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eastcoast_iub

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Re: How much money saved before you'd bounce from biglaw?

Post by eastcoast_iub » Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:24 pm

LaLiLuLeLo wrote:most Biglaw lawyers have access to a private bank mortgage. If I had locked last week, I would’ve had an interest rate under 3%. Mortgage rates are extremely low - they’re not much higher than inflation. Aggressively paying down your mortgage with such low rates is dumb and a waste of liquidity.
It's a waste of liquidity if you have somewhere better to put your money. I can avoid 3.25% interest, or I can put money in cash right now earning 1.25%, or I can put money in a market whose bottom is falling out (and for which the end is not in sight). Which do you think is a better use of my money?

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Re: How much money saved before you'd bounce from biglaw?

Post by LaLiLuLeLo » Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:09 pm

eastcoast_iub wrote:
LaLiLuLeLo wrote:most Biglaw lawyers have access to a private bank mortgage. If I had locked last week, I would’ve had an interest rate under 3%. Mortgage rates are extremely low - they’re not much higher than inflation. Aggressively paying down your mortgage with such low rates is dumb and a waste of liquidity.
It's a waste of liquidity if you have somewhere better to put your money. I can avoid 3.25% interest, or I can put money in cash right now earning 1.25%, or I can put money in a market whose bottom is falling out (and for which the end is not in sight). Which do you think is a better use of my money?
Unless you’re 60 years old, the answer is very obviously putting money in the market. You do realize you should be considering the rate of return over decades, not just today, correct?

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Re: How much money saved before you'd bounce from biglaw?

Post by eastcoast_iub » Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:26 pm

LaLiLuLeLo wrote:
eastcoast_iub wrote:
LaLiLuLeLo wrote:most Biglaw lawyers have access to a private bank mortgage. If I had locked last week, I would’ve had an interest rate under 3%. Mortgage rates are extremely low - they’re not much higher than inflation. Aggressively paying down your mortgage with such low rates is dumb and a waste of liquidity.
It's a waste of liquidity if you have somewhere better to put your money. I can avoid 3.25% interest, or I can put money in cash right now earning 1.25%, or I can put money in a market whose bottom is falling out (and for which the end is not in sight). Which do you think is a better use of my money?
Unless you’re 60 years old, the answer is very obviously putting money in the market. You do realize you should be considering the rate of return over decades, not just today, correct?
Yes, which is why I have hundreds of thousands of dollars in my 401(k) and personal investment account. I don't think it's prudent to invest large sums of non-retirement savings in the market during these times though. The market could still have a lot further to fall. I'm glad I didn't invest a whole bunch of money 6 weeks ago.

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Re: How much money saved before you'd bounce from biglaw?

Post by ajax » Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:50 am

LaLiLuLeLo wrote:
eastcoast_iub wrote:
LaLiLuLeLo wrote:most Biglaw lawyers have access to a private bank mortgage. If I had locked last week, I would’ve had an interest rate under 3%. Mortgage rates are extremely low - they’re not much higher than inflation. Aggressively paying down your mortgage with such low rates is dumb and a waste of liquidity.
It's a waste of liquidity if you have somewhere better to put your money. I can avoid 3.25% interest, or I can put money in cash right now earning 1.25%, or I can put money in a market whose bottom is falling out (and for which the end is not in sight). Which do you think is a better use of my money?
Unless you’re 60 years old, the answer is very obviously putting money in the market. You do realize you should be considering the rate of return over decades, not just today, correct?
There is a lot of incomplete investment advice in this forum. People need to search a historical graph of the Nikkei to understand that stocks do not always go up. The stock market is STILL massively overvalued at these levels. Take a look at a graph of market cap to GDP. Could the Federal Reserve and fiscal policy inflate the market again, sure. But people really need to stop throwing around investment advice to buy equities like it is gospel.

PAST PERFORMANCE DOES NOT GUARANTEE FUTURE RESULTS.

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Re: How much money saved before you'd bounce from biglaw?

