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Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:24 am
by Anonymous User
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Thanks for the advice everyone, much appreciated.
Re: Talk from the HR -- should I leave?
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:53 am
by Person1111
Anonymous User wrote:As the year end is approaching, just wanted to get some thought on whether I should polish up my resume and seek to lateral, or whether it's okay to stay.
Recently I was given a "talk" by the partner overseeing the HR side of the firm for an informal complaint filed by a colleague. The gist was basically that I was too mean and that the colleague was overwhelmed (none of the sexual harassment or protected activity situation). This said partner is unassociated with the group I work for, and the complaining colleague appears to be being pushed out. The latter of which, I don't think HR knew.
On the work front, I have been getting consistent praise from the partners and senior associates, although I suspect the main partner I work for may have heard a few days ago, since his attitude is a little distant lately. Having said that, I'm still getting integral work to the team and the same complainant associate continues to lose work (which I am later asked to fix.)
There has been absolutely no follow up on this for over a month, presumably because the bonus season/review season is approaching, and the firm is pretty short staffed. I, on the other hand, feel unfairly mischaracterised and scapegoated, and frankly have little interest in staying unless this will blow over and/or my reputation is cleared. The only reason I am still here is because I get pretty excellent work and I enjoy my job other than the uncomfortable team dynamic.
Should I take this "talk" as a sign that the firm wants me to leave (or does not see long term value), or should I just forge on so long as I'm getting good work. Advice is much appreciated.
If this is the only time you got blowback about this incident, I would not worry about it. I certainly would not put any stock in vague suspicions that one partner is being "distant." That said, being mean to your colleagues is not a good look - even if deserved - and having a reputation for it is a serious problem.
Re: Talk from the HR -- should I leave?
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:59 am
by Anonymous User
hlsperson1111 wrote:Anonymous User wrote:As the year end is approaching, just wanted to get some thought on whether I should polish up my resume and seek to lateral, or whether it's okay to stay.
Recently I was given a "talk" by the partner overseeing the HR side of the firm for an informal complaint filed by a colleague. The gist was basically that I was too mean and that the colleague was overwhelmed (none of the sexual harassment or protected activity situation). This said partner is unassociated with the group I work for, and the complaining colleague appears to be being pushed out. The latter of which, I don't think HR knew.
On the work front, I have been getting consistent praise from the partners and senior associates, although I suspect the main partner I work for may have heard a few days ago, since his attitude is a little distant lately. Having said that, I'm still getting integral work to the team and the same complainant associate continues to lose work (which I am later asked to fix.)
There has been absolutely no follow up on this for over a month, presumably because the bonus season/review season is approaching, and the firm is pretty short staffed. I, on the other hand, feel unfairly mischaracterised and scapegoated, and frankly have little interest in staying unless this will blow over and/or my reputation is cleared. The only reason I am still here is because I get pretty excellent work and I enjoy my job other than the uncomfortable team dynamic.
Should I take this "talk" as a sign that the firm wants me to leave (or does not see long term value), or should I just forge on so long as I'm getting good work. Advice is much appreciated.
If this is the only time you got blowback about this incident, I would not worry about it. I certainly would not put any stock in vague suspicions that one partner is being "distant." That said, being mean to your colleagues is not a good look - even if deserved - and having a reputation for it is a serious problem.
To give better context, that same colleague apparently went to complain three times in a year, which is why this escalated to a "talk" it seems. Not sure if that changes the calculus.
Also based on the substance of the complaint, what I am most upset about is that the colleague in all honestly lied and omitted the context of the events. For example, it sounded like an advice was mischaracterised as harsh criticism and the complainant put words in my mouth, and the HR appeared to have made no effort to actually hear out my side of the story. They seemed to have just taken the complainant's word for it and blamed me for the incident.
Re: Talk from the HR -- should I leave?
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:03 am
by acr
hlsperson1111 wrote:Anonymous User wrote:As the year end is approaching, just wanted to get some thought on whether I should polish up my resume and seek to lateral, or whether it's okay to stay.
