What do regional biglaw/midlaw M&A and corporate practices look like? Forum

[Anonymous User]

General corporate/m&a second year associate at V10 firm and I’ve realized this life is not for me long term. Will be lateraling back to home market (think midwest/mountain west type market like Cleveland/Detroit or Denver/Phoenix) where there are a few biglaw shops but also a number midlaw transactional firms as well.

My question is what do corporate/m&a practices at those types of firms actually consist of work wise and lifestyle wise? Will it be better than my major market V10 or more of the same for less pay?

I don’t want to bill 2200-2400 a year (really anything over 2000 without doing so intentionally) and be on call 24/7 or generally put up with that lifestyle, but I would like to still do transactional/m&a focused work without the V10 stress/demands. Is this even achievable? Would a shift to VC/emerging companies work give me a better chance at this?

Also, thinking about going in-house if I can get it, but I’ve been cautioned that doing so before year 4-5 will limit me long term in my career.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance.

[Anonymous User]

I went to a secondary/tertiary market and do purely M&A/corporate work and the hours have honestly been worse. The people are better, and I go home at 6:30, but then I work all night and weekends and have been for the entire year. My first year I billed 2,000 despite taking the bar and this year i'm going to bill over 2,200. This profession is just miserable and even though I like my co-workers alot, I still feel like I'm completely wasting my life doing this shit.

Maybe its different at truly regional firms (i.e. not V100 firms), but if anything, M&A seems to be super hot right now for lower/middle-market because of low-interest rates and a good economy. FWIW, I'm literally on three deals that are closing in the next month and 5 deals that are just starting, all ranging from small private companies to large public M&A deals.

Additionally, at least in NYC I had massive teams of people that could come in and cover if you had vacation or were too swamped, but at smaller firms that run lean, good luck taking vacation. I've worked every vacation since starting a few years ago and it took me literally escaping into the mountains out west in order to get a week off with no one bothering me (and even then, I came back to emails asking me to help on things while I was out).

[Neff]

I'm at a smaller market that is tech-focused (Portland/Seattle/Austin) at a V50 doing M&A with a VC/emerging companies focus. I have had some miserably busy months but overall it is better than my last gig in a major market -- but not enough for me to want to keep doing this for much longer. Colleagues are nice, better outdoors, and I have recently lucked into some downtime. But busy or not, M&A beyond the first couple years of learning the ropes is just existentially meaningless. What I have learned in 4 years I could have learned in three months of reading PLC and precedents -- the rest is pointless repetition and grind. As a 4/5th year, I think I have picked up enough hybrid business/legal skills to be useful in another setting. So I am looking to get out regardless of my hours.

To more directly address your question, YMMV. Some shops in smaller markets are understaffed and awful, others are slower and more pleasant. You just have to do your diligence and try to ask people who have worked there.

[Neff]

I'm at a smaller market that is tech-focused (Portland/Seattle/Austin) at a V50 doing M&A with a VC/emerging companies focus. I have had some miserably busy months but overall it is better than my last gig in a major market -- but not enough for me to want to keep doing this for much longer. Colleagues are nice, better outdoors, and I have recently lucked into some downtime. But busy or not, M&A beyond the first couple years of learning the ropes is just existentially meaningless. What I have learned in 4 years I could have learned in three months of reading PLC and precedents -- the rest is pointless repetition and grind. As a 4/5th year, I think I have picked up enough hybrid business/legal skills to be useful in another setting. So I am looking to get out regardless of my hours.

To more directly address your question, YMMV. Some shops in smaller markets are understaffed and awful, others are slower and more pleasant. You just have to do your diligence and try to ask people who have worked there.

I would also add that you should not make the mistake of thinking that VC is better. You're working with entrepreneurs, it's way more hands-on. You're not dealing with Ivy-educated CFOs of large public companies, you're instead sometimes dealing with dickheads straight out of Silicon Valley on HBO. Hours can be brutal because deals are so leanly staffed so a single midlevel does 90% of the work by themselves. And you're often staffed on like five VC deals at once. And the deals are super cost sensitive because it turns out aforementioned dickheads don't have deep pockets. So, yeah, beware.

Don't worry about going in-house too early. If the opportunity is there, the pay is decent, and it feels right after due diligence, just take it. You CAN come back to a firm unlike what others say, and will often pick up valuable skillsets in-house.

[trebekismyhero]

I would also add that you should not make the mistake of thinking that VC is better. You're working with entrepreneurs, it's way more hands-on. You're not dealing with Ivy-educated CFOs of large public companies, you're instead sometimes dealing with dickheads straight out of Silicon Valley on HBO. Hours can be brutal because deals are so leanly staffed so a single midlevel does 90% of the work by themselves. And you're often staffed on like five VC deals at once. And the deals are super cost sensitive because it turns out aforementioned dickheads don't have deep pockets. So, yeah, beware.

Don't worry about going in-house too early. If the opportunity is there, the pay is decent, and it feels right after due diligence, just take it. You CAN come back to a firm unlike what others say, and will often pick up valuable skillsets in-house.

+1 to everything Neff said above. In law school, I took a VC class and loved it, thought it was fun/exciting. Did a couple VC deals and never wanted to do that again unless I was on the biz side. Also, exactly right about in-house. I learned more in a few months in-house than my first two years doing big law M&A. If I go back to a firm, I will be a better lawyer.

[nealric]

I would also add that you should not make the mistake of thinking that VC is better. You're working with entrepreneurs, it's way more hands-on. You're not dealing with Ivy-educated CFOs of large public companies, you're instead sometimes dealing with dickheads straight out of Silicon Valley on HBO. Hours can be brutal because deals are so leanly staffed so a single midlevel does 90% of the work by themselves. And you're often staffed on like five VC deals at once. And the deals are super cost sensitive because it turns out aforementioned dickheads don't have deep pockets. So, yeah, beware.

Don't worry about going in-house too early. If the opportunity is there, the pay is decent, and it feels right after due diligence, just take it. You CAN come back to a firm unlike what others say, and will often pick up valuable skillsets in-house.

+1 to everything Neff said above. In law school, I took a VC class and loved it, thought it was fun/exciting. Did a couple VC deals and never wanted to do that again unless I was on the biz side. Also, exactly right about in-house. I learned more in a few months in-house than my first two years doing big law M&A. If I go back to a firm, I will be a better lawyer.

I agree that there is no "too early" for the right in-house position. But I'd note that it can sometimes hard to get significant raises in large companies, and corporate HR departments tend to offer compensation based on your previous comp. So you are in a much better bargaining position making $305k as a 6th year than making $200k as a second year.

Also, you do learn a ton (because there's a lot less grunt work), but it's also often a different kind of learning. You don't have the benefit of submitting all your work product to a more senior attorney and receiving comments. That's liberating, but you do lose some learning/mentorship (although if you weren't working for good partners at your firm, you might not get much in biglaw either).