Partner Complaining About Hours Forum

[Anonymous User]

My firm sent out its annual hours for associates (pro-rated for the last day of September I guess) and I got an email from a partner about my low hours.

I haven’t been at this firm long, probably 5-6 months at this point.

I’m just a little shocked that the partner commented on my low hours when I’ve had to reach out to other practice groups to even have my hours end up at a low, but respectable number (it would’ve annualized at 1800) since my group as a whole has been slow. My practice group supplied me with only 44% of my hours this year. The other 56% I got through knocking on doors of other practice groups I heard were busy.

Is it time to lateral out of here? I had already been strongly considering leaving because I don’t think it’s a good fit (but was hoping to last a year). I didn’t have anything bad in my reviews. I honestly think it has more to do with the partner taking out his/her frustrations on me because of the group’s final hours even though I have almost no control over anything. From what I understand, the partners collect by practice group.

[acr]

More information needed.

What do you mean by "complaining?" Did he throw an angry tantrum and email you a harshly written 'warning' about your low hours, or was it more of a 'hey, your hours seem low, let's get those up'? Partners can really be a pain, and working for a bad partner is hell, but perhaps you're being too sensitive (depending on the content of the email).

At any rate, I would say the severity of this comes down to how miserable the partner can make your life at the firm. If he 'has it out for you' from now and beyond and is someone with a significant amount of power and authority in the firm (rather than just some random partner in a different practice group who you'll never interact with), then I would lean toward lateraling.

If this was a one-off instance that never comes up again and the partner seems to forget about it, and doesn't engage in anything 'petty', and your day-to-day is unaffected, then I would lean toward staying. If you're not happy at the firm in general, then stay for a while longer and consider lateral moves. Maybe a full year at the firm then look elsewhere.

Take comfort in the fact that you can make your own choices in life and never have to succumb to being disrespected by a mentally imbalanced partner behaving like a two year old on a day-to-day basis. Not saying that's what's happening here, but you always have the power to change your life for the better. You're not committed by blood oath to some law firm.

[papermateflair]

Do you have any mentors or any partners who are invested in your career at the new firm? When I was a newish lateral I had partners come and have a chat about hours before when mine were low (not really my fault, but there were certainly things I could have done to keep them up), but I felt like the partners wanted me to succeed but also wanted me to take some ownership for the situation (I was a mid-level). If that's the flavor of the chat you're having, or if you think the partner is just momentarily frustrated, then I would just make sure you're documenting *with the partner* how you're going about getting work, or what your availability is. If this is a partner you need to make sure is happy, and they're a reasonable person, maybe ask to sit down with them and discuss how you can work together to get on track.

Also, partners love to give advice/tell associates how to get better, and what they love even more is when they can show they've "fixed" a problem. One of the partners I work for loves that - after he gave me the chat, my hours went up (not because of anything I did really, but because all of the partners realized there was a problem at the same time and sent me work), and then he had the satisfaction of "fixing" the problem.

On the other hand - some other associates at my firm have had low hours and their "complaining" conversations with partners have been definitely more in the lines of "your hours are low, what is wrong with you, you need to fix it" and without mentors or partners invested in them, it's a bit of a different issue to tackle (associates can't generally create work at big law firms!). You should have a feel for whether your hours are a function of just getting up to speed in a slow practice group, or if there are troubles in the group generally that make lateraling a good idea. If you're not getting the amount/type of work you want, a quick jump to a new firm may be fine (especially if you were at your old place a while).

I don't think one cross word is a reason to jump ship - but if it's a sign of other problems, then maybe think about whether this firm is really a good fit.

[Anonymous User]

No mentors here. I actually don’t speak to the partners I work with unless they have work to give me (and we work a few hundred feet away from each other). They don’t care about my career development and it’s been made clear on numerous occasions. I was at a firm before where I was extremely close to the partners I worked with, so it’s weird being at a firm where no one could care less about my career development.

A partner came into my office earlier in the month and he said that being profitable is the most important thing and that’s why I need to bill X hours a month (to be on pace for 2000 hours). He said that after that my learning the area of law matters. But he stressed that I need to do anything I can to raise my hours.

I know this probably isn’t the worst reason to hate a firm, but it just is so annoying to be told I need to bill more when, already, the majority of my work is not from my practice group.

They know I’m doing BS work from other groups (think first-year work as a 3rd/4th year) and they don’t seem the least bit fazed that I won’t be “learning” more of the substantive area of my practice since I’m billing enough to not be completely worthless for the firm.

