Jones Day Compensation Data Points Forum

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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:31 pm

Incoming NLG. Does the firm observe Veteran's Day as a holiday? A good friend is getting married that weekend, so I'm trying to figure out if we have a three or four day weekend.

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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:31 pm
Incoming NLG. Does the firm observe Veteran's Day as a holiday? A good friend is getting married that weekend, so I'm trying to figure out if we have a three or four day weekend.
Yes, Veteran's Day is a federal holiday under FRCP 6. Essentially all law firms observe this day as a holiday.

But then again, you're at a biglaw, no holiday is really a holiday fwiw.

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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points

Post by papermateflair » Sun Oct 10, 2021 5:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:56 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:31 pm
Incoming NLG. Does the firm observe Veteran's Day as a holiday? A good friend is getting married that weekend, so I'm trying to figure out if we have a three or four day weekend.
Yes, Veteran's Day is a federal holiday under FRCP 6. Essentially all law firms observe this day as a holiday.

But then again, you're at a biglaw, no holiday is really a holiday fwiw.
I can't speak for *all* law firms, but both big law firms I have been at have NOT recognized veteran's day. Private employers don't give every single federal holiday off. I wouldn't count on it being an official firm holiday, but maybe JD has it on their calendar.

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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Oct 10, 2021 6:01 pm

My experience is that there are holidays and there are “holidays.” On a real holiday, you can not work short of extreme circumstances. Thinking Christmas or major religious holiday, Thanksgiving, New Year’s, Independence Day, Memorial Day, Labor Day. On a “holiday,” which is pretty much every other holiday recognized by your firm, all it means is that support staff will be unavailable and the lawyers will be working from home.

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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Oct 10, 2021 7:16 pm

Veteran’s Day is not a holiday at Jones Day. That doesn’t mean you can’t take a quick vacation but just FYI.

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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:20 am

Has anyone heard what JD is doing to address the larger bonuses and special bonuses? Assuming nothing, but last year, they did a raise in December for certain associates. Can’t tell if I’m just not getting one this year or if they aren’t doing them this year.

Pay difference is getting too big to ignore.

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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:20 am
Has anyone heard what JD is doing to address the larger bonuses and special bonuses? Assuming nothing, but last year, they did a raise in December for certain associates. Can’t tell if I’m just not getting one this year or if they aren’t doing them this year.

Pay difference is getting too big to ignore.
Why even be in this situation where you are concerned about your bonus and base for next year? Lateral to a real biglaw firm. Do the same work and get paid more and more predictably.

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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:20 am
Has anyone heard what JD is doing to address the larger bonuses and special bonuses? Assuming nothing, but last year, they did a raise in December for certain associates. Can’t tell if I’m just not getting one this year or if they aren’t doing them this year.

Pay difference is getting too big to ignore.
I used to be an associate at Jones Day secondary market office. Last year's December raises were due to no raise during normal raise period for most associates, and pay cuts for some associates. The December raises were not a response to larger/extra bonuses at other firms. They gave out normal raises this year in July, so don't expect that kind of raise in December again.

Regarding bonuses, don't expect anything. Last year when firms started giving out special/covid bonuses an associate in my office asked if JD will be doing the same, or giving us any kind of parity. Answer from partner in charge was no, JD has never done bonuses and we never will.

Yeah... leave if you can.

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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:27 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:20 am
Has anyone heard what JD is doing to address the larger bonuses and special bonuses? Assuming nothing, but last year, they did a raise in December for certain associates. Can’t tell if I’m just not getting one this year or if they aren’t doing them this year.

Pay difference is getting too big to ignore.
I used to be an associate at Jones Day secondary market office. Last year's December raises were due to no raise during normal raise period for most associates, and pay cuts for some associates. The December raises were not a response to larger/extra bonuses at other firms. They gave out normal raises this year in July, so don't expect that kind of raise in December again.

Regarding bonuses, don't expect anything. Last year when firms started giving out special/covid bonuses an associate in my office asked if JD will be doing the same, or giving us any kind of parity. Answer from partner in charge was no, JD has never done bonuses and we never will.

Yeah... leave if you can.
This hits home. Also in a secondary market, but with other firms in my city now paying market bonuses I'll be missing out on tens of thousands this year.

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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:03 pm

C/o 2020

My 2020 year end comp at JD will be $207,500 = (190+225/2). By comparison, market will be $233,500 = ((190+205/2)+12 special + 24 year end).

On one hand, I want out. But on the other, I’ll end my year having billed 1700, of which 250 is pro Bono. I haven’t gotten any hours pressure. Not sure whether the ~25k difference is worth the potential extra 400 or so hours.