Recently I was given a "talk" by the partner overseeing the HR side of the firm for an informal complaint filed by a colleague. The gist was basically that I was too mean and that the colleague was overwhelmed (none of the sexual harassment or protected activity situation). This said partner is unassociated with the group I work for, and the complaining colleague appears to be being pushed out. The latter of which, I don't think HR knew.
On the work front, I have been getting consistent praise from the partners and senior associates, although I suspect the main partner I work for may have heard a few days ago, since his attitude is a little distant lately. Having said that, I'm still getting integral work to the team and the same complainant associate continues to lose work (which I am later asked to fix.)
There has been absolutely no follow up on this for over a month, presumably because the bonus season/review season is approaching, and the firm is pretty short staffed. I, on the other hand, feel unfairly mischaracterised and scapegoated, and frankly have little interest in staying unless this will blow over and/or my reputation is cleared. The only reason I am still here is because I get pretty excellent work and I enjoy my job other than the uncomfortable team dynamic.
Should I take this "talk" as a sign that the firm wants me to leave (or does not see long term value), or should I just forge on so long as I'm getting good work. Advice is much appreciated.
If this is the only time you got blowback about this incident, I would not worry about it. I certainly would not put any stock in vague suspicions that one partner is being "distant." That said, being mean to your colleagues is not a good look - even if deserved - and having a reputation for it is a serious problem.
This, and drop the self-absorbed microanalysis of everything going on in your firm while you're at it. Not everything that happens in the firm is about
you, and perhaps your boss is "distant" because, in the wake of the complaint, you're overanalyzing his/everyone else's behavior.
Re: Talk from the HR -- should I leave?
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:31 am
by jarofsoup
You should start looking. Who knows. You seem to be self talking how important you are to the firm but your an associate and expendable.
Re: Talk from the HR -- should I leave?
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:02 pm
by papermateflair
Did the partner who gave you the talk give you any indications about your standing? Like, did they otherwise sandwich it with praise or that you're doing well, or did they say that you need to do anything in particular (apologize, not have it happen again, be more careful with interactions, etc.)? You don't need to tell us, but if the partner just came in and said that someone had complained about how you made them cry without asking for your side, then that's different than 45 minutes of them reading through a complaint and giving you a list of things to fix (with an unstated but understood "or else"). In any case, people at your firm are on alert now for this type of behavior from you, so even if this one incident isn't getting you fired, ANYTHING less than professional behavior is going to get noticed. If you don't want to deal with that for the next few months, you may need or want to start over at another firm to clear the slate.
I know you've said that it was unfair, and that you didn't do whatever it was and your colleague lied/misstated the truth, but I would suggest that you take some accountability for what happened, even if you didn't set out to intentionally be mean or hurt this person. We don't get to choose how others react to us, but we DO get to choose how we interact with and how we treat others. Whatever happened clearly didn't accomplish what you wanted, even if you didn't do anything "wrong" - was it worth it? Consider what you could have done better, and next time you're in this situation, try to be more professional, collected, and kind.
Re: Talk from the HR -- should I leave?
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:58 pm
by LaLiLuLeLo
It bothers me tremendously you keep saying “the HR”
Re: Talk from the HR -- should I leave?
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:43 pm
by trebekismyhero
I would start looking and applying to be on the safe side since this is now known beyond just HR. Also, as papermate suggested, think back on how you handled the situation and what you can do better going forward.
Re: Talk from the HR -- should I leave?
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:21 pm
by Anonymous User
papermateflair wrote:Did the partner who gave you the talk give you any indications about your standing? Like, did they otherwise sandwich it with praise or that you're doing well, or did they say that you need to do anything in particular (apologize, not have it happen again, be more careful with interactions, etc.)? You don't need to tell us, but if the partner just came in and said that someone had complained about how you made them cry without asking for your side, then that's different than 45 minutes of them reading through a complaint and giving you a list of things to fix (with an unstated but understood "or else"). In any case, people at your firm are on alert now for this type of behavior from you, so even if this one incident isn't getting you fired, ANYTHING less than professional behavior is going to get noticed. If you don't want to deal with that for the next few months, you may need or want to start over at another firm to clear the slate.
