Top Law Schools

Greetings! 2017 JD grad and law clerk here. After much internal wrangling and soul-searching, I've settled on the idea of doing law librarianship as a career, preferably academic though I'm open to the possibility of working at government/courthouse law libraries. I hope to apply to MLIS programs pretty shortly. I have several questions for those in the know:

1. Does ranking of MLIS program matter in terms of hiring? I realize that U of Washington is the #1 program in law librarianship, but it's not online and I'm not in a position in my life where I can uproot myself and move across the country. Also, I would not get cheap in-state tuition. I could get instate in my state (on the east coast), enroll part-time, and then instead of taking out loans, simply pay as I go while I'm in full-time employment.
2. Does school rank and class rank/grades of the JD program matter in hiring?
3. Would my clerking experience be helpful given that it's so heavily legal research-oriented?
4. Is it worth it to pay $ for memberships to professional organizations such as ALA, SLA, AALL as a student?
5. How is the hiring outlook in general? Growing or contracting field?
6. What are entry-level salaries like in academic law librarianship? (I can't access the AALL Salary Survey because they make non-members pay $250 for it ) Are they typically tenure-track?
7. How are benefits (insurance, PTO, etc.), hours, and quality of life?

Another question: would tackling the bar be worth it given that these positions don't involve the practice of law?

My understanding is that it's a contracting field and hiring prospects are generally dim. Solid programming skills can give you a leg up. I would really think twice before going into this. There are few jobs and many more people chasing them. You should talk to younger law librarians as well as folks who have been at it for some time.

BlackAndOrange84 wrote:My understanding is that it's a contracting field and hiring prospects are generally dim. Solid programming skills can give you a leg up. I would really think twice before going into this. There are few jobs and many more people chasing them. You should talk to younger law librarians as well as folks who have been at it for some time.

Ahh I see. Thanks for the reality check. Are you a law librarian?

I'm not really sure what other options I have which are decent in terms of pay/benefits as well as the quality of life. I don't think law licensure is in the stars for me.

It’s definitely shrinking. Sure, law schools will still have them, but firms are getting rid of their staff librarians and just contracting out to a company that has a “pool” of librarians. So, the days of each decently sized law office having a librarian on site are gone, which greatly contributes to the shrinking demand.

1) less than it matters for law school. I’ve seen a ton of U Washington grads in law school libraries but I don’t think there’s the same ranking obsession.

2) I don’t think it will be dispositive at all, but I’m sure some people may care. That you have a JD will probably be sufficient but I’m sure rank/grades could matter on the margins if a committee is trying to decide between otherwise comparable candidates. Nothing you can do about those things now, though.

3) maybe somewhat, if you end up helping users of the library, but there are lots and lots of other functions librarians fulfill (cataloguing, archive stuff, circulation, other admin) where it will be less pertinent, so any boost in hiring will depend.

4) don’t know, but I suspect not, except for access to job-related stuff. Getting involved with the local branches of such groups (if there are any near you) could be helpful but I suspect they might have student discounts at least? Like going to local association conferences will be a good way to meet local practitioners, that kind of thing.

5) agreed with all the above about it being a shrinking field. Also library jobs generally are hard to get, and while there are lots of people with the MLIS who don’t have a JD and therefore won’t be as competitive for law library jobs, it’s a small-ish field. It’s probably not like getting a federal COA clerkship competitive, but getting a job will require work/hustle. I second talking to recently hired librarians.

6) this a guess based on entry level librarian salaries generally, but I’d guess $50-60k, depending on the institution/location. I don’t know if law librarians specifically do any better with the second advanced degree, but I don’t have any info that they do. You can do some research by looking up salaries for public universities - they usually have to make that info publicly available, so you can google for some specific state schools and search for librarian salaries in their law schools. It’s not a very high paying field generally, though.

6a) whether librarians are tenure track, and what the requirements are for tenure/promotion, varies a lot by school. Some schools put them on a tenure track, while others treat them like staff. There are pros and cons to both approaches.

