Need help picking a firm! Forum

[Anonymous User]

I got offers at:
Jones Day (Dallas)
HAK (Dallas)
V&E (Dallas)
Locke Lord (Dallas)
Kirkland (Dallas)
TK (Dallas)

Transactional through and through.

Does anyone have any suggestions? Not sure if partner track is for me, but I'd be open to it. I might want to lateral in-house (Dallas, hopefully) down the road.

[Anonymous User]

I got offers at:
Jones Day (Dallas)
HAK (Dallas)
V&E (Dallas)
Locke Lord (Dallas)
Kirkland (Dallas)
TK (Dallas)

Transactional through and through.

Does anyone have any suggestions? Not sure if partner track is for me, but I'd be open to it. I might want to lateral in-house (Dallas, hopefully) down the road.

All good firms. Quick thoughts:
-LL has a very small Corp group in Dallas and they've been slow for years
-HAK is also a small group and doesn't usually get candidates that have offers at the other places you listed

As for the other four, it sort of comes down to fit and what you want from a firm. V&E is the top name in the state, but making partner is notoriously difficult (especially in Dallas). Jones Day has good institutional clients but pay is the lowest of the four, and they have been shrinking in Dallas over the last decade (with very mixed reports on culture). Kirkland is a great firm with top work, and you hear good things about the Dallas culture, but it is so new that it is a question mark, and you hear rumors that the partners that launched the office have not brought in near as much work as expected. TK is the top Dallas-based shop and has a good culture, but they will never have access to the quantity and quality of deals as a KE or VE would, so the play here is if you want to have a shot at making partner while still working on sophisticated deals.

[Anonymous User]

OP Here. So presume I make it down to V&E vs. Kirkland, with TK as a close third. Would you go for V&E or Kirkland in my situation? It's tough to take the risk of a new office like Kirkland (but it IS Kirkland, after all). V&E is obviously a top choice as well, but the office is so much larger (120+ attorneys vs. 35+ at Kirkland). Not sure how much of a plus it is, but would the exit opportunities at Kirkland be similar to V&E? What about marginally better? I summered at another firm and saw how partners and associates would "establish" a lawyer's competency by referring to (1) their law school and (2) their "firm".

I'm really struggling to decide between those two (and maybe TK), since I've liked everyone I've met so far at each firm, but I also realize that the people you meet/interview with are selected for a reason.

[Anonymous User]

OP Here. So presume I make it down to V&E vs. Kirkland, with TK as a close third. Would you go for V&E or Kirkland in my situation? It's tough to take the risk of a new office like Kirkland (but it IS Kirkland, after all). V&E is obviously a top choice as well, but the office is so much larger (120+ attorneys vs. 35+ at Kirkland). Not sure how much of a plus it is, but would the exit opportunities at Kirkland be similar to V&E? What about marginally better? I summered at another firm and saw how partners and associates would "establish" a lawyer's competency by referring to (1) their law school and (2) their "firm".

I'm really struggling to decide between those two (and maybe TK), since I've liked everyone I've met so far at each firm, but I also realize that the people you meet/interview with are selected for a reason.

I personally would be choosing between TK and VE. And leaning TK. If I wanted to be in Houston, I would be going with VE all the way, but VE Dallas is a totally different animal with more attrition, less power and an awkward culture (but obviously still the great name). VE Houston couldn’t really give two sh!ts about the Dallas office, which is why it is very difficult to make partner there. KE is obviously a great firm, but how can they possibly justify having a 15 person first year class in 2020 when they have 35 lawyers right now and everything we’re hearing in the market is that the associates are generally slowish? There’s no way the five equity partners in Dallas at KE now can support a 50 person office, and I suspect at least 1-2 of those partners would be de-equitized or have left by the time you start.

Exit opps from each of these firms (and others) will be quite similar in Dallas.

[Anonymous User]

I would go with Kirkland if you want to go in house after 3-5 years. Exit ops will be the same as other firms in town and pay will be at least as good as top firms in town if not slightly higher. Plus the culture is way better than VE Dallas. If you want to make partner, or have a shot at making partner, go to TK. They pay Cravath base (unlike a lot of the other Texas-based firms that aren’t VE/BB), but a full Cravath bonus will be tough to get unless you bill a ton. Still good money though.

