Top Law Schools

So I'm a baby 1L in the T14 and I'm very interested in BigLaw Tax. I'm also pretty wedded to Chicago. I've done some research into Chicago biglaw firms concerning their tax practices but I wanted to hear more from people in the industry. From what I've seen, Kirkland, Baker, McDermott, and Sidley all have strong tax practices but I don't know which are stronger, which are more stable, which provide better exit options, which are less leveraged, and which are utterly miserable. I might be missing good firms to consider down the line too. I intend to network hard in the spring semester, and I want to be strategic about it. Any insight would be deeply appreciated. Thank you.

Po$eidon wrote:So I'm a baby 1L in the T14 and I'm very interested in BigLaw Tax. I'm also pretty wedded to Chicago. I've done some research into Chicago biglaw firms concerning their tax practices but I wanted to hear more from people in the industry. From what I've seen, Kirkland, Baker, McDermott, and Sidley all have strong tax practices but I don't know which are stronger, which are more stable, which provide better exit options, which are less leveraged, and which are utterly miserable. I might be missing good firms to consider down the line too. I intend to network hard in the spring semester, and I want to be strategic about it. Any insight would be deeply appreciated. Thank you.

Tax at most of these firms are generally service oriented. Meaning that most of the partners and associates are supporting M&A and finance transactions. There are still a handful of big law attorneys that go to tax court, but the vast majority are working on corporate deals. So you're generally going to be working the same if not more hours than M&A associates. My tax colleagues found the work interesting, but they usually were swamped because they had to be on more deals because there are less tax associates than corporate associates. Most of the chicago big law firms will only take 1 new associate in tax a year, sometimes two. So if you really want tax, focus on the ones you mentioned plus Winston, Jones Day, Mayer, and Katten, but apply to every single big law firm. I'd let them know you're still open to corporate during OCI. I had a colleague who got placed in corporate but switched to tax after a year.

trebekismyhero wrote:

Po$eidon wrote:So I'm a baby 1L in the T14 and I'm very interested in BigLaw Tax. I'm also pretty wedded to Chicago. I've done some research into Chicago biglaw firms concerning their tax practices but I wanted to hear more from people in the industry. From what I've seen, Kirkland, Baker, McDermott, and Sidley all have strong tax practices but I don't know which are stronger, which are more stable, which provide better exit options, which are less leveraged, and which are utterly miserable. I might be missing good firms to consider down the line too. I intend to network hard in the spring semester, and I want to be strategic about it. Any insight would be deeply appreciated. Thank you.

Tax at most of these firms are generally service oriented. Meaning that most of the partners and associates are supporting M&A and finance transactions. There are still a handful of big law attorneys that go to tax court, but the vast majority are working on corporate deals. So you're generally going to be working the same if not more hours than M&A associates. My tax colleagues found the work interesting, but they usually were swamped because they had to be on more deals because there are less tax associates than corporate associates. Most of the chicago big law firms will only take 1 new associate in tax a year, sometimes two. So if you really want tax, focus on the ones you mentioned plus Winston, Jones Day, Mayer, and Katten, but apply to every single big law firm. I'd let them know you're still open to corporate during OCI. I had a colleague who got placed in corporate but switched to tax after a year.

Tax does bill the same hours as M&A, but one perk is that it tends to be a bit more stable. Rather than waiting around until 4:00PM and then working until 2AM, you are more likely to be able to start billing right at 9:00AM.

As far as choosing between those firms: Frankly, you probably won't get to choose even if you get an offer. Even firms with strong tax practices rarely take more than two or so tax associates per year. My old firm took one every other year. You will also likely get an SA offer without any guarantee you will end up in tax, though you can increase the chances of a tax offer by getting as friendly as possible with the tax folks while you are there. Make sure you click with the partners, as it's a practice area that really rewards good mentors, and you will likely get a lot more partner face time than most corporate associates.

Exit options won't be all that different between the firms named. Your personal networking will likely make a bigger difference for exit options than the specific firms.

Po$eidon wrote:So I'm a baby 1L in the T14 and I'm very interested in BigLaw Tax. I'm also pretty wedded to Chicago. I've done some research into Chicago biglaw firms concerning their tax practices but I wanted to hear more from people in the industry. From what I've seen, Kirkland, Baker, McDermott, and Sidley all have strong tax practices but I don't know which are stronger, which are more stable, which provide better exit options, which are less leveraged, and which are utterly miserable. I might be missing good firms to consider down the line too. I intend to network hard in the spring semester, and I want to be strategic about it. Any insight would be deeply appreciated. Thank you.

