Jones Day Compensation Data Points Forum

[Anonymous User]

Is the equity partnership tier actually giant or are many partners in effect non-equity partners?

and giant equity partnership tier.

[Anonymous User]

Jones Day is also not just a midwest law firm. It dominates Atlanta and Miami

JD doesn't come close to dominating either of those markets. At best, it is hanging on to the bottom of the top tier in each, behind King & Spalding/Alston & Bird and White & Case/Holland & Knight/maybe GT but they're slipping. JD is a respectable player in each city, but no one who knows either would ever call them the dominant top dog. Spoken as someone especially familiar with the markets of the Southeast.

[Anonymous User]

.

[Anonymous User]

A truly elite firm like Davis, Cleary, etc.

lol

[Anonymous User]

The Issues & Appeals associates get paid above market? Can anyone confirm?

[Anonymous User]

A truly elite firm like Davis, Cleary, etc.

lol

It’s genuinely getting hard around here to figure out whether it’s satire or ppl angerposting about their firm like it’s 2011

[Anonymous User]

Is the equity partnership tier actually giant or are many partners in effect non-equity partners?

and giant equity partnership tier.

The average equity partner compensation across the firm is $1.1 million and the true equity (i.e., percentage participant partners) is $2.5 million to $3 million so it’s likely that the vast majority of the non-percentage participant partners are getting paid less than $500k and maybe less than $400k to end up at that average.

[Anonymous User]

The Issues & Appeals associates get paid above market? Can anyone confirm?

From the daddy leave litigation that came out yeah for sure JD is throwing top of the market signing bonuses at the SCOTUS clerks. And they will give above market pay to those few attorneys. Some I&A associates may only be getting market. We don’t know.

It’s the firm management view, as seen in the post above that is probz written by a JD partner, that having prestigious lawyers like that will add sheen to the firm that carries across the entire array of practices. It does not.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know much about the BATL practice in New York? Is it any good?
I'm pretty troubled by the comment above about people getting "snookered" by Jones Day's ranking . . . .

It is perfectly respectable. Chambers ranks Jones Day Band 1 in General Commercial: Highly Regarded in New York - alongside WilmerHale and Paul Hastings and above White & Case and Sidley Austin. Vault ranks Jones Day's New York office 28th in New York according to other New York associates. BATL is a Law360 practice group of the year for product liability. Acritas's survey of in-house counsels shows that Jones Day remains a go-to firm for major companies, even after the election. These are facts, not opinions.

Everyone reading this thread should ask: Why are so many anonymous posters so wound up about a firm they've never worked at and have no inside knowledge about? Some of it is assuredly political. Certain folks will hate Jones Day for representing Trump and will let that hatred color their opinion of its non-DC offices and non I&A practice groups. Just read some of the previous posts ("Hopefully the Trump election litigation will bring it down where it belongs."). Other folks may be members of the Lincoln Project, who orchestrated a smear campaign against Jones Day to drive foot traffic to their website and donations into their coffers.

Even before the election, Jones Day wasn't the right firm for everyone. But let's stick to the objective data. Like it or not, Jones Day is a powerhouse in many fields, including litigation. And associates have every right to care about firm culture and partnership prospects. None of the speculation in this thread about where Jones Day "belongs" should change that.

[2013]

Does anyone know much about the BATL practice in New York? Is it any good?
I'm pretty troubled by the comment above about people getting "snookered" by Jones Day's ranking . . . .

It is perfectly respectable. Chambers ranks Jones Day Band 1 in General Commercial: Highly Regarded in New York - alongside WilmerHale and Paul Hastings and above White & Case and Sidley Austin. Vault ranks Jones Day's New York office 28th in New York according to other New York associates. BATL is a Law360 practice group of the year for product liability. Acritas's survey of in-house counsels shows that Jones Day remains a go-to firm for major companies, even after the election. These are facts, not opinions.

