Jones Day, Latham, or Kirkland in a Recession Forum

[Idontwanttomakeaname]

I feel like while in theory it might make sense to choose a firm based on economic resiliency, it isn't particularly practical. This is not so say that choosing an obviously failing firm is a good idea but thats not the case here. There is no particular reason to think that OP can ex ante figure out which of Latham, JD and KE will do better in a recession in whatever practice you're choosing. You should focus on what you do know about the firms when making your decision since, in all likelihood, they are pretty comparable in terms of recession risk, at least looking from the outside.

[Anonymous User]

Latham anon here: I don't have a lot of insight into this stuff. We've pushed out at least 1 first year and 1 second year every year in the last 2-3 years from my non-NYC office. Some of it might have been for low hours, but I personally think it's aggressive to start counselling out people for low hours as a first year because you don't really have that much control over your schedule at this point.

Re: being busy, I meant the firm and office have been slammed in the last couple of years and we've still managed to counsel out juniors starting as first years.

[Anonymous User]

Considering that Skadden and Paul Weiss have no offered several summers in NY this year, I think this is a fair concern. In my opinion, these are all pretty horrible choices if you're concerned about a recession. I say just go with your gut. Kirkland and Latham are large and have been very aggressive recently, and I think are more likely to shed associates in the next downturn compared to their peer firms. I immediately write off JD in most situations so would just pick among Latham or Kirkland. You can't really hedge for this. Firms may have already adjusted their offers this cycle in anticipation of a downturn anyway, so just go with what you would choose in normal circumstances.

Do you have more color on the Skadden/PW thing? Relevant to me.

I know at least one summer from T6 no offered at Skadden NY due to poor work product, but I have heard (unconfirmed) that others from Skadden were also no offered. I have heard that 6 summers from PW were no offered, I believe in NY (unconfirmed).

[Anonymous User]

Another rising 2L concerned about a recession with offers - is the safest firm (in terms of associate job security) in a recession the firm with the highest revenue per lawyer?

If so, what constitutes a bound that generally should be on the safer side (RPL of > $1.2M etc.)

[Anonymous User]

Considering that Skadden and Paul Weiss have no offered several summers in NY this year, I think this is a fair concern. In my opinion, these are all pretty horrible choices if you're concerned about a recession. I say just go with your gut. Kirkland and Latham are large and have been very aggressive recently, and I think are more likely to shed associates in the next downturn compared to their peer firms. I immediately write off JD in most situations so would just pick among Latham or Kirkland. You can't really hedge for this. Firms may have already adjusted their offers this cycle in anticipation of a downturn anyway, so just go with what you would choose in normal circumstances.

What V10 / V20 / V50 would be good choices in a recession over JD KE and LW (among others). Appreciate your comment.

Also, did PW really no-offer 6 summers in NYC? Yikes

[Man from Nantucket]

Considering that Skadden and Paul Weiss have no offered several summers in NY this year, I think this is a fair concern. In my opinion, these are all pretty horrible choices if you're concerned about a recession. I say just go with your gut. Kirkland and Latham are large and have been very aggressive recently, and I think are more likely to shed associates in the next downturn compared to their peer firms. I immediately write off JD in most situations so would just pick among Latham or Kirkland. You can't really hedge for this. Firms may have already adjusted their offers this cycle in anticipation of a downturn anyway, so just go with what you would choose in normal circumstances.

What V10 / V20 / V50 would be good choices in a recession over JD KE and LW (among others). Appreciate your comment.

Also, did PW really no-offer 6 summers in NYC? Yikes

If you’re that concerned about getting canned in a recession, join a firm’s restructuring group, don’t try and pick a firm.

[lnsl123]

Considering that Skadden and Paul Weiss have no offered several summers in NY this year, I think this is a fair concern. In my opinion, these are all pretty horrible choices if you're concerned about a recession. I say just go with your gut. Kirkland and Latham are large and have been very aggressive recently, and I think are more likely to shed associates in the next downturn compared to their peer firms. I immediately write off JD in most situations so would just pick among Latham or Kirkland. You can't really hedge for this. Firms may have already adjusted their offers this cycle in anticipation of a downturn anyway, so just go with what you would choose in normal circumstances.

What V10 / V20 / V50 would be good choices in a recession over JD KE and LW (among others). Appreciate your comment.

Also, did PW really no-offer 6 summers in NYC? Yikes

This is an interesting thought exercise, but kind of silly. Most likely you'll be out by year three regardless, recession or not. So pick the firm you want to pick. However, in my opinion, relatively smaller (less than 1000 lawyers), less geographically dispersed, lower leveraged, strong cultured firms will fair well. Firms that consistently take the long term view and make decisions informed by values will fair better I think. Firms with solid restructuring and financial regulatory practices I would imagine will fair better than others. But it depends on what sectors are hit hardest. Some firms are more exposed to public M&A, some to VC/startups, some to the banks, some to hedge funds, so it depends on how the downturn effects various industries. The lit associates are probably first to go if they're not pulled into corporate, then they'll pull back on hiring, then who knows what. Anyway, you'll probably be too jaded by that point to care.

[Anonymous User]

Considering that Skadden and Paul Weiss have no offered several summers in NY this year, I think this is a fair concern. In my opinion, these are all pretty horrible choices if you're concerned about a recession. I say just go with your gut. Kirkland and Latham are large and have been very aggressive recently, and I think are more likely to shed associates in the next downturn compared to their peer firms. I immediately write off JD in most situations so would just pick among Latham or Kirkland. You can't really hedge for this. Firms may have already adjusted their offers this cycle in anticipation of a downturn anyway, so just go with what you would choose in normal circumstances.

What V10 / V20 / V50 would be good choices in a recession over JD KE and LW (among others). Appreciate your comment.

Also, did PW really no-offer 6 summers in NYC? Yikes

PW intel is unconfirmed.

[OneTwoThreeFour]

Considering that Skadden and Paul Weiss have no offered several summers in NY this year, I think this is a fair concern. In my opinion, these are all pretty horrible choices if you're concerned about a recession. I say just go with your gut. Kirkland and Latham are large and have been very aggressive recently, and I think are more likely to shed associates in the next downturn compared to their peer firms. I immediately write off JD in most situations so would just pick among Latham or Kirkland. You can't really hedge for this. Firms may have already adjusted their offers this cycle in anticipation of a downturn anyway, so just go with what you would choose in normal circumstances.

What V10 / V20 / V50 would be good choices in a recession over JD KE and LW (among others). Appreciate your comment.

Also, did PW really no-offer 6 summers in NYC? Yikes

PW intel is unconfirmed.

WAIT WHAT PW NO-OFFERED 6 SUMMERS!?

[Big Red]

The premise is stupid, don't pick a firm based off this a priori BS - everyone is screwed in a recession & it does not matter where you are

I have no inside information, but no, PW did not no offer 6 people in their freaking NYC office

[Tenzen]

The premise is stupid, don't pick a firm based off this a priori BS - everyone is screwed in a recession & it does not matter where you are

I have no inside information, but no, PW did not no offer 6 people in their freaking NYC office

Your first point is demonstrably false, as there are firms that did not fire people during the recession. Many firms got more work because of corporations and banks that needed lawyers all of a sudden.

[Anonymous User]

Is Latham really that bad? They have a practice group I'm really interested in, but it sounds like everyone should steer clear of them.