I know a lot of discussion on this thread can be fairly breathless but would appreciate genuine wisdom from someone whose faced the same conundrum.

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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points

Post by peoplearehungry » Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:03 pm
C/o 2020

My 2020 year end comp at JD will be $207,500 = (190+225/2). By comparison, market will be $233,500 = ((190+205/2)+12 special + 24 year end).

On one hand, I want out. But on the other, I’ll end my year having billed 1700, of which 250 is pro Bono. I haven’t gotten any hours pressure. Not sure whether the ~25k difference is worth the potential extra 400 or so hours.

I know a lot of discussion on this thread can be fairly breathless but would appreciate genuine wisdom from someone whose faced the same conundrum.
As a good lawyer, I will tell you that the answer to this is: it depends. What do you value? Do you want to make as much money in the shortest possible timeframe? Get out and go get paid. Do you want to work low hours while still practicing in a BigLaw environment? Maybe stay (though others will point out that this is not impossible at other firms - you definitely roll the dice when you move). How long will the partnership tolerate paying near BigLaw salary for ~1450 hours of billable work? What are your relationships at the firm? Etc.

Best of luck.

2013

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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points

Post by 2013 » Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:03 pm
C/o 2020

My 2020 year end comp at JD will be $207,500 = (190+225/2). By comparison, market will be $233,500 = ((190+205/2)+12 special + 24 year end).

On one hand, I want out. But on the other, I’ll end my year having billed 1700, of which 250 is pro Bono. I haven’t gotten any hours pressure. Not sure whether the ~25k difference is worth the potential extra 400 or so hours.

I know a lot of discussion on this thread can be fairly breathless but would appreciate genuine wisdom from someone whose faced the same conundrum.
Not an apples to apples comparison. JD doesn’t raise in January whereas other firms do.

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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:35 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:03 pm
On one hand, I want out. But on the other, I’ll end my year having billed 1700, of which 250 is pro Bono. I haven’t gotten any hours pressure. Not sure whether the ~25k difference is worth the potential extra 400 or so hours.
Would having a firmer hours target but unlimited pro bono be an upgrade for you? If so, you definitely have options.

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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:30 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:03 pm
C/o 2020

My 2020 year end comp at JD will be $207,500 = (190+225/2). By comparison, market will be $233,500 = ((190+205/2)+12 special + 24 year end).

On one hand, I want out. But on the other, I’ll end my year having billed 1700, of which 250 is pro Bono. I haven’t gotten any hours pressure. Not sure whether the ~25k difference is worth the potential extra 400 or so hours.

I know a lot of discussion on this thread can be fairly breathless but would appreciate genuine wisdom from someone whose faced the same conundrum.
It's going to be person specific, but if you're looking for market paying firms that don't have a hard hours requirement they're out there. I lateraled to JD from a V10 (JD was the only big name in the secondary market I wanted). My V10 firm never gave us an hours requirement. They told us things like, average billed hours by associates is 1700. You should try to bill 160 hours a month, etc. But otherwise no pressure to meet a specific yearly goal, unlimited pro bono. Bonuses were based on if you are in "good standing" so virtually everyone got them regardless of hours (I billed less than 100 hours during sept-dec of my stub year and got the January bonus, pro-rated, of course). You should look around and ask people what their firms are like if you're looking to lateral for more pay parity with big law firms.

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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:50 am

I left JD earlier this year for a v10 and am so happy I did. I defended it for way too long and now that I am on the other side it is glaringly apparent how cheap and dinosaur-like the firm is.

For people worried about hours, there are plenty of firms with good hours policies where you can make bonus by billing like 1600 hours and doing pro bono and recruiting to make up the difference.

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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:03 pm
C/o 2020

My 2020 year end comp at JD will be $207,500 = (190+225/2). By comparison, market will be $233,500 = ((190+205/2)+12 special + 24 year end).

On one hand, I want out. But on the other, I’ll end my year having billed 1700, of which 250 is pro Bono. I haven’t gotten any hours pressure. Not sure whether the ~25k difference is worth the potential extra 400 or so hours.

I know a lot of discussion on this thread can be fairly breathless but would appreciate genuine wisdom from someone whose faced the same conundrum.
When you get "the talk" next year about your low hours (now around 1800) and that's why you're not getting a "raise" that would otherwise meaningfully still underpay you compared to the V30 market, we should revisit this post.

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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:59 pm

2013 wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:59 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:03 pm
C/o 2020

My 2020 year end comp at JD will be $207,500 = (190+225/2). By comparison, market will be $233,500 = ((190+205/2)+12 special + 24 year end).