Post by LaLiLuLeLo » Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:45 am

ajax wrote:
LaLiLuLeLo wrote:
eastcoast_iub wrote:
LaLiLuLeLo wrote:most Biglaw lawyers have access to a private bank mortgage. If I had locked last week, I would’ve had an interest rate under 3%. Mortgage rates are extremely low - they’re not much higher than inflation. Aggressively paying down your mortgage with such low rates is dumb and a waste of liquidity.
It's a waste of liquidity if you have somewhere better to put your money. I can avoid 3.25% interest, or I can put money in cash right now earning 1.25%, or I can put money in a market whose bottom is falling out (and for which the end is not in sight). Which do you think is a better use of my money?
Unless you’re 60 years old, the answer is very obviously putting money in the market. You do realize you should be considering the rate of return over decades, not just today, correct?
There is a lot of incomplete investment advice in this forum. People need to search a historical graph of the Nikkei to understand that stocks do not always go up. The stock market is STILL massively overvalued at these levels. Take a look at a graph of market cap to GDP. Could the Federal Reserve and fiscal policy inflate the market again, sure. But people really need to stop throwing around investment advice to buy equities like it is gospel.

PAST PERFORMANCE DOES NOT GUARANTEE FUTURE RESULTS.
Whoops, forgot my FLS :roll:

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nealric

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Re: How much money saved before you'd bounce from biglaw?

Post by nealric » Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:12 pm

ajax wrote:
LaLiLuLeLo wrote:
eastcoast_iub wrote:
LaLiLuLeLo wrote:most Biglaw lawyers have access to a private bank mortgage. If I had locked last week, I would’ve had an interest rate under 3%. Mortgage rates are extremely low - they’re not much higher than inflation. Aggressively paying down your mortgage with such low rates is dumb and a waste of liquidity.
It's a waste of liquidity if you have somewhere better to put your money. I can avoid 3.25% interest, or I can put money in cash right now earning 1.25%, or I can put money in a market whose bottom is falling out (and for which the end is not in sight). Which do you think is a better use of my money?
Unless you’re 60 years old, the answer is very obviously putting money in the market. You do realize you should be considering the rate of return over decades, not just today, correct?
There is a lot of incomplete investment advice in this forum. People need to search a historical graph of the Nikkei to understand that stocks do not always go up. The stock market is STILL massively overvalued at these levels. Take a look at a graph of market cap to GDP. Could the Federal Reserve and fiscal policy inflate the market again, sure. But people really need to stop throwing around investment advice to buy equities like it is gospel.

PAST PERFORMANCE DOES NOT GUARANTEE FUTURE RESULTS.
Of course, but I think people sometimes draw the wrong conclusions from the Nikkei. It's true that if you went all in at the peak of the Nikkei, you would have lost considerable money that would have never returned. But if you were a Japanese retirement investor and continued to make normal bi-weekly contributions to a Nikkei index fund over the last 30 years, you would have seen positive returns.

I like to use Portfolio Visualizer for such scenarios:

https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... sisResults

The longest-running Nikkei index fund I could find for use in porfolio visualizer is JPXN, which only goes to 2002. But it shows you would have done quite well as an index investor in Japan with $15k annual contributions starting at that date with an ending balance of over $4MM today. Supposing you started investing in Japan 40 years ago (before the crash), you would have of course suffered considerable losses in the 1990s, but you would have also been buying stocks at extreme low valuations in the aftermath. The risk of a Japan scenario is not to a young investor- it's to people near retirement. Someone who was mostly allocated to equity immediately before the crash and tried to retire without changing their allocation would have been in trouble. That's why your asset allocation should reflect your age and risk profile.

Essentially the only times when someone investing biweekly in the index for 40 years would have not earned reasonable positive returns would be something like a German starting in 1905 and attempting to retire in 1945. Obviously, that would not have gone well. In 2020, analogous risks can be hedged to a degree with investments in foreign markets, which would have been much less accessible to an investor 100 years ago. Of course the entire world could end up like 1945 Germany at some point, but then your investments would probably be the least of your worries.

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Re: How much money saved before you'd bounce from biglaw?

Post by The Lsat Airbender » Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:23 pm

nealric wrote:Of course the entire world could end up like 1945 Germany at some point, but then your investments would probably be the least of your worries.
This is the key point. The sorts of circumstances that would make equities, as a class, a bad long-term bet would also destroy value stored in corporate paper, Treasuries/greenbacks and most kinds of real estate. Maybe even gold. It's arguably worth planning for societal breakdown(the current pandemic feels like a wake-up call to many) but cash in a mattress, or equity in a surburban 4-bedroom, isn't any better.

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Re: How much money saved before you'd bounce from biglaw?

Post by spyke123 » Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:36 am

I think, while mostly true, it is important put" equities will always go up long term" belief into some perspective. Historically, American equities appear to have greatly outperformed equities in other parts of the world - just look at the historical returns on FTSE and Hang Seng and you notice the difference. Maybe there are just fundamental differences among the markets but I dont think it is fair to just look at historical S&P 500 returns and assume equities will just keep going up because thats what equities do (unless the world collapses).