Everyone reading this thread should ask: Why are so many anonymous posters so wound up about a firm they've never worked at and have no inside knowledge about? Some of it is assuredly political. Certain folks will hate Jones Day for representing Trump and will let that hatred color their opinion of its non-DC offices and non I&A practice groups. Just read some of the previous posts ("Hopefully the Trump election litigation will bring it down where it belongs."). Other folks may be members of the Lincoln Project, who orchestrated a smear campaign against Jones Day to drive foot traffic to their website and donations into their coffers.

Even before the election, Jones Day wasn't the right firm for everyone. But let's stick to the objective data. Like it or not, Jones Day is a powerhouse in many fields, including litigation. And associates have every right to care about firm culture and partnership prospects. None of the speculation in this thread about where Jones Day "belongs" should change that.

Your facts are based on opinions...

Anyway, not many people here are saying JD is not a good firm. Most people are just wondering how a firm that perpetually underpays most associates remains in the V20, a ranking conducted by associates.

[Anonymous User]

The Issues & Appeals associates get paid above market? Can anyone confirm?

From the daddy leave litigation that came out yeah for sure JD is throwing top of the market signing bonuses at the SCOTUS clerks. And they will give above market pay to those few attorneys. Some I&A associates may only be getting market. We don’t know.

It’s the firm management view, as seen in the post above that is probz written by a JD partner, that having prestigious lawyers like that will add sheen to the firm that carries across the entire array of practices. It does not.

I believe all the Issues & Appeals associates get above market. According to the lawsuit Julie made $440,000 as a 7th year and the firm claimed that was the lowest of any associate in the group. Mark made $500,000 as a 7th year, maybe more, and James Burnham made a lot more than that.

[Anonymous User]

It is perfectly respectable. Chambers ranks Jones Day Band 1 in General Commercial: Highly Regarded in New York - alongside WilmerHale and Paul Hastings and above White & Case and Sidley Austin. Vault ranks Jones Day's New York office 28th in New York according to other New York associates. BATL is a Law360 practice group of the year for product liability. Acritas's survey of in-house counsels shows that Jones Day remains a go-to firm for major companies, even after the election. These are facts, not opinions.

Everyone reading this thread should ask: Why are so many anonymous posters so wound up about a firm they've never worked at and have no inside knowledge about? Some of it is assuredly political. Certain folks will hate Jones Day for representing Trump and will let that hatred color their opinion of its non-DC offices and non I&A practice groups. Just read some of the previous posts ("Hopefully the Trump election litigation will bring it down where it belongs."). Other folks may be members of the Lincoln Project, who orchestrated a smear campaign against Jones Day to drive foot traffic to their website and donations into their coffers.

Even before the election, Jones Day wasn't the right firm for everyone. But let's stick to the objective data. Like it or not, Jones Day is a powerhouse in many fields, including litigation. And associates have every right to care about firm culture and partnership prospects. None of the speculation in this thread about where Jones Day "belongs" should change that.

Lmfao I work at JD and (for the most part) like working at JD but wow this is almost copypasta deranged

[Anonymous User]

I believe all the Issues & Appeals associates get above market. According to the lawsuit Julie made $440,000 as a 7th year and the firm claimed that was the lowest of any associate in the group. Mark made $500,000 as a 7th year, maybe more, and James Burnham made a lot more than that.

Curious about I&A salary data points for non-SCOTUS clerks

[Anonymous User]

Is the equity partnership tier actually giant or are many partners in effect non-equity partners?

and giant equity partnership tier.

The average equity partner compensation across the firm is $1.1 million and the true equity (i.e., percentage participant partners) is $2.5 million to $3 million so it’s likely that the vast majority of the non-percentage participant partners are getting paid less than $500k and maybe less than $400k to end up at that average.