[papermateflair]

I would definitely look around then. You aren't going to be successful at a firm long term (if that's your goal - if it's just to get paid and get out in a couple of years, then do what you have to do) if the partners don't care about whether you're getting substantive work when you're a 3rd-4th year, and just see you as a money pump. Unless you want to try and move into the group that you're doing a bunch of work for, I would look at trying to make a quick jump. Assuming you lateralled after a couple of years at the old firm, I don't think it's a kiss of death to make a quick jump here as long as you can find a good fit where you can stay a bit after.

[gregfootball2001]

It seems like right now, you're just another face to these partners. I agree with the above posters suggesting you look around, as this firm does not seem invested in your future. However, in the meantime, consider trying to become a little more friendly with the partners. Invite them out for lunch (and get a firm calendar invite, not just a vague "sure"), go to events and mingle, whatever. Write a short article and ask one of the partners to be a co-author. Ask to help with pitches. Do something collaborative, so that it's a closer relationship. You've only been there 6 months, they don't know you, and you're probably not on their minds when work comes up. The lateraling process can take a really long time (if it works out at all), so do everything you can to make this work in the meantime.

[Anonymous User]

It seems like right now, you're just another face to these partners. I agree with the above posters suggesting you look around, as this firm does not seem invested in your future. However, in the meantime, consider trying to become a little more friendly with the partners. Invite them out for lunch (and get a firm calendar invite, not just a vague "sure"), go to events and mingle, whatever. Write a short article and ask one of the partners to be a co-author. Ask to help with pitches. Do something collaborative, so that it's a closer relationship. You've only been there 6 months, they don't know you, and you're probably not on their minds when work comes up. The lateraling process can take a really long time (if it works out at all), so do everything you can to make this work in the meantime.

I’m the only associate (there is a senior associate, but they are essentially an of counsel) in my group, so I hope I’d be on their minds when work comes up...

At the end of the day, I’m just used as overflow when they can’t handle the workload on their own. But since they are slow, and can handle all of the work clients send on their own, I have no work from them.

Obviously it would be nice to get to know them, but I’ve been here for almost half a year and I haven’t even spoken to half of the partners I work with in person. There was no initial effort to get me involved or anything and I probably should have been more proactive at the beginning.

I honestly don’t think this is salvageable at this point.

[Anonymous User]

Your story sounds eerily like my firm/group, and if that were the case (it's not, based on other things you've said), I'd tell you for a number of reasons that you're better off trying to lateral now. This advice would be different if you were only 1-2 months in, and stronger if you were 10-12 months in and feeling the same way.

[gregfootball2001]

It seems like right now, you're just another face to these partners. I agree with the above posters suggesting you look around, as this firm does not seem invested in your future. However, in the meantime, consider trying to become a little more friendly with the partners. Invite them out for lunch (and get a firm calendar invite, not just a vague "sure"), go to events and mingle, whatever. Write a short article and ask one of the partners to be a co-author. Ask to help with pitches. Do something collaborative, so that it's a closer relationship. You've only been there 6 months, they don't know you, and you're probably not on their minds when work comes up. The lateraling process can take a really long time (if it works out at all), so do everything you can to make this work in the meantime.

I’m the only associate (there is a senior associate, but they are essentially an of counsel) in my group, so I hope I’d be on their minds when work comes up...

At the end of the day, I’m just used as overflow when they can’t handle the workload on their own. But since they are slow, and can handle all of the work clients send on their own, I have no work from them.

Obviously it would be nice to get to know them, but I’ve been here for almost half a year and I haven’t even spoken to half of the partners I work with in person. There was no initial effort to get me involved or anything and I probably should have been more proactive at the beginning.

I honestly don’t think this is salvageable at this point.

Then, as I think the consensus is, try and lateral. The fact that there was no effort by the firm to get you involved sucks. But my point still stands. If you've been there for six months and one of your group partners, in your office, hasn't even spoken to you, that's their fault, but it's also your fault. Part of being a lawyer is the sales part of it, and you need to reach out your clients (your partners). Don't get me wrong, they should have reached out to you in the first place. But now that they haven't, you need to reach out to them. Stop by their office - "hey, I'm X, we haven't really gotten a chance to meet, I wanted to come by and introduce myself." And at the end of the conversation, ask again if they need help, and reiterate that you're available, even just scrubbing a document (or whatever you call searching for typos at your firm). I can't believe that there's not even scut work they can't unload on the only junior associate in the group - the stuff they don't want to do themselves (and I'm sure there's plenty of that). If there's truly no work, that's a different problem, and another reason to lateral.


You say the situation isn't salvageable, and maybe it isn't. But maybe it is. While you're looking for another job, you might as well try.