On one hand, I want out. But on the other, I’ll end my year having billed 1700, of which 250 is pro Bono. I haven’t gotten any hours pressure. Not sure whether the ~25k difference is worth the potential extra 400 or so hours.

I know a lot of discussion on this thread can be fairly breathless but would appreciate genuine wisdom from someone whose faced the same conundrum.
Not an apples to apples comparison. JD doesn’t raise in January whereas other firms do.
Why is it not a proper comparison? It's an exact dollar to dollar comparison for the calendar year.

In the upcoming calendar year this OP will make 225 for half a year, when market for a second year is 215+30 (assuming no special bonus in 22) = 245. Unless OP is bumped up to 265 in July, that's below market for the year.

And if you compare July 21 - July 22, market is 205/2+215/2 = 210 base, + total bonus 31,500 (counting fall 7500, annual 20+4000, but not counting spring 4500) = total market comp for the 12 months is 241,500. 225 is 16,500 below market.

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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Dec 09, 2021 8:40 pm

Does anyone ITT actually make market (i.e., base + bonus + special bonus)? If so, what office? Asking as a jaded JD associate...

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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Dec 09, 2021 8:40 pm
Does anyone ITT actually make market (i.e., base + bonus + special bonus)? If so, what office? Asking as a jaded JD associate...
Under market associate here. I'm significantly over hours, in an in-demand transactional practice and in a major market. I'm out.

Questioning my judgment for staying as long as I have.

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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Dec 10, 2021 8:18 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Dec 09, 2021 8:40 pm
Does anyone ITT actually make market (i.e., base + bonus + special bonus)? If so, what office? Asking as a jaded JD associate...
I hear some of the SCOTUS hires shatter market, but that's obviously a special case.

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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:33 am

I know someone in that group who made well over market as a first year post-clerkship but not sure what comp looks like after that.

Does JD make more partners than it’s peers and/or pay junior partners well? If not, then I’m not sure how they attempt to justify the comp to talent that could go elsewhere.

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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Dec 09, 2021 8:40 pm
Does anyone ITT actually make market (i.e., base + bonus + special bonus)? If so, what office? Asking as a jaded JD associate...
Yes. Not common but it happens (at least in major markets).

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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Dec 15, 2021 8:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:01 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Dec 09, 2021 8:40 pm
Does anyone ITT actually make market (i.e., base + bonus + special bonus)? If so, what office? Asking as a jaded JD associate...
Yes. Not common but it happens (at least in major markets).
If paying market is an exception in major markets, then I dunno wtf people stay there for. Not a single person I know in my secondary market office gets NYC market, though other firms in the city are starting to move to a national scale. Probably time to jump ship before the gap gets even worse.

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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Dec 16, 2021 12:42 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:30 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:03 pm
C/o 2020

My 2020 year end comp at JD will be $207,500 = (190+225/2). By comparison, market will be $233,500 = ((190+205/2)+12 special + 24 year end).

On one hand, I want out. But on the other, I’ll end my year having billed 1700, of which 250 is pro Bono. I haven’t gotten any hours pressure. Not sure whether the ~25k difference is worth the potential extra 400 or so hours.

I know a lot of discussion on this thread can be fairly breathless but would appreciate genuine wisdom from someone whose faced the same conundrum.
It's going to be person specific, but if you're looking for market paying firms that don't have a hard hours requirement they're out there. I lateraled to JD from a V10 (JD was the only big name in the secondary market I wanted). My V10 firm never gave us an hours requirement. They told us things like, average billed hours by associates is 1700. You should try to bill 160 hours a month, etc. But otherwise no pressure to meet a specific yearly goal, unlimited pro bono. Bonuses were based on if you are in "good standing" so virtually everyone got them regardless of hours (I billed less than 100 hours during sept-dec of my stub year and got the January bonus, pro-rated, of course). You should look around and ask people what their firms are like if you're looking to lateral for more pay parity with big law firms.
Yeah I mean I’m at fricken K&E of all places and know multiple people that bill ~1800, collect a bonus slightly above market, and get to stay for another year to do the same at higher pay. Sure most of us are hitting higher numbers but nobody seems to be getting shot in the alley out back for hitting numbers similar to the ones in ITT for much higher pay.

I’m sure it’s similar at other V10s - look out for your own interests people, the firm certainly won’t.

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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Dec 22, 2021 3:52 pm

Any idea how widespread these “not bonuses” are?

Sounds like most folks are getting 10-20k, but pretty small sample size so far.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

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