I know you've said that it was unfair, and that you didn't do whatever it was and your colleague lied/misstated the truth, but I would suggest that you take some accountability for what happened, even if you didn't set out to intentionally be mean or hurt this person. We don't get to choose how others react to us, but we DO get to choose how we interact with and how we treat others. Whatever happened clearly didn't accomplish what you wanted, even if you didn't do anything "wrong" - was it worth it? Consider what you could have done better, and next time you're in this situation, try to be more professional, collected, and kind.
This is more accurate to what happened. Would that make it worse or better?
Re: Talk from the HR -- should I leave?
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:33 pm
by QContinuum
Anonymous User wrote:This is more accurate to what happened. Would that make it worse or better?
Worse, obviously, because it shows the partner wasn't interested in hearing your perspective. If I was in your shoes I'd start looking to lateral urgently.
I'm sorry this advice isn't more optimistic. The sad (and not always justified) truth of law firm life is that bad reputations, deservedly or not, are difficult to turn around.
Re: Talk from the HR -- should I leave?
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:41 pm
by nixy
I assumed better, because I read it as the partner telling you because they felt obligated to tell you, but not thinking it actually required action, vs. laying out guidelines you have to be sure to follow in the future or face consequences.
Re: Talk from the HR -- should I leave?
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:44 pm
by trebekismyhero
nixy wrote:I assumed better, because I read it as the partner telling you because they felt obligated to tell you, but not thinking it actually required action, vs. laying out guidelines you have to be sure to follow in the future or face consequences.
Yeah, that was my assumption as well, but either way I'd still get the resume ready and start at least applying so you are not caught flat footed if they push you out
Re: Talk from the HR -- should I leave?
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:47 pm
by Dahl
Is your colleague that complained another attorney, or support staff? Every firm is different, but at my old firm, the former would be more of a problem than the latter, and if that's the case I'd start looking. But you'd know your firm better.
Re: Talk from the HR -- should I leave?
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:36 pm
by papermateflair
trebekismyhero wrote:nixy wrote:I assumed better, because I read it as the partner telling you because they felt obligated to tell you, but not thinking it actually required action, vs. laying out guidelines you have to be sure to follow in the future or face consequences.
Yeah, that was my assumption as well, but either way I'd still get the resume ready and start at least applying so you are not caught flat footed if they push you out
Yes - that's what I meant ("You made someone cry and I'm obligated to tell you so HR gets off my back" vs "this is a serious error and we need you to fix it or else"), but I guess you could read it either way
Re: Talk from the HR -- should I leave?
Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:40 pm
by Anonymous User
I was on the giving end of this during an exit interview (basically noting that myself and most of the other juniors thought this person was horrible to work for due to screaming) when I was leaving my firm, the attorney was subsequently sat down by some partners and HR and has apparently changed their ways. They will likely hit equity partner next year, and I wish them nothing but the best if they stopped screaming.
Summary is if you are good, they will keep you around unless all juniors refuse to work with you. Also it takes a lot for someone to “tattle” whole still working at a firm so I would be very careful how you deal with juniors.
Re: Talk from the HR -- should I leave?
Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:13 pm
by notinbiglaw
I have both given and received such talks before and to be honest, I never really cared all that much about who’s at fault or if someone is just too fragile. It’s just a matter of doing good work while trying to maintain as many good relationships as possible.
Once you get a reputation for being mean, deserved or not, you better be a super star in your own work or you’re gonna just be that mean guy nobody wants to see promoted.
Re: Talk from the HR -- should I leave?
Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:10 am
by objctnyrhnr
People lateral for far weaker reasons than “everybody at my firm may think I’m an Ahole.”
Regardless of whether the situation is ultimately only ‘less than ideal,’ or alternatively very dire, I frankly just don’t see why you wouldn’t try to leave. Like literally why not?