Top Law Schools

Anonymous User wrote:As the title suggests. I graduated in May from a t14 but am still jobless. I've been pretty broad in my applications and have gotten interviews, but seem to generally be beat out by those with slightly better experience/grades (or in one instance, bureaucracy that killed by chances at a biglaw job I would have otherwise had). I've been reaching out to alumni and other connections to try and grow my network as well. Any people here have any stories/advice that may be useful?

acr wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:As the title suggests. I graduated in May from a t14 but am still jobless. I've been pretty broad in my applications and have gotten interviews, but seem to generally be beat out by those with slightly better experience/grades (or in one instance, bureaucracy that killed by chances at a biglaw job I would have otherwise had). I've been reaching out to alumni and other connections to try and grow my network as well. Any people here have any stories/advice that may be useful?

It's good that you're getting interviews. Eventually someone will bite. Just keep sending out applications, treating the process like your 9-5 job. I'm sure you're doing that already. Stay in touch with your CSO; even if they send the occasional posting to you that can be a good start.

You're doing the right thing by applying broadly and expanding your network. Have you tried broadening your search geographically? Do you have a UBE score that you can transfer to jurisdictions around the country? Lots of unemployed lawyers have found their first job by applying in places like New Mexico, Idaho, etc.

I know that those locations aren't exactly ideal, and not everyone can just move across the country on a whim (family, loans, etc.) but time passes quickly and when you have a year or more experience under your belt, more opportunities will be available to you in more desirable markets. You might just even like it more than your classmates who are churning through documents in New York sweatshops.

The people who seem to struggle on the job search are the ones who limit themselves to only one or two competitive markets (e.g. Chicago, D.C., etc.).

Anonymous User wrote:

acr wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:As the title suggests. I graduated in May from a t14 but am still jobless. I've been pretty broad in my applications and have gotten interviews, but seem to generally be beat out by those with slightly better experience/grades (or in one instance, bureaucracy that killed by chances at a biglaw job I would have otherwise had). I've been reaching out to alumni and other connections to try and grow my network as well. Any people here have any stories/advice that may be useful?

It's good that you're getting interviews. Eventually someone will bite. Just keep sending out applications, treating the process like your 9-5 job. I'm sure you're doing that already. Stay in touch with your CSO; even if they send the occasional posting to you that can be a good start.

You're doing the right thing by applying broadly and expanding your network. Have you tried broadening your search geographically? Do you have a UBE score that you can transfer to jurisdictions around the country? Lots of unemployed lawyers have found their first job by applying in places like New Mexico, Idaho, etc.

I know that those locations aren't exactly ideal, and not everyone can just move across the country on a whim (family, loans, etc.) but time passes quickly and when you have a year or more experience under your belt, more opportunities will be available to you in more desirable markets. You might just even like it more than your classmates who are churning through documents in New York sweatshops.

The people who seem to struggle on the job search are the ones who limit themselves to only one or two competitive markets (e.g. Chicago, D.C., etc.).

It's hard to treat it as a 9-5 because I simply don't know where to look for jobs. I have been unable find that many postings for "Entry-Level Associate/Attorney", "Junior Associate/Attorney," etc. I would love to churn out applications but I'm not sure where to look besides for places like LinkedIn or Indeed. I have expanded my search to "JD Preferred" jobs though (such as compliance positions).

No UBE Score yet - waiting on my bar results.

Definitely open geographically, but limited to the northeast coast (DC/Virginia/Maryland to Stamford CT). I'm open to California and Chicago too, but for a few private reasons those are my geographic restrictions.

Anonymous User wrote:\
Definitely open geographically, but limited to the northeast coast (DC/Virginia/Maryland to Stamford CT). I'm open to California and Chicago too, but for a few private reasons those are my geographic restrictions.

andythefir wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:\
Definitely open geographically, but limited to the northeast coast (DC/Virginia/Maryland to Stamford CT). I'm open to California and Chicago too, but for a few private reasons those are my geographic restrictions.