Partner salary data points from one lawsuit and appointee financial disclosure

• 800k for 6th year employee benefits partner with no book of business in Silicon Valley

• 600-800k for 4th-6th year healthcare service partner in San Diego

• 1.2M for 10th year BATL partner in Boston with somewhat of a book of business

• 4.5M for Noel Francisco who did heavy lifting for major client Reynolds on both I&A and BATL a

• 1.5 M for 10th year I&A partner in Columbus

• 1.8 M for head of Energy Practice

• 500k for 1st year I&A partner in DC (10 years post grad in 2016)

• 2.4 M for Don McGahn, head of election law group and former FEC chairman

• 3.8 M for Greg Katsas, senior I&A partner in DC

•2.2M for politically connected former EEOC GC senior L&E partner in DC

• 1.5M for senior election law partner in DC

What I can divine from these numbers: junior partners with no books or connections $500k-$1M. Mid-level to senior partners with some connections $1.0M-$1.5M. Rainmakers and celebrities $1.5+. I can’t imagine these numbers are dramatically different than something like a Hogan Lovells or Cooley etc

[Anonymous User]

• 800k for 6th year employee benefits partner with no book of business in Silicon Valley

• 600-800k for 4th-6th year healthcare service partner in San Diego

• 500k for 1st year I&A partner in DC (10 years post grad in 2016)

Let me parse this for you: 400-800k as junior-mid partner. I&A group is not representative of a junior partner's salary, assuming the first year I&A partner's salary as the upper end of a typical junior partner's salary.

The rest of the numbers you posted are directed at rainmakers/heads of practice groups.

[2013]

• 800k for 6th year employee benefits partner with no book of business in Silicon Valley

• 600-800k for 4th-6th year healthcare service partner in San Diego

• 500k for 1st year I&A partner in DC (10 years post grad in 2016)

Let me parse this for you: 400-800k as junior-mid partner. I&A group is not representative of a junior partner's salary, assuming the first year I&A partner's salary as the upper end of a typical junior partner's salary.

The rest of the numbers you posted are directed at rainmakers/heads of practice groups.

To be fair, $800k for a partner with no book is a good deal.

[Anonymous User]

Is the equity partnership tier actually giant or are many partners in effect non-equity partners?

and giant equity partnership tier.

The average equity partner compensation across the firm is $1.1 million and the true equity (i.e., percentage participant partners) is $2.5 million to $3 million so it’s likely that the vast majority of the non-percentage participant partners are getting paid less than $500k and maybe less than $400k to end up at that average.

Partner salary data points from one lawsuit and appointee financial disclosure

• 800k for 6th year employee benefits partner with no book of business in Silicon Valley

• 600-800k for 4th-6th year healthcare service partner in San Diego

• 1.2M for 10th year BATL partner in Boston with somewhat of a book of business

• 4.5M for Noel Francisco who did heavy lifting for major client Reynolds on both I&A and BATL a

• 1.5 M for 10th year I&A partner in Columbus

• 1.8 M for head of Energy Practice

• 500k for 1st year I&A partner in DC (10 years post grad in 2016)

• 2.4 M for Don McGahn, head of election law group and former FEC chairman

• 3.8 M for Greg Katsas, senior I&A partner in DC

•2.2M for politically connected former EEOC GC senior L&E partner in DC

• 1.5M for senior election law partner in DC

What I can divine from these numbers: junior partners with no books or connections $500k-$1M. Mid-level to senior partners with some connections $1.0M-$1.5M. Rainmakers and celebrities $1.5+. I can’t imagine these numbers are dramatically different than something like a Hogan Lovells or Cooley etc

Is the 1st year I&A partner John Mathew Gore? His disclosure lists two values for "Jones Day (law firm)," 501,027 and 427,500. I'd guess he was a percentage participant making a total of 928,527 - the first number his salary, the second number his cut of the firm's profits.

[Anonymous User]

• 800k for 6th year employee benefits partner with no book of business in Silicon Valley

• 600-800k for 4th-6th year healthcare service partner in San Diego

• 500k for 1st year I&A partner in DC (10 years post grad in 2016)

Let me parse this for you: 400-800k as junior-mid partner. I&A group is not representative of a junior partner's salary, assuming the first year I&A partner's salary as the upper end of a typical junior partner's salary.