[TXBigLaw93]

The TK fanboying in this poll and thread is insane. TK doesn’t approach the level of VE and KE.

TK possibly isn’t even “the top Dallas-based shop” - Haynes & Boone may have something to say about that.

You have two options that stand far above the rest OP: VE and KE. Pick one based on culture fit and disregard the rest. You’ll be exposed to great work and have great in-house opportunities from both.

[fightingfrog22]

If I were in your position, I would probably go with Kirkland. Sounds like you'd have the best potential exit options if you decide that is what you want. Also, it seems like their take as much as you can get free market system would match with your work style seeing that you were able to collect 6 offers during what seems to be a pretty tough OCI season.

Side note, it seems like your previous post you've narrowed it down to 2-3 firms. I'd like to add a nice reminder to remember for the sake of everyone involved to let the firms that you are not seriously considering know as soon as possible so others can find out. Congrats on all the offers, there's no bad decision you can make with these options.

[TXBigLaw93]

Do not go to TK over your other choices.... go to V&E.

(Full disclosure: I’ve posted before in this thread)

Main point here: Don’t touch TK.

TK associates are clearly stuffing this poll. Don’t trust it. TK is a half step up from Jackson Walker and Winstead. Nobody in the scene thinks of them as a top Dallas transactional shop.

You can’t go wrong with either VE or KE. VE may have some more stability (at the expense of being nearly a pure satellite office) while KE may be more lively (at the expense of some potential uncertainty in the next few years).

[Anonymous User]

The TK fanboying in this poll and thread is insane. TK doesn’t approach the level of VE and KE.

TK possibly isn’t even “the top Dallas-based shop” - Haynes & Boone may have something to say about that.

You have two options that stand far above the rest OP: VE and KE. Pick one based on culture fit and disregard the rest. You’ll be exposed to great work and have great in-house opportunities from both.

As someone who voted TK, I would 100% agree that KE and VE have significantly more deal flow and more sophisticated deals on average. I disagree that in house options will be materially different (assuming you want to stay in Dallas) from any of those firms (or about 10 other firms in town) - as someone who has looked in house and compared notes with dozens of friends looking to go in house from a variety of firms, there just aren’t that many great in house options for mid level associates in Dallas and for in house, if you worked anywhere in biglaw then you’ve checked that box and they care more about fit at that point. The comp differences are potentially meaningful between these three firms, though. If OP is nearly certain that they want to go in house, I would go with Kirkland - better office culture than VE, better pay, better situated for a downturn in that KE has so much restructuring work (though KE’s extreme leverage in Dallas would have to be slightly concerning wrt a downturn). I just don’t see a reason to go to VE Dallas if KE is on the table. The reason to go to TK is if you want a better quality of life (though from anecdotal experience, KE Dallas sounds like it also has a very nice QOL for biglaw) and more realistic partnership chances - if those aren’t top priorities for the near term, go to KE and reevaluate after a few years if necessary - the KE brand is strong and you will have plenty of opportunities at other firms (assuming the lateral market has heated back up at that point) or in house.

[hlslonghorn]

Do not go to TK over your other choices.... go to V&E.

(Full disclosure: I’ve posted before in this thread)

Main point here: Don’t touch TK.

TK associates are clearly stuffing this poll. Don’t trust it. TK is a half step up from Jackson Walker and Winstead. Nobody in the scene thinks of them as a top Dallas transactional shop.

You can’t go wrong with either VE or KE. VE may have some more stability (at the expense of being nearly a pure satellite office) while KE may be more lively (at the expense of some potential uncertainty in the next few years).

As opposed to the impartial and better-informed voters who voted for KE and VE? None of these polls are particularly informative - they're mostly just a measure of which firms have more associates browsing these forums. The comments here are only slightly better than the polls, but I would suggest OP reach out to associates in Dallas who don't work at KE, VE or TK and get their view.

You seem to have a personal animosity towards TK, which is fine, but if "nobody in the scene thinks of them as a top Dallas transactional shop," why did KE try so hard to poach some of their top partners?

[unknown12]

In answering your question, I would personally choose Kirkland & Ellis.

Side note and follow up question for OP: If you can answer this, how long between the flyback and offer at LL? Also, how long did they give you for being able to hold on the offer?