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Re: How much money saved before you'd bounce from biglaw?

Post by dabigchina » Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:49 am

spyke123 wrote:I think, while mostly true, it is important put" equities will always go up long term" belief into some perspective. Historically, American equities appear to have greatly outperformed equities in other parts of the world - just look at the historical returns on FTSE and Hang Seng and you notice the difference. Maybe there are just fundamental differences among the markets but I dont think it is fair to just look at historical S&P 500 returns and assume equities will just keep going up because thats what equities do (unless the world collapses).
But what's the alternative? Putting money in a bank account to earn 0%? Buying treasuries to earn 0%? Pre paying mortgages to earn 2-3%

If we look at the FTSE, the average annualized return is 4.9% over the last 119 years (note, a period in which the British Empire fell from being THE preeminent great power to a secondary power). Still beats the hell out of pre paying a 3% mortgage.

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Re: How much money saved before you'd bounce from biglaw?

Post by nealric » Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:56 pm

dabigchina wrote:
spyke123 wrote:I think, while mostly true, it is important put" equities will always go up long term" belief into some perspective. Historically, American equities appear to have greatly outperformed equities in other parts of the world - just look at the historical returns on FTSE and Hang Seng and you notice the difference. Maybe there are just fundamental differences among the markets but I dont think it is fair to just look at historical S&P 500 returns and assume equities will just keep going up because thats what equities do (unless the world collapses).
But what's the alternative? Putting money in a bank account to earn 0%? Buying treasuries to earn 0%? Pre paying mortgages to earn 2-3%

If we look at the FTSE, the average annualized return is 4.9% over the last 119 years (note, a period in which the British Empire fell from being THE preeminent great power to a secondary power). Still beats the hell out of pre paying a 3% mortgage.
The most viable alternative is real estate. But managing rental real estate can be a second job. It's also very risky if you need leverage, as the vast majority do, because a downturn could precipitate an acute liquidity crisis. There's really no perfect investment that will guarantee the return most folks need to build a healthy retirement nest egg. Everything has downsides.

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Re: How much money saved before you'd bounce from biglaw?

Post by AVBucks4239 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:44 am

eastcoast_iub wrote:This thread expanded beyond leaving big law, and I am not speaking in that context. If I listened to someone like you, I'd be out tens of thousands of dollars already chasing lost opportunity cost. With a significant amount tied up in equities through my 401(k) and personal investment account, I'm glad I don't have all my eggs in one basket like you are recommending to people.

I did not think my point would be made so suddenly and forcefully, but keep telling me how I would be better off if I had just sunk $100,000 in the market 6 weeks ago. :roll: I'd call this more than a daily fluctuation champ. And lucky for me I still have tons of liquidity if I need it, or decide I want to buy on the lows (which, by the way, could be a long way off).
Remember, eastcoast_iub is advocating for putting more equity into your house. Can you imagine what the housing market looks like right now? 3.3 million people filed for unemployment. Companies are going out of business left and right. Articles in Bloomberg are indicating that big chains are exercising force majuere clauses and not paying rent. Who is going to buy? Supply is going to dry up.

Remember, eastcoast_iub stated certain markets (NYC, DC) were immune to huge downturns. Well, turns out NYC's listings are going way, way down: https://nypost.com/2020/03/25/coronavir ... port-says/

We are the possible precipice of a significant dip in the real estate market that could reflect what's happened to the stock market. Millions of Americans' houses may be underwater very, very quickly.

***

Here's the point -- we are lawyers, not investment bankers. To think you are going to be smarter than the market is just absurd. And to think the real estate market is somehow akin to a bond that will hold its value during an economic recession/depression is the height of ignorance as to how inter-connected the various sectors of our economy actually are.

If, it turns out, that the housing market gets hit like the stock market, then you will have invested a ton of capital in an underwater investment. You may take a huge, huge loss if you have to move.

So, again, in the short term, *even with* the market downturn, it's quite possible your investments would have been better in equities.

***

Lastly, the last three days is why you cannot try to "time" the bottom of the market. The market is up 15% in the last three days, which is insane. But there are a ton of people with their money parked on the side waiting for this to bottom out. The truth is that nobody knows when this will bottom out, but if you wait long enough for it to bottom out, you will miss the gains.

Now, the recent 15% surge could go down again. I have no earthly idea. But I am going to continue maxing out everything, like I always would. I have not changed a single thing with my investments.