The rest of the numbers you posted are directed at rainmakers/heads of practice groups.

To be fair, $800k for a partner with no book is a good deal.

As of 2016, average comp for 6th-10th year partner from law firms of all sizes was 745k. See graphic 1.1 of https://law.yale.edu/sites/default/file ... ey-web.pdf.

I would not agree that 800k for a 6th year partner is anywhere near top-tier. It's certainly a huge amount from an associate's perspective, but it's probably an ok number in a partner's eye.

[2013]

• 800k for 6th year employee benefits partner with no book of business in Silicon Valley

• 600-800k for 4th-6th year healthcare service partner in San Diego

• 500k for 1st year I&A partner in DC (10 years post grad in 2016)

Let me parse this for you: 400-800k as junior-mid partner. I&A group is not representative of a junior partner's salary, assuming the first year I&A partner's salary as the upper end of a typical junior partner's salary.

The rest of the numbers you posted are directed at rainmakers/heads of practice groups.

To be fair, $800k for a partner with no book is a good deal.

As of 2016, average comp for 6th-10th year partner from law firms of all sizes was 745k. See graphic 1.1 of https://law.yale.edu/sites/default/file ... ey-web.pdf.

I would not agree that 800k for a 6th year partner is anywhere near top-tier. It's certainly a huge amount from an associate's perspective, but it's probably an ok number in a partner's eye.

But this partner has no book of business. I don’t know if you can even make partner at the firm I’m at without a book.

[Anonymous User]

• 800k for 6th year employee benefits partner with no book of business in Silicon Valley

• 600-800k for 4th-6th year healthcare service partner in San Diego

• 500k for 1st year I&A partner in DC (10 years post grad in 2016)

Let me parse this for you: 400-800k as junior-mid partner. I&A group is not representative of a junior partner's salary, assuming the first year I&A partner's salary as the upper end of a typical junior partner's salary.

The rest of the numbers you posted are directed at rainmakers/heads of practice groups.

To be fair, $800k for a partner with no book is a good deal.

As of 2016, average comp for 6th-10th year partner from law firms of all sizes was 745k. See graphic 1.1 of https://law.yale.edu/sites/default/file ... ey-web.pdf.

I would not agree that 800k for a 6th year partner is anywhere near top-tier. It's certainly a huge amount from an associate's perspective, but it's probably an ok number in a partner's eye.

But this partner has no book of business. I don’t know if you can even make partner at the firm I’m at without a book.

This. No one in this thread has argued Jones Day partners all make "top-tier" money. The firm does, however, internally promote many partners (50 this year, 34 last year) and these partners often make considerably more than senior associates.

[Elston Gunn]

Does anyone know much about the BATL practice in New York? Is it any good?
I'm pretty troubled by the comment above about people getting "snookered" by Jones Day's ranking . . . .

Everyone reading this thread should ask: Why are so many anonymous posters so wound up about a firm they've never worked at and have no inside knowledge about? Some of it is assuredly political. Certain folks will hate Jones Day for representing Trump and will let that hatred color their opinion of its non-DC offices and non I&A practice groups. Just read some of the previous posts ("Hopefully the Trump election litigation will bring it down where it belongs."). Other folks may be members of the Lincoln Project, who orchestrated a smear campaign against Jones Day to drive foot traffic to their website and donations into their coffers.

Lincoln Project paid bots poasting on top-law-schools.com/forums to smear the good name of Jones Day

[objctnyrhnr]

Does anyone know much about the BATL practice in New York? Is it any good?
I'm pretty troubled by the comment above about people getting "snookered" by Jones Day's ranking . . . .