Skadden in Chicago has a very strong tax presence. Unlike the other offices you mentioned, Skadden Chicago's tax focus is not service-oriented and you will mostly be working on your own deals. The downside is the office specializes in REIT work, but if you like REIT work you will have good exit options and won't really be a specialist serving M&A people. I think it's just a question of whether you want to be focused more on M&A or REITs.

Anonymous User wrote:

Po$eidon wrote:So I'm a baby 1L in the T14 and I'm very interested in BigLaw Tax. I'm also pretty wedded to Chicago. I've done some research into Chicago biglaw firms concerning their tax practices but I wanted to hear more from people in the industry. From what I've seen, Kirkland, Baker, McDermott, and Sidley all have strong tax practices but I don't know which are stronger, which are more stable, which provide better exit options, which are less leveraged, and which are utterly miserable. I might be missing good firms to consider down the line too. I intend to network hard in the spring semester, and I want to be strategic about it. Any insight would be deeply appreciated. Thank you.

Skadden in Chicago has a very strong tax presence. Unlike the other offices you mentioned, Skadden Chicago's tax focus is not service-oriented and you will mostly be working on your own deals. The downside is the office specializes in REIT work, but if you like REIT work you will have good exit options and won't really be a specialist serving M&A people. I think it's just a question of whether you want to be focused more on M&A or REITs.

Current tax associate, but not at Skadden or in Chicago -- this to me doesn't really make sense. I do plenty of REIT work but there are still corporate components of any deal activity (although it may be the investment funds team or something instead of typical corporate). If you're talking about compliance, giving opinions,etc., that is way more specialized than M&A tax (and probably limits your in-house options to only REITs) and I think that most people have concerns about the significance of REITs going forward given a 21% corporate tax rate, particularly public REITs. Look at what's happening to MLP specialists. Separate and apart from that, most tax people have the opportunity to develop their own business regardless of the particular type of work they do. Skadden does have a strong Chicago tax presence, so it's probably a fine choice, I just don't understand the desire to not be M&A support.

unlicensedpotato wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Po$eidon wrote:So I'm a baby 1L in the T14 and I'm very interested in BigLaw Tax. I'm also pretty wedded to Chicago. I've done some research into Chicago biglaw firms concerning their tax practices but I wanted to hear more from people in the industry. From what I've seen, Kirkland, Baker, McDermott, and Sidley all have strong tax practices but I don't know which are stronger, which are more stable, which provide better exit options, which are less leveraged, and which are utterly miserable. I might be missing good firms to consider down the line too. I intend to network hard in the spring semester, and I want to be strategic about it. Any insight would be deeply appreciated. Thank you.

Skadden in Chicago has a very strong tax presence. Unlike the other offices you mentioned, Skadden Chicago's tax focus is not service-oriented and you will mostly be working on your own deals. The downside is the office specializes in REIT work, but if you like REIT work you will have good exit options and won't really be a specialist serving M&A people. I think it's just a question of whether you want to be focused more on M&A or REITs.

Current tax associate, but not at Skadden or in Chicago -- this to me doesn't really make sense. I do plenty of REIT work but there are still corporate components of any deal activity (although it may be the investment funds team or something instead of typical corporate). If you're talking about compliance, giving opinions,etc., that is way more specialized than M&A tax (and probably limits your in-house options to only REITs) and I think that most people have concerns about the significance of REITs going forward given a 21% corporate tax rate, particularly public REITs. Look at what's happening to MLP specialists. Separate and apart from that, most tax people have the opportunity to develop their own business regardless of the particular type of work they do. Skadden does have a strong Chicago tax presence, so it's probably a fine choice, I just don't understand the desire to not be M&A support.

I used to do a decent bit REIT work in my law firm days (a decent amount of compliance and opinions, but also some M&A and formations). Since the REIT rules are layered onto Subchapter C, it still gives you a reasonable corporate background, but I agree that REITs are somewhat out of favor given the recent tax law changes. Wasn't that long ago that every retailer wanted to get into an opco/propco structure with the propco structured as a REIT, but I think those days are mostly gone barring future changes. In any event, given that this is Skadden, I'm sure they have a reasonable pipeline of non-REIT work. These aren't things I'd get too hung up about as a 1L.