If I invest $2,000/month, some of those, eventually, will have been invested at the bottom. Great! Some of those won't be at the bottom. Some of those will be on the rise. Point is that if you just consistently invest, you will be doing great.

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Re: How much money saved before you'd bounce from biglaw?

Post by Yugihoe » Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:38 pm

AVBucks4239 wrote:
If I invest $2,000/month, some of those, eventually, will have been invested at the bottom. Great! Some of those won't be at the bottom. Some of those will be on the rise. Point is that if you just consistently invest, you will be doing great.
This is the key. Buy on the way down. Buy on the way up. People who market time can of course get lucky, but it can go the other way too. Sure if you sold out in mid february and buy in now, you'll have still profited even if the market goes down further, compared to someone who stayed the course. Studies show that most people who capitulate wait out too long to jump back in though.

The biggest problem is staying employed during the bear market. I honestly don't care if the S&P hits 1700 and I am at a -50% return on my investments since I don't need my money for 20+ years, but I just need to have a job for the year or two or three that the market is depressed so I can keep buying with each paycheck. Having that big law salary is WAY MORE valuable during the recession than it is during all-time market highs.

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Re: How much money saved before you'd bounce from biglaw?

Post by nealric » Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:47 pm

Yugihoe wrote:
AVBucks4239 wrote:
If I invest $2,000/month, some of those, eventually, will have been invested at the bottom. Great! Some of those won't be at the bottom. Some of those will be on the rise. Point is that if you just consistently invest, you will be doing great.
This is the key. Buy on the way down. Buy on the way up. People who market time can of course get lucky, but it can go the other way too. Sure if you sold out in mid february and buy in now, you'll have still profited even if the market goes down further, compared to someone who stayed the course. Studies show that most people who capitulate wait out too long to jump back in though.

The biggest problem is staying employed during the bear market. I honestly don't care if the S&P hits 1700 and I am at a -50% return on my investments since I don't need my money for 20+ years, but I just need to have a job for the year or two or three that the market is depressed so I can keep buying with each paycheck. Having that big law salary is WAY MORE valuable during the recession than it is during all-time market highs.
That's the crux isn't it? Not only does losing your job eliminate your ability to buy though the downturn, it increases the likelihood that you would have to sell equities near the bottom to survive a period of unemployment. That's one argument for keeping a relatively large cash contingency fund.

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Re: How much money saved before you'd bounce from biglaw?

Post by Yugihoe » Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:50 pm

nealric wrote:
Yugihoe wrote:
AVBucks4239 wrote:
If I invest $2,000/month, some of those, eventually, will have been invested at the bottom. Great! Some of those won't be at the bottom. Some of those will be on the rise. Point is that if you just consistently invest, you will be doing great.
This is the key. Buy on the way down. Buy on the way up. People who market time can of course get lucky, but it can go the other way too. Sure if you sold out in mid february and buy in now, you'll have still profited even if the market goes down further, compared to someone who stayed the course. Studies show that most people who capitulate wait out too long to jump back in though.

The biggest problem is staying employed during the bear market. I honestly don't care if the S&P hits 1700 and I am at a -50% return on my investments since I don't need my money for 20+ years, but I just need to have a job for the year or two or three that the market is depressed so I can keep buying with each paycheck. Having that big law salary is WAY MORE valuable during the recession than it is during all-time market highs.
That's the crux isn't it? Not only does losing your job eliminate your ability to buy though the downturn, it increases the likelihood that you would have to sell equities near the bottom to survive a period of unemployment. That's one argument for keeping a relatively large cash contingency fund.
Yes definitely. In this environment, I wouldn't feel comfortable without a year's expenses in cash, at the very least. Would also start to look for ways to cut expenses.

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Re: How much money saved before you'd bounce from biglaw?

Post by AVBucks4239 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:56 pm

nealric wrote:
Yugihoe wrote:
AVBucks4239 wrote:
If I invest $2,000/month, some of those, eventually, will have been invested at the bottom. Great! Some of those won't be at the bottom. Some of those will be on the rise. Point is that if you just consistently invest, you will be doing great.
This is the key. Buy on the way down. Buy on the way up. People who market time can of course get lucky, but it can go the other way too. Sure if you sold out in mid february and buy in now, you'll have still profited even if the market goes down further, compared to someone who stayed the course. Studies show that most people who capitulate wait out too long to jump back in though.

