Jumped from BigFed to Biglaw AMA Forum

[Anonymous User]

Pretty much what the title says, clerked then went fed and now private sector. Shoot.

[Anonymous User]

Currently weighing applying to some honors programs v. firm. What are your thoughts on overall career trajectory for those who start in gov. Certain DOJ components, SEC, FTC, etc., seem very interesting for white collar enforcement. Trying to balance early experience v. opportunity for advancement, and where it all kind of leads. I think I would def like to do a stint in gov, but don't really see myself as a 30 year trial attorney/lifer. Relatedly, what are your thoughts on how competitive it is to advance to management positions?

[Anonymous User]

I think starting in gov can be a good launching point in certain areas, like white collar/compliance/investigations, government contracts, criminal defense, food/drug, etc. These areas and ones like them work well to set you up to move to the private sector because you get to litigate and work on substantive projects sooner but they are also broad enough that the bans won’t prohibit you from using those skills once you switch sides. Practice areas that are only practiced before the agency you’re considering can be harder, due to the bans. Also for anyone considering in law school considering the government -> private track to make sure you select an area that is in high demand in the private sector rather than some of the areas that biglaw has little demand for.

In terms of trajectory, if you start in gov I recommend transitioning out around year 3-4. By then you’ve gotten a good bit of substantive experience but you aren’t so senior that you are too expensive (because you’re not bringing new business with you.)

As to the management question, it varies wildly from agency to agency. My agency’s OGC was fairly flat - line attorneys, one supervisor per practice area, and then the DGC/GC. That meant advancement was rare, simply because it wasn’t hierarchical enough for there to be many supervisory slots. I have a better chance at making partner than I had at becoming a supervisor in my last job, and I’m not exaggerating. Other agencies are Extremely hierarchical and will have more opportunities. Bear in mind though that, other than the Big Boss types you’ll still cap out at GS-15. I would also add that even if you are at an agency that has a flat OGC like mine was, being in gov (and specifically in DOJ) does help make it easier to move around with DOJ.

Keep ‘em comin.

[Anonymous User]

How many years were you in fed and how many years have you been in private? Do you miss the work life balance and no stress of making billable hours? What was the hardest adjustment when it came to the business side of things? Do you plan to go back to fed, ie revolving door?

I also started as a fed going on in year number 3 in a pretty hot field (really just this administration). Most of my colleagues, just like other agencies, came from private sector and I really got lucky + a combination of networking hustle.

[Anonymous User]

I spent four years in gov and I’ve been at my firm a few months now. I am at a decent firm, so my work-life balance has changed a bit (in that I work from home when my wife and kid go to bed), but it’s not a crazy drastic difference. And honestly the additional hours I have to put in are an okay exchange, for me, for the added stress during the workday I experienced at my old job (due to severe shortage of staff/attorneys overall and in my practice group/administration-caused issues). The money helps, too.

I can’t say I enjoy having to track my life in six minute increments, but I am on track to hit my hours. I’m in a practice area with plenty of work to do, so I don’t have major concerns about staying on pace atm.

The hardest thing so far is learning client development. Client management I’m fine at, but in gov I had a captive client base and was prohibited from seeking more. Not so in private sector land. And, as a mid level, it is a skill set I need to work on.

Right now I’m happy where I am at, and I don’t particularly intend to return to gov, but I am leaving the possibility open down the line. We will see how I feel in a few years.

[Anonymous User]

Previous anon. OP, if the goal is to make partner at a firm, what are your thoughts on making the jump to a firm after 3-4 year as an associate v. holding out for 10-15 years with the hope of being hired in as a partner or of counsel? Especially interested in the fed areas that traditonally correspond with biglaw practice groups, like fraud, securities, antitrust, FCPA, civil appellate, mass torts, etc.

[soft blue]

What associate-year are you? (i.e. did you take a year cut)

Are you at a firm where gov't hires are common?

Were you hired for specific regulatory expertise or because you had great lit/project experience?

[Anonymous User]

Previous anon. OP, if the goal is to make partner at a firm, what are your thoughts on making the jump to a firm after 3-4 year as an associate v. holding out for 10-15 years with the hope of being hired in as a partner or of counsel? Especially interested in the fed areas that traditonally correspond with biglaw practice groups, like fraud, securities, antitrust, FCPA, civil appellate, mass torts, etc.

I think it’s theoretically possible if you made it high enough in your Department for your name and title alone to draw in business. Otherwise, the longer you wait the harder it will be unless you’re willing to take a big hit in class year because you won’t have a portable book of business of any kind to justify the expense of bringing in a new of counsel or partner. So if you were one of the United States Attorneys, maybe that fact and your name are enough. But if you’re an 8th-year IRS line attorney there’s no benefit to taking you over an 8th year lateral from another firm because they might bring some clients with them.

[Anonymous User]

What associate-year are you? (i.e. did you take a year cut)

Are you at a firm where gov't hires are common?

Were you hired for specific regulatory expertise or because you had great lit/project experience?

I didn’t take a year cut, which surprised me. I expected to, between the clerkship and my gov time. My firm hires a lot of folks out of government for its DC office, either people who are using the revolving door or mid-levels like me who can work their way up. But the DC office has a lot of practice groups that specialize in regulatory or niche gov litigation areas, in the rest of the firm it’s less common. I think I was an attractive hire because I work in an area that is both regulatorily dense but also includes a lot of litigation (think international trade, government contracts, tax). So I had good knowledge of our weird area of the law world, but because I’d come from gov I had 20+ cases I’d litigated as first chair.

[Anonymous User]

Why did you make the jump and what do you miss most about the public service position several months in? How did you get the position (old colleague/mentor or recruiter)? Have you felt being treated differently (in a bad way) by other colleagues?

[Anonymous User]

Why did you make the jump and what do you miss most about the public service position several months in? How did you get the position (old colleague/mentor or recruiter)? Have you felt being treated differently (in a bad way) by other colleagues?

I made the jump for a number of reasons. I wanted to work on more complex issues in my area of law - due to my agency's mission a lot of what I did was limited to domestic issues and I wanted to broaden my skillset to include international issues. I also wanted to have at least the possibility of litigating in the federal courts in my area of the law, which was foreclosed if I remained at my agency (because the vast majority of that litigation is done by the specialist litigators at DOJ or by the USAOs). Moving to the private sector has allowed me to begin working on more complex, international matters and to have the chance going forward of litigating in the federal courts. Secondary to those reasons were issues related to this administration's treatment of my agency and abuse of its authorities, issues that I had to confront daily due to the nature of my practice area and due to the fact I had ascended the ranks fairly quickly to become the primary subject-matter expert in areas frequently implicated by requests from the administration.

I got the position through a recruiter who had previously worked at my law school's career services and that reached out to me about the opportunity. Because the recruiter did know me so well, I took her recommendation seriously and let her submit me, and I am very glad that I did.

I haven't noticed any negative response from my new colleagues, which is likely due to the firm's culture being as welcoming as it is and also due to the fact that in our DC office we have a fair number of former government attorneys. Of the four partners I work for most often, two were previously in government.