'm wondering if they do, or have ever really been interested in, laterals in a serious way (as opposed to just leaving the option open on their website).

There's a few problematic aspects of hiring laterals. On the culture/practice side, laterals tend to come with bad habits. We have a certain way of working up cases and would prefer to start with a clean slate. On the business side, it does not make a lot of sense to pay a lateral a, for example, third-year associate salary, when they have less real experience than our first year associates.

That being said, we do hire laterals in exceptional cases.

[SG-Lawyer]

Thanks, OP. For applicants coming off a clerkship, does Susman have a grade cutoff? Would it vary by school, T14/T6/HYS and would it depend on whether you did a COA, District, or both?

Non-OP SG Associate: I've never heard of a grade cutoff, but you definitely want to be at the higher end of your class. Clerkships will typically not give you a boost unless it is for like a feeder judge, in which case you probably already meet whatever standard there is for grades. The school can matter a bit, I suppose, but not by much given that we only recruit from the top schools anyway.

Bumping this back up to inquire how important law review is at elite lit boutiques, like Susman? I am at a t6 and think I meet most of the other criteria (including fit), but I did not make the flagship journal. Is this a big deal? Should I find some other way (like getting published) to demonstrate that I can write?

Bumping this. Coif t13 graduate, semi-feeder clerkship-- does no LR doom my application?

Law review is a nice credential to include on bios for the benefit of our clients. That being said, I don't nix people for not being on law review. In recent years, schools have wildly different approaches to selecting law review members, so it doesn't seem fair to use it as a gating function. In short, I consider it a plus factor but lacking LR experience is not an issue.

That being said, if you don't do a journal of any kind, it makes me think you are lazy. Same for schools that I know offer LR spots based purely on grades and you qualify for a grade-on spot, but didn't accept.

[dab418]

Thanks, OP. For applicants coming off a clerkship, does Susman have a grade cutoff? Would it vary by school, T14/T6/HYS and would it depend on whether you did a COA, District, or both?

Non-OP SG Associate: I've never heard of a grade cutoff, but you definitely want to be at the higher end of your class. Clerkships will typically not give you a boost unless it is for like a feeder judge, in which case you probably already meet whatever standard there is for grades. The school can matter a bit, I suppose, but not by much given that we only recruit from the top schools anyway.

Bumping this back up to inquire how important law review is at elite lit boutiques, like Susman? I am at a t6 and think I meet most of the other criteria (including fit), but I did not make the flagship journal. Is this a big deal? Should I find some other way (like getting published) to demonstrate that I can write?

Bumping this. Coif t13 graduate, semi-feeder clerkship-- does no LR doom my application?

Law review is a nice credential to include on bios for the benefit of our clients. That being said, I don't nix people for not being on law review. In recent years, schools have wildly different approaches to selecting law review members, so it doesn't seem fair to use it as a gating function. In short, I consider it a plus factor but lacking LR experience is not an issue.

That being said, if you don't do a journal of any kind, it makes me think you are lazy. Same for schools that I know offer LR spots based purely on grades and you qualify for a grade-on spot, but didn't accept.

At my school, there is a clear #2 journal after LR (based on GPA, big firm hiring, clerkships, etc.). A decent number of people on my journal have higher GPA's than those on LR because of the way our school does journal selection. Is there a way to communicate that my journal is #2 on a resume or cover letter without sounding weird or obnoxious? Thanks!

[ClubberLang]

I'm guessing the people from Susman are no longer tracking this thread, but if anyone knows: does Susman consider lateral hires? Their website is sort of unclear on this point. You can email their recruiting person, but I'm wondering if they do, or have ever really been interested in, laterals in a serious way (as opposed to just leaving the option open on their website).

There's a few problematic aspects of hiring laterals. On the culture/practice side, laterals tend to come with bad habits. We have a certain way of working up cases and would prefer to start with a clean slate. On the business side, it does not make a lot of sense to pay a lateral a, for example, third-year associate salary, when they have less real experience than our first year associates.

That being said, we do hire laterals in exceptional cases.

Do SG lawyers like the smell of each other's farts too? Your comment about third years with less experience than first years is absurd.

[Anonymous User]

Curious as to what SG's clerkship/signing bonus clawback is?

[Anonymous User]

this feels ... sorta fake. it's like, very specific, but seems specifically ... wrong? (the comp, the whole "calling judges", the thing about institutional clients not caring about who does depo/trial work...)

if real, I would delete this thread immediately because you have told us you are a (a) 5th year, (b) at SG, (c) in Houston ... it's just like trivially easy to identify you.

Yo I've gone through every litigation boutique tls thread. In virtually every single one, you are the most annoying, negative, thread-killer. Please tell us which firm you ended up at so that I can never, ever go there.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks, OP. For applicants coming off a clerkship, does Susman have a grade cutoff? Would it vary by school, T14/T6/HYS and would it depend on whether you did a COA, District, or both?

Non-OP SG Associate: I've never heard of a grade cutoff, but you definitely want to be at the higher end of your class. Clerkships will typically not give you a boost unless it is for like a feeder judge, in which case you probably already meet whatever standard there is for grades. The school can matter a bit, I suppose, but not by much given that we only recruit from the top schools anyway.

Bumping this back up to inquire how important law review is at elite lit boutiques, like Susman? I am at a t6 and think I meet most of the other criteria (including fit), but I did not make the flagship journal. Is this a big deal? Should I find some other way (like getting published) to demonstrate that I can write?

Bumping this. Coif t13 graduate, semi-feeder clerkship-- does no LR doom my application?

Can't speak to Susman in particular (never applied), but had success with similarly-selective firms with a similar profile. (Top 5% at T6, fancy clerkship, no LR.) My sense is that these days the pure signaling value has greatly decreased, and the substantive value for writing is more than adequately covered by a good COA clerkship.

Would still recommend people do it if possible! If nothing else, it's a good resume line and helpful for networking. Just not a dealbreaker to have missed it, at least in my pretty recent experience.

Again, possible that Susman has an idiosyncratically strong preference for LR--hopefully OP can give some color on that.

YHS/top 5%/no LR/fancy clerkships/offers from every elite lit boutique. I can confirm. LR might make some marginal difference, and maybe more so the lower down you go on the rankings (maybe...can't confirm), but LR is neither necessary nor sufficient. Generally it's school, grades, clerkship, and fit.

I think OP said it's a holistically analysis. That sounds right to me. You're not getting an interview at Susman/Bartlit/Kellogg unless you have objectively dope stuff on your application. After that, it's about whether you want to be a trial attorney and whether they can see wanting to work with you.