The biggest problem is staying employed during the bear market. I honestly don't care if the S&P hits 1700 and I am at a -50% return on my investments since I don't need my money for 20+ years, but I just need to have a job for the year or two or three that the market is depressed so I can keep buying with each paycheck. Having that big law salary is WAY MORE valuable during the recession than it is during all-time market highs.
That's the crux isn't it? Not only does losing your job eliminate your ability to buy though the downturn, it increases the likelihood that you would have to sell equities near the bottom to survive a period of unemployment. That's one argument for keeping a relatively large cash contingency fund.
Agree, this entire thing has caused me to re-evaluate cash on hand. I'm extremely lucky in that I sold my house end of February and pocketed $22k, which is enough to float my family while my wife is basically unemployed (home health speech therapist, nobody is accepting visits).

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Re: How much money saved before you'd bounce from biglaw?

Post by nealric » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:52 pm

AVBucks4239 wrote:
nealric wrote:
Yugihoe wrote:
AVBucks4239 wrote:
If I invest $2,000/month, some of those, eventually, will have been invested at the bottom. Great! Some of those won't be at the bottom. Some of those will be on the rise. Point is that if you just consistently invest, you will be doing great.
This is the key. Buy on the way down. Buy on the way up. People who market time can of course get lucky, but it can go the other way too. Sure if you sold out in mid february and buy in now, you'll have still profited even if the market goes down further, compared to someone who stayed the course. Studies show that most people who capitulate wait out too long to jump back in though.

The biggest problem is staying employed during the bear market. I honestly don't care if the S&P hits 1700 and I am at a -50% return on my investments since I don't need my money for 20+ years, but I just need to have a job for the year or two or three that the market is depressed so I can keep buying with each paycheck. Having that big law salary is WAY MORE valuable during the recession than it is during all-time market highs.
That's the crux isn't it? Not only does losing your job eliminate your ability to buy though the downturn, it increases the likelihood that you would have to sell equities near the bottom to survive a period of unemployment. That's one argument for keeping a relatively large cash contingency fund.
Agree, this entire thing has caused me to re-evaluate cash on hand. I'm extremely lucky in that I sold my house end of February and pocketed $22k, which is enough to float my family while my wife is basically unemployed (home health speech therapist, nobody is accepting visits).
I actually sold my house two weeks ago after having paid two mortgages for 6 months. I feel incredibly fortunate as owning two houses would be quite scary right now.

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Re: How much money saved before you'd bounce from biglaw?

Post by PeanutsNJam » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:34 pm

AVBucks4239 wrote:Remember, eastcoast_iub stated certain markets (NYC, DC) were immune to huge downturns. Well, turns out NYC's listings are going way, way down: https://nypost.com/2020/03/25/coronavir ... port-says/
The supply/amount of new listings is going down, not the median price of listings. Nobody wants to show houses right now. That doesn't mean property value is tanking. It might, but that article doesn't say it is/will.

Of course, I do not agree that the best use of money right now is parking more money into your home--cash is king at the moment. If you have liquidity though, refinancing from 30 to 15 year and getting like a 2% rate would be pretty sweet.

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Re: How much money saved before you'd bounce from biglaw?

Post by AVBucks4239 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:58 am

PeanutsNJam wrote:
AVBucks4239 wrote:Remember, eastcoast_iub stated certain markets (NYC, DC) were immune to huge downturns. Well, turns out NYC's listings are going way, way down: https://nypost.com/2020/03/25/coronavir ... port-says/
The supply/amount of new listings is going down, not the median price of listings. Nobody wants to show houses right now. That doesn't mean property value is tanking. It might, but that article doesn't say it is/will.

Of course, I do not agree that the best use of money right now is parking more money into your home--cash is king at the moment. If you have liquidity though, refinancing from 30 to 15 year and getting like a 2% rate would be pretty sweet.
Agree with everything you said; my point was to state that the economy is interrelated, and eastcoast_iub's posts sound, to me at least, like he is treating real estate as something akin to a bond that does not have significant volatility.

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Re: How much money saved before you'd bounce from biglaw?

Post by nealric » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:15 am

PeanutsNJam wrote:
AVBucks4239 wrote:Remember, eastcoast_iub stated certain markets (NYC, DC) were immune to huge downturns. Well, turns out NYC's listings are going way, way down: https://nypost.com/2020/03/25/coronavir ... port-says/
The supply/amount of new listings is going down, not the median price of listings. Nobody wants to show houses right now. That doesn't mean property value is tanking. It might, but that article doesn't say it is/will.