Everyone reading this thread should ask: Why are so many anonymous posters so wound up about a firm they've never worked at and have no inside knowledge about? Some of it is assuredly political. Certain folks will hate Jones Day for representing Trump and will let that hatred color their opinion of its non-DC offices and non I&A practice groups. Just read some of the previous posts ("Hopefully the Trump election litigation will bring it down where it belongs."). Other folks may be members of the Lincoln Project, who orchestrated a smear campaign against Jones Day to drive foot traffic to their website and donations into their coffers.

Lincoln Project paid bots poasting on top-law-schools.com/forums to smear the good name of Jones Day

Is this true? What makes you said this occurred? Or is this a joke?

But also Jones day does it to itself. All Jones day has to do to avoid getting smeared on TLS is what every other v40 (maybe minus hogan Lovells and another few) do and just pay market Comp. Unless and until that occurs, they’ll keep getting smeared. If they did transparently pay market comp, I have a feeling that their fedsoc preference would get overlooked more often than not.

[Anonymous User]

• 800k for 6th year employee benefits partner with no book of business in Silicon Valley

• 600-800k for 4th-6th year healthcare service partner in San Diego

• 500k for 1st year I&A partner in DC (10 years post grad in 2016)

Let me parse this for you: 400-800k as junior-mid partner. I&A group is not representative of a junior partner's salary, assuming the first year I&A partner's salary as the upper end of a typical junior partner's salary.

The rest of the numbers you posted are directed at rainmakers/heads of practice groups.

To be fair, $800k for a partner with no book is a good deal.

As of 2016, average comp for 6th-10th year partner from law firms of all sizes was 745k. See graphic 1.1 of https://law.yale.edu/sites/default/file ... ey-web.pdf.

I would not agree that 800k for a 6th year partner is anywhere near top-tier. It's certainly a huge amount from an associate's perspective, but it's probably an ok number in a partner's eye.

But this partner has no book of business. I don’t know if you can even make partner at the firm I’m at without a book.

This. No one in this thread has argued Jones Day partners all make "top-tier" money. The firm does, however, internally promote many partners (50 this year, 34 last year) and these partners often make considerably more than senior associates.

Dude, the Silicon Valley partner in question was an ERISA partner. ERISA partners are notorious for being paid without a book of business because their work is so essential to M&A, bankruptcy, etc. transactions and does not require business origination of any kind. There are ERISA partners at Cravath and Debevoise being given a cut of partner profits in New York without doing ANY BUSINESS ORIGINATION and billing 1,200 hours a year. And unlike at JD, a cut of partner profits at an elite Manhattan law firm is not $800,000-- it's $4.5 million on average. There are likely ERISA partners at top New York firms being paid $6-8 million who bill almost nothing and bring in no business. Those partners are why Davis Polk et al. are moving away from lockstep.

So spare me some argument about how $800,000 for an ERISA partner at Jones Day is something special. It's not. In fact, if you were to parse the entire list that has been posted here, you'd find the compensation listed includes extraordinary, one-off payments for departing employees to government (e.g., Burnham; Francisco) that makes their comp look more lucrative than in reality, and otherwise is much, much less than at a true prestige law firm in New York (e.g., with a PPP of $5 million or higher -- and all of CSM, DPW, STB, Sullivan, Paul, Weiss, Deb will breach that figure this year).

[Anonymous User]

• 800k for 6th year employee benefits partner with no book of business in Silicon Valley

• 600-800k for 4th-6th year healthcare service partner in San Diego

• 500k for 1st year I&A partner in DC (10 years post grad in 2016)

Let me parse this for you: 400-800k as junior-mid partner. I&A group is not representative of a junior partner's salary, assuming the first year I&A partner's salary as the upper end of a typical junior partner's salary.

The rest of the numbers you posted are directed at rainmakers/heads of practice groups.

To be fair, $800k for a partner with no book is a good deal.

As of 2016, average comp for 6th-10th year partner from law firms of all sizes was 745k. See graphic 1.1 of https://law.yale.edu/sites/default/file ... ey-web.pdf.