7) at most institutions of higher ed, insurance and benefits are good. You may need to work there for a couple of years before you can vest in their retirement plans, but likely the institution will match, for ex., 401k contributions up to a certain point. Hours may include nights/weekends especially during exam periods if you’re in a customer-facing job, but otherwise it’s likely to be 8:30 to 5 M-F or similar. PTO is also variable - a lot of places will be very flexible, some places will be stricter. You can often look up some of these things in staff handbooks on university HR websites. There’s likely to be little to no weekend/after hours work unless specifically arranged - work will primarily be done at work during your set work hours (like many many jobs out there that are not law practice). Quality of life depends very much on the specific job - as a profession it’s not crazy like law is, but there are still bad jobs that can make you unhappy.

I don’t think taking the bar would make any difference, unless there’s any kind of bar prep support that the library gives students that they’d want you to contribute to.

(I have a lot of friends who are librarians so the above comes from my second-hand understanding of the field, though none are themselves law librarians.)

LaLiLuLeLo wrote:It’s definitely shrinking. Sure, law schools will still have them, but firms are getting rid of their staff librarians and just contracting out to a company that has a “pool” of librarians. So, the days of each decently sized law office having a librarian on site are gone, which greatly contributes to the shrinking demand.

Ahh got it. My top choice among the specialties is academic law librarianship.

Bodhicaryavatara wrote:

LaLiLuLeLo wrote:It’s definitely shrinking. Sure, law schools will still have them, but firms are getting rid of their staff librarians and just contracting out to a company that has a “pool” of librarians. So, the days of each decently sized law office having a librarian on site are gone, which greatly contributes to the shrinking demand.

Ahh got it. My top choice among the specialties is academic law librarianship.

While I don’t have firsthand knowledge, I have repeatedly read that the difficulty to attain such a position is on par with (if not worse than) becoming a law school professor (full prof, not adjunct teaching a night class or two). Which is already incredibly difficult.

Bodhicaryavatara wrote:

LaLiLuLeLo wrote:It’s definitely shrinking. Sure, law schools will still have them, but firms are getting rid of their staff librarians and just contracting out to a company that has a “pool” of librarians. So, the days of each decently sized law office having a librarian on site are gone, which greatly contributes to the shrinking demand.

Ahh got it. My top choice among the specialties is academic law librarianship.

Fewer librarian jobs in total means greater competition for any that remain.

Halp wrote:

Bodhicaryavatara wrote:

LaLiLuLeLo wrote:It’s definitely shrinking. Sure, law schools will still have them, but firms are getting rid of their staff librarians and just contracting out to a company that has a “pool” of librarians. So, the days of each decently sized law office having a librarian on site are gone, which greatly contributes to the shrinking demand.

Ahh got it. My top choice among the specialties is academic law librarianship.

While I don’t have firsthand knowledge, I have repeatedly read that the difficulty to attain such a position is on par with (if not worse than) becoming a law school professor (full prof, not adjunct teaching a night class or two). Which is already incredibly difficult.

So JD grades/Law Review are really important for Law Librarian positions, as they are for law prof hiring?

nixy wrote:1) less than it matters for law school. I’ve seen a ton of U Washington grads in law school libraries but I don’t think there’s the same ranking obsession.

2) I don’t think it will be dispositive at all, but I’m sure some people may care. That you have a JD will probably be sufficient but I’m sure rank/grades could matter on the margins if a committee is trying to decide between otherwise comparable candidates. Nothing you can do about those things now, though.

3) maybe somewhat, if you end up helping users of the library, but there are lots and lots of other functions librarians fulfill (cataloguing, archive stuff, circulation, other admin) where it will be less pertinent, so any boost in hiring will depend.

4) don’t know, but I suspect not, except for access to job-related stuff. Getting involved with the local branches of such groups (if there are any near you) could be helpful but I suspect they might have student discounts at least? Like going to local association conferences will be a good way to meet local practitioners, that kind of thing.