Thanks for all of the info! Good to hear that Skadden's tax department is strong in Chicago too. Are there any firms that I should perhaps have reservations about? In the end, I want a firm that will give me greater career flexibility whether that means staying there for the long haul, moving in house, or moving to another firm.

Po$eidon wrote:Thanks for all of the info! Good to hear that Skadden's tax department is strong in Chicago too. Are there any firms that I should perhaps have reservations about? In the end, I want a firm that will give me greater career flexibility whether that means staying there for the long haul, moving in house, or moving to another firm.

If you really want to be in tax you don't have the flexibility to say no to firms. But just do research on the firms and avoid/be prepared to talk about non-tax during OCI for firms that don't have much of a tax dept. Like I think Jenner has one tax person. So obviously they aren't going to be looking for junior tax support.

I'll reiterate here that getting tax is a bit of a "luck of the draw situation." When I went through the process, my biglaw firm was only taking one tax associate a year at most, and it had a Chambers-ranked tax practice.

I got offered tax solely because I pounded the pavement while in my summer tax rotation and made it clear that (1) I am genuinely interested in tax, and (2) I will literally do any type of assignment in the tax group. Don't have anything for me, but you want the commas checked in one of your documents? Sure thing boss. Need me to bluebook all of your citations? Sure thing boss. I'd head out at 7pm, and I'd ask "hey, I'm heading home to grab dinner, but is there anything you would like done tonight?" every single day before I left. In the morning, if I didn't have work, I'd do quick rounds, popping in and just going "hey, do you have anything that I could help you with?" If they said no, I'd say "alright, sorry to bother you, but let me know if you need my help," and I'd move on to the next office. Etc. I got a glowing review, was offered the gig, and I was constantly told how much I was preferred over the summer in the previous rotation who worked diligently but wasn't constantly taking the extra steps.

Now, what I did may have been a bit excessive, but it did the trick.

Forgive my ignorance but how is transactional tax not always going to involve supporting a deal team?

Thank you for share it...very useful.

glib wrote:Forgive my ignorance but how is transactional tax not always going to involve supporting a deal team?

You can be retained in the context of general tax advice or internal restructurings. For example, a company may be considering taking a position on its return but wants a formal opinion from outside counsel before doing so.

glib wrote:Forgive my ignorance but how is transactional tax not always going to involve supporting a deal team?

There are also State and Local Tax (SALT) groups that don't necessarily support a deal team. For example, my understanding is that Reed Smith (who has a fairly large SALT group) mostly do refund analysis to determine whether there was a significant over payment and thus a refund opportunity for the client. Although it's true that group might largely get their work from current Reed Smith clients, I don't think the SALT group is supporting a deal team the way other tax groups support the M&A or PE teams for example.

unlicensedpotato wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Po$eidon wrote:So I'm a baby 1L in the T14 and I'm very interested in BigLaw Tax. I'm also pretty wedded to Chicago. I've done some research into Chicago biglaw firms concerning their tax practices but I wanted to hear more from people in the industry. From what I've seen, Kirkland, Baker, McDermott, and Sidley all have strong tax practices but I don't know which are stronger, which are more stable, which provide better exit options, which are less leveraged, and which are utterly miserable. I might be missing good firms to consider down the line too. I intend to network hard in the spring semester, and I want to be strategic about it. Any insight would be deeply appreciated. Thank you.

Skadden in Chicago has a very strong tax presence. Unlike the other offices you mentioned, Skadden Chicago's tax focus is not service-oriented and you will mostly be working on your own deals. The downside is the office specializes in REIT work, but if you like REIT work you will have good exit options and won't really be a specialist serving M&A people. I think it's just a question of whether you want to be focused more on M&A or REITs.

Current tax associate, but not at Skadden or in Chicago -- this to me doesn't really make sense. I do plenty of REIT work but there are still corporate components of any deal activity (although it may be the investment funds team or something instead of typical corporate). If you're talking about compliance, giving opinions,etc., that is way more specialized than M&A tax (and probably limits your in-house options to only REITs) and I think that most people have concerns about the significance of REITs going forward given a 21% corporate tax rate, particularly public REITs. Look at what's happening to MLP specialists. Separate and apart from that, most tax people have the opportunity to develop their own business regardless of the particular type of work they do. Skadden does have a strong Chicago tax presence, so it's probably a fine choice, I just don't understand the desire to not be M&A support.

Skadden's M&A tax support comes from New York, not typically the Chicago office. That is what I was trying to convey.