I would not agree that 800k for a 6th year partner is anywhere near top-tier. It's certainly a huge amount from an associate's perspective, but it's probably an ok number in a partner's eye.

But this partner has no book of business. I don’t know if you can even make partner at the firm I’m at without a book.

This. No one in this thread has argued Jones Day partners all make "top-tier" money. The firm does, however, internally promote many partners (50 this year, 34 last year) and these partners often make considerably more than senior associates.

Dude, the Silicon Valley partner in question was an ERISA partner. ERISA partners are notorious for being paid without a book of business because their work is so essential to M&A, bankruptcy, etc. transactions and does not require business origination of any kind. There are ERISA partners at Cravath and Debevoise being given a cut of partner profits in New York without doing ANY BUSINESS ORIGINATION and billing 1,200 hours a year. And unlike at JD, a cut of partner profits at an elite Manhattan law firm is not $800,000-- it's $4.5 million on average. There are likely ERISA partners at top New York firms being paid $6-8 million who bill almost nothing and bring in no business. Those partners are why Davis Polk et al. are moving away from lockstep.

So spare me some argument about how $800,000 for an ERISA partner at Jones Day is something special. It's not. In fact, if you were to parse the entire list that has been posted here, you'd find the compensation listed includes extraordinary, one-off payments for departing employees to government (e.g., Burnham; Francisco) that makes their comp look more lucrative than in reality, and otherwise is much, much less than at a true prestige law firm in New York (e.g., with a PPP of $5 million or higher -- and all of CSM, DPW, STB, Sullivan, Paul, Weiss, Deb will breach that figure this year).

What are you even arguing? Nobody said Jones Day partners earn more than partners at Cravath. Although, for the record, only two firms in the world cleared $5 million PPEP in 2020 - Wachtell and Kirkland. "True prestige law firm"? Lol.

Percentage participants at Jones Day (i.e. equity partners) make between $2 million and $2.5 million, about the same as equity partners at Cooley, WilmerHale and O'Melveny. Why would you compare an Ohio firm with Detroit and Pittsburgh offices to New York's foremost white shoe institutions? And what do Burnham and Francisco have to do with anything? Burnham made $510,000 as a 6th year associate without a SCOTUS clerkship, after subtracting his departure bonus. Francisco made millions subtracting his. Everyone agrees they're anomalies. What's your point?

People have argued it's easier to make partner at Jones Day than at Cravath. Surely you agree? Cravath made three partners total in 2018 and has no non-equity partners. If you happen to be one of the two ECB partners it made in the last five partnership classes, congratulations. But for those of us working at not-"true prestige law firms", $800,000 with no book of business is good money.

[Elston Gunn]

Does anyone know much about the BATL practice in New York? Is it any good?
I'm pretty troubled by the comment above about people getting "snookered" by Jones Day's ranking . . . .

Everyone reading this thread should ask: Why are so many anonymous posters so wound up about a firm they've never worked at and have no inside knowledge about? Some of it is assuredly political. Certain folks will hate Jones Day for representing Trump and will let that hatred color their opinion of its non-DC offices and non I&A practice groups. Just read some of the previous posts ("Hopefully the Trump election litigation will bring it down where it belongs."). Other folks may be members of the Lincoln Project, who orchestrated a smear campaign against Jones Day to drive foot traffic to their website and donations into their coffers.

Lincoln Project paid bots poasting on top-law-schools.com/forums to smear the good name of Jones Day

Is this true? What makes you said this occurred? Or is this a joke?

But also Jones day does it to itself. All Jones day has to do to avoid getting smeared on TLS is what every other v40 (maybe minus hogan Lovells and another few) do and just pay market Comp. Unless and until that occurs, they’ll keep getting smeared. If they did transparently pay market comp, I have a feeling that their fedsoc preference would get overlooked more often than not.

It’s a joke. I thought the JD anon’s claims that the criticism of JD came from “members of the Lincoln Project” was a particularly amusing part of an overall absurd defense of JD.