[Anonymous User]

Your story sounds eerily like my firm/group, and if that were the case (it's not, based on other things you've said), I'd tell you for a number of reasons that you're better off trying to lateral now. This advice would be different if you were only 1-2 months in, and stronger if you were 10-12 months in and feeling the same way.

How did you deal with it? Care to share some of the reasons? I’ve been looking to lateral / go in-house, but it’s been more difficult given the situation.

[Anonymous User]

It seems like right now, you're just another face to these partners. I agree with the above posters suggesting you look around, as this firm does not seem invested in your future. However, in the meantime, consider trying to become a little more friendly with the partners. Invite them out for lunch (and get a firm calendar invite, not just a vague "sure"), go to events and mingle, whatever. Write a short article and ask one of the partners to be a co-author. Ask to help with pitches. Do something collaborative, so that it's a closer relationship. You've only been there 6 months, they don't know you, and you're probably not on their minds when work comes up. The lateraling process can take a really long time (if it works out at all), so do everything you can to make this work in the meantime.

I’m the only associate (there is a senior associate, but they are essentially an of counsel) in my group, so I hope I’d be on their minds when work comes up...

At the end of the day, I’m just used as overflow when they can’t handle the workload on their own. But since they are slow, and can handle all of the work clients send on their own, I have no work from them.

Obviously it would be nice to get to know them, but I’ve been here for almost half a year and I haven’t even spoken to half of the partners I work with in person. There was no initial effort to get me involved or anything and I probably should have been more proactive at the beginning.

I honestly don’t think this is salvageable at this point.

Then, as I think the consensus is, try and lateral. The fact that there was no effort by the firm to get you involved sucks. But my point still stands. If you've been there for six months and one of your group partners, in your office, hasn't even spoken to you, that's their fault, but it's also your fault. Part of being a lawyer is the sales part of it, and you need to reach out your clients (your partners). Don't get me wrong, they should have reached out to you in the first place. But now that they haven't, you need to reach out to them. Stop by their office - "hey, I'm X, we haven't really gotten a chance to meet, I wanted to come by and introduce myself." And at the end of the conversation, ask again if they need help, and reiterate that you're available, even just scrubbing a document (or whatever you call searching for typos at your firm). I can't believe that there's not even scut work they can't unload on the only junior associate in the group - the stuff they don't want to do themselves (and I'm sure there's plenty of that). If there's truly no work, that's a different problem, and another reason to lateral.


You say the situation isn't salvageable, and maybe it isn't. But maybe it is. While you're looking for another job, you might as well try.

I totally agree that I’m partially at fault, too. I’m not trying to say I’m blameless in all of this. Apologies if it came off that way.

Also, I think I should add that I do reach out to the partners regularly asking if they need help with anything (1-2 times a week, usually Monday and Wed). A lot of them work remotely on a regular basis, so e-mail is usually the best way to reach them.

[Anonymous User]

I was in a similar position a few years ago. I lateraled to an office and group that, by the time I joined, had absolutely no need to a lateral. I was fighting for scraps below my experience level, not on pace for 2000+ hours, and generally in a miserable state.

I would avoid trying to lateral again until you really need to. Switching in under a year (more like two), immediately after an initial lateral, is going to throw up red flags for a lot of firms. Even if you get past the screen, there's a decent chance you'll face resistance from one or more individuals on the second round for whom jumping around too often is a hard dealbreaker. I tried to do something similar and only got offers from firms below where I wanted to be. I stuck around for a few more years and eventually did upgrade in firms, but it was tougher than it had to be because the more you unsuccessfully apply (and/or interview), the easier it becomes for a firm to reject you again. At least according to my recruiter, I'd taken a few firms out of the running by interviewing so soon in the past, even though theoretically their road block (concern over job movement) should've been alleviated by the fact that I'd stuck around at my firm for a while after the last interview.

Your #1 priority should be shoring up your spot at your current firm. That means rocking every assignment that comes across your desk, regularly asking for work, taking on non-billable work (business development, firm committee work, etc.), and trying to establish a social relationship with the partners who can see regularly. 1800 midlevel-rate hours means you're still very profitable for the firm, and though some of the more cutthroat firms might push someone out for being at that level, most will just pass you along with a mediocre review and no bonus. Do that for a year, maybe a year and a half, and then you can look at lateraling again or trying to find a good in-house opportunity.

If it becomes clear that they're actually trying to push you out, then yeah, start looking immediately. If there is a partner you trust who you can talk to, I'd seek their advice about where you actually stand. But, unless you're in a place like NYC (really, just NYC) where the biglaw firms are innumerable, I'd advise against sending out your resume en masse unless you really need it.