5) agreed with all the above about it being a shrinking field. Also library jobs generally are hard to get, and while there are lots of people with the MLIS who don’t have a JD and therefore won’t be as competitive for law library jobs, it’s a small-ish field. It’s probably not like getting a federal COA clerkship competitive, but getting a job will require work/hustle. I second talking to recently hired librarians.

6) this a guess based on entry level librarian salaries generally, but I’d guess $50-60k, depending on the institution/location. I don’t know if law librarians specifically do any better with the second advanced degree, but I don’t have any info that they do. You can do some research by looking up salaries for public universities - they usually have to make that info publicly available, so you can google for some specific state schools and search for librarian salaries in their law schools. It’s not a very high paying field generally, though.

6a) whether librarians are tenure track, and what the requirements are for tenure/promotion, varies a lot by school. Some schools put them on a tenure track, while others treat them like staff. There are pros and cons to both approaches.

7) at most institutions of higher ed, insurance and benefits are good. You may need to work there for a couple of years before you can vest in their retirement plans, but likely the institution will match, for ex., 401k contributions up to a certain point. Hours may include nights/weekends especially during exam periods if you’re in a customer-facing job, but otherwise it’s likely to be 8:30 to 5 M-F or similar. PTO is also variable - a lot of places will be very flexible, some places will be stricter. You can often look up some of these things in staff handbooks on university HR websites. There’s likely to be little to no weekend/after hours work unless specifically arranged - work will primarily be done at work during your set work hours (like many many jobs out there that are not law practice). Quality of life depends very much on the specific job - as a profession it’s not crazy like law is, but there are still bad jobs that can make you unhappy.

I don’t think taking the bar would make any difference, unless there’s any kind of bar prep support that the library gives students that they’d want you to contribute to.

(I have a lot of friends who are librarians so the above comes from my second-hand understanding of the field, though none are themselves law librarians.)

Thank you, this is super helpful. Nice to know that the field is not super rank/grades-conscious.

Given that employers emphasize real-world experience and connections above all, would it be helpful for MLIS admissions/my professional advancement in general to get some volunteer experience on the side at a library during this year, since I would be entering in fall 2020? I took a few advanced legal research courses during my JD program taught by Law Librarians and worked at a public library way back in high school, so my practical experience with the librarianship field is pretty limited.

Bodhicaryavatara wrote:Given that employers emphasize real-world experience and connections above all, would it be helpful for MLIS admissions/my professional advancement in general to get some volunteer experience on the side at a library during this year, since I would be entering in fall 2020? I took a few advanced legal research courses during my JD program taught by Law Librarians and worked at a public library way back in high school, so my practical experience with the librarianship field is pretty limited.

Didn't mean to suggest that the bolded is exactly true (like I never said that performance in the MLIS program itself was less important than real-world experience/connections), but yeah, volunteering would probably help you to show some commitment and get some experience in the field. I'm not sure that you'd be able to volunteer for anything that would really be useful experience for what you'd do as an actual law librarian, though, since all those things require having an MLIS to do, and volunteering at a public library is not really at all the same as working in an academic library as a law librarian. But it's certainly not going to hurt you. Your time might be better spent talking to law librarians about what they do and how to get into the field, though.

nixy wrote:

Bodhicaryavatara wrote:Given that employers emphasize real-world experience and connections above all, would it be helpful for MLIS admissions/my professional advancement in general to get some volunteer experience on the side at a library during this year, since I would be entering in fall 2020? I took a few advanced legal research courses during my JD program taught by Law Librarians and worked at a public library way back in high school, so my practical experience with the librarianship field is pretty limited.

But it's certainly not going to hurt you. Your time might be better spent talking to law librarians about what they do and how to get into the field, though.

Got it! Yes, I signed up for a free student membership at local law librarian associations so hopefully the networking will help me break into the field.