Here’s your problem. I bet DC, California, and Chicago are 3 of the top 5 hardest markets to crack.Elite law schools all apply to the prestige jobs, local law schools supply all the other jobs. You could get a job today if you applied to much smaller markets. I also think it’s weird to apply to JD preferred jobs in the place you prefer because you won’t move to get the kind of job you went to law school to get.

JOThompson wrote:With a T14 degree, you will almost certainly find a job, if you're willing to apply to small law, mid-law, and local government jobs. It seems like staying in the northeast is reasonable if you're looking at less densely populated areas. If you're still not able to find a job, you should expand the geographic area. For example, there are rural prosecutor jobs that are always hiring (due to relatively high volume or aggressive prosecution policies), and far less academically qualified people than you have been hired into them.

I think a decent JD-preferred job will be difficult to find unless your undergrad or work experience directly relate to it. I'm almost seven years out of school and there aren't many JD-preferred jobs that are a good fit for me. Another risk of applying to a JD-preferred job now is that it could make it more difficult to return to law later. Legal employers will wonder if you didn't pass the bar or if you weren't interested in being an attorney.

Anonymous User wrote:

andythefir wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:\
Definitely open geographically, but limited to the northeast coast (DC/Virginia/Maryland to Stamford CT). I'm open to California and Chicago too, but for a few private reasons those are my geographic restrictions.

Here’s your problem. I bet DC, California, and Chicago are 3 of the top 5 hardest markets to crack.Elite law schools all apply to the prestige jobs, local law schools supply all the other jobs. You could get a job today if you applied to much smaller markets. I also think it’s weird to apply to JD preferred jobs in the place you prefer because you won’t move to get the kind of job you went to law school to get.

Well again, it's the entire northeast coast - not just the major cities in the country. Believe me I've been experiencing/have experienced how tough those markets are to crack and haven't been stingy in only sending out apps to those locations. I also know that a JD preferred job while not ideal, can give me the practical experience I need in the locations I prefer (and those who rely upon me prefer) and lead to an actual JD-required/attorney position eventually - at least that's my thought process/strategy. If aiming for corporate law, is that ill-advised?

I should also mention that I haven't been solely applying to corporate positions. Like I said, I've been applying to nearly everything I see on the northeast coast and a little bit beyond.

Npret wrote:I’m gong to ask questions to try to identify what may be going wrong:

What did you do during your summers at law school? Did you have big law, get no offered or strike out when interviewing? What happened there?

What were your grades?

Did you apply for any post-grad fellowships?

How are your interviewing skills? Have you worked on those?

How did “bureaucracy” kill your chance at a biglaw job?


My experience is that biglaw firms will have hired for their incoming class already either through summer jobs or 3L OCI. I’m thinking you're having issues because firms have hired so there are very few spots right now. You need connections.

A JD advantage job will do nothing to help you get into corporate law. Don’t go there yet.

Anonymous User wrote:

wrote: Slightly below median grades (pulled them up all throughout school). Struck out OCI. I had a bigfed internship that I continued on through the summer of my 2L.

I have applied for post grad fellowships, but admittedly not many. My interviewing skills seem to be good. After every interview I try and call up my interviewer(s) for feedback (when possible) and the usual answer is “we went with someone with slightly better grades/experience.” I have done plenty of mock interviews with career services and have honed in on areas for improvement as well.

On the bureaucracy: I interviewed with a biglaw firm that told me, right as I sat down for my first interview, that even if they end up loving me they may not be able to hire me (the firm was debating taking on new associates vs just pulling from a later summer class). That ended up being what happened (in confirmed later on).

Yeah, I definitely understand that most firms have done their hiring. It’s a fairly rigid system. Like other posters have suggested I’ve been looking outside major markets but it’s hard to find openings In the first place (making cold-emails seem like the only option left. Thoughts?). I have been trying to use my networks to find openings, but haven’t had much success.