Of course, I do not agree that the best use of money right now is parking more money into your home--cash is king at the moment. If you have liquidity though, refinancing from 30 to 15 year and getting like a 2% rate would be pretty sweet.
The time to get a super cheap mortgage was a few weeks ago. The mortgage market has gone totally wonky in tandem with the bond market, especially for certain products. 30 year Jumbos are actually near 52 week highs (well over 4%).

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Re: How much money saved before you'd bounce from biglaw?

Post by notinbiglaw » Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:38 am

A lot of the managers of actively managed funds (including PE/VC type of funds) got big chunks of their own discretionary funds invested in index funds or portfolios that essentially emulate index funds. And yes, they just keep investing even during market down turns for the most part despite the amount of time they'll spend on trying to time the market in their managed funds.

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Re: How much money saved before you'd bounce from biglaw?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:04 pm

notinbiglaw wrote:A lot of the managers of actively managed funds (including PE/VC type of funds) got big chunks of their own discretionary funds invested in index funds or portfolios that essentially emulate index funds. And yes, they just keep investing even during market down turns for the most part despite the amount of time they'll spend on trying to time the market in their managed funds.
The founders (2b+ net worth each) and early partners (mid 9 figure net worth) of my diversified PE shop only keep around a quarter of their investments in our funds and probably about 50% in public stocks and 25% in other investments. Most don't actively select their public portfolios either, they know what they are smart at and not to overstep.

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Re: How much money saved before you'd bounce from biglaw?

Post by notinbiglaw » Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:28 pm

Exactly. Focus on what you're good at and make money there. Scale if you can but if not, just put excess funds into passive investments.

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Re: How much money saved before you'd bounce from biglaw?

Post by bruinfan10 » Mon May 17, 2021 4:21 pm

I feel like people underestimate how hard it is to start from $0 net worth in a government, public interest, or other common post-biglaw job. That's the sad thing about law school debt - you kill yourself in biglaw to get back to zero, but then, if you live in a HCOL in particular, you're going to face a huge uphill assembling real assets even if you're frugal and even without the loan payment hanging over your head. At this point you're like 6-7 years out from when you started law school, putting away like $20-50k per year at around thirty years old. Ouch.

It was a rude awakening for me the first time I left biglaw. You're looking at years and years to build up assets that you could assemble in months on a biglaw salary. I ended up going back to biglaw after a year and a half on a gov salary.

For me, the number is probably 500k invested assets + 6 month emergency fund in cash to exit to a high-paying in house position where I think I could last indefinitely. 1 mil to leave law entirely.

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lolwutpar

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Re: How much money saved before you'd bounce from biglaw?

Post by lolwutpar » Mon May 17, 2021 5:07 pm

bruinfan10 wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 4:21 pm
I feel like people underestimate how hard it is to start from $0 net worth in a government, public interest, or other common post-biglaw job. That's the sad thing about law school debt - you kill yourself in biglaw to get back to zero, but then, if you live in a HCOL in particular, you're going to face a huge uphill assembling real assets even if you're frugal and even without the loan payment hanging over your head. At this point you're like 6-7 years out from when you started law school, putting away like $20-50k per year at around thirty years old. Ouch.

It was a rude awakening for me the first time I left biglaw. You're looking at years and years to build up assets that you could assemble in months on a biglaw salary. I ended up going back to biglaw after a year and a half on a gov salary.

For me, the number is probably 500k invested assets + 6 month emergency fund in cash to exit to a high-paying in house position where I think I could last indefinitely. 1 mil to leave law entirely.
Yeah, student loans, HCOL, wedding, house, etc. all sets you back. I just started *really* investing the past year - prior it was basically just maxing 401k + backdoor ROTH. So, sure, I'm in my early 30s and have a decent chunk of change invested now - but "only" like $250k. I feel like I'm behind (understanding that the vast majority of people are far behind me).

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Re: How much money saved before you'd bounce from biglaw?

Post by jotarokujo » Mon May 17, 2021 6:07 pm

spyke123 wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:36 am
I think, while mostly true, it is important put" equities will always go up long term" belief into some perspective. Historically, American equities appear to have greatly outperformed equities in other parts of the world - just look at the historical returns on FTSE and Hang Seng and you notice the difference. Maybe there are just fundamental differences among the markets but I dont think it is fair to just look at historical S&P 500 returns and assume equities will just keep going up because thats what equities do (unless the world collapses).
that's why most passive investors either go voo/vti+vxus or VT and call it a day?

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!


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