I was recommended compliance positions by a biglaw attorney, which is why I’ve been pursuing them. Let’s say I get a compliance position at a major financial institution (like Goldman, JP Morgan, etc). You think that wouldn’t set me in a path to lateraling to corporate law eventually?

Here’s the problem with JD preferred work: you’ll never catch up. Let’s say you do 3 years JD preferred then apply to a real lawyer job. That same job will have applicants who are 1 people straight out of law school with the same grades/clerkships that they’re hiring now instead of you because they’d rather train that person themselves 2 people with 3 years of lawyer experience in Amarillo or Las Cruces and 3 you, who has neither the substantive experience of lawyering nor the profile of someone they like training.

andythefir wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

wrote: Slightly below median grades (pulled them up all throughout school). Struck out OCI. I had a bigfed internship that I continued on through the summer of my 2L.

I have applied for post grad fellowships, but admittedly not many. My interviewing skills seem to be good. After every interview I try and call up my interviewer(s) for feedback (when possible) and the usual answer is “we went with someone with slightly better grades/experience.” I have done plenty of mock interviews with career services and have honed in on areas for improvement as well.

On the bureaucracy: I interviewed with a biglaw firm that told me, right as I sat down for my first interview, that even if they end up loving me they may not be able to hire me (the firm was debating taking on new associates vs just pulling from a later summer class). That ended up being what happened (in confirmed later on).

Yeah, I definitely understand that most firms have done their hiring. It’s a fairly rigid system. Like other posters have suggested I’ve been looking outside major markets but it’s hard to find openings In the first place (making cold-emails seem like the only option left. Thoughts?). I have been trying to use my networks to find openings, but haven’t had much success.

I was recommended compliance positions by a biglaw attorney, which is why I’ve been pursuing them. Let’s say I get a compliance position at a major financial institution (like Goldman, JP Morgan, etc). You think that wouldn’t set me in a path to lateraling to corporate law eventually?

Here’s the problem with JD preferred work: you’ll never catch up. Let’s say you do 3 years JD preferred then apply to a real lawyer job. That same job will have applicants who are 1 people straight out of law school with the same grades/clerkships that they’re hiring now instead of you because they’d rather train that person themselves 2 people with 3 years of lawyer experience in Amarillo or Las Cruces and 3 you, who has neither the substantive experience of lawyering nor the profile of someone they like training.

Definitely agreed on the JD-preferred point. It's a dead end for the most part, especially that early on in a career. If someone had a few years of firm experience, went to a JD-preferred position for a couple years, they could probably get back into the legal market based mainly on their qualifications prior to the JD-preferred job. Still could be challenging depending on the needs of the market. That's one reason I have not made that jump yet. Of the JD-preferred options out there, compliance might keep more doors open but I still think it could be tough. If OP wants to get into biglaw, the chances are probably better now than in a few years, and I think the best option is expand the current geographic area.

andythefir wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:OP: Thanks for the advice you guys. If I wanted to find positions at these small-mid-big law firms in traditionally secondary markets and cities (Philly, Wilmington, and the like), is there any more efficient way to do so besides for cold emails to associates/partners/alumni at those firms, hoping there’s an opening? Particularly considering I don’t have my bar results yet. I have no problem going that route (I’ve already been doing it) but I want to ensure that there isn’t a “better way]

I’m not saying Philadelphia or Wilmington are your answer, I’m talking waaaaaay off the beaten path. I’m talking 3 hours from the nearest Trader Joe’s kinds of markets. I’m not saying those jobs are nice or fun, but they’ll give you crucial experience you can’t get in a JD preferred job. I hope you’re not in that position if you dont want to be, but it worked out for me.

Anonymous User wrote:Definitely open geographically, but limited to the northeast coast (DC/Virginia/Maryland to Stamford CT). I'm open to California and Chicago too, but for a few private reasons those are my geographic restrictions.