I think lower RPL has more to do with the fact that JD has offices in Cleveland and Pittsburgh and stuff, where you can’t charge associates out at $1000/hr.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 4:09 pmLots of people feel this way, but they don't usually check TLS. Honestly, Jones Day may have the best work-life balance of any V20 (not like that's saying much...). With a RPL about half the others, it doesn't need to squeeze the same volume of blood out of each associate. Other firms offer a similar work-life balance if you know where to look, especially midlaw and boutiques. But as far as biglaw, Jones Day isn't that bad.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 12:20 pmDoes anyone else feel like their experience at JD hasn't been all that bad? I'm in a market-paying city and received a lateral offer to a more highly regarded firm in the same city. Compensation would obviously be much higher due to bonuses, but I feel like I have a surprisingly manageable work-life balance at JD that arguably makes the lower compensation worth it. Does anyone else feel like the work-life balance makes the lower compensation worth it?
Jones Day Compensation Data Points Forum
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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points
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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points
Yes exactly, I would need to travel once a quarter or so and for certain events but can otherwise work from wherever.UnfrozenCaveman wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 12:16 pmDo you mean the firm will let you work anywhere but you have to travel to your "home office" sometimes?
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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points
That plays a role too. Ditto foreign offices. But the point remains: the firm's economics don't depend on lawyers bringing in $1.8 million each, and that affects the treatment of low-billing associates. I know associates billing 1500/year at Jones Day. They don't get significant raises, but they also don't get shown the door. I doubt many V20 firms would put up with that - but maybe I'm too cynical.2013 wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 4:37 pmI think lower RPL has more to do with the fact that JD has offices in Cleveland and Pittsburgh and stuff, where you can’t charge associates out at $1000/hr.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 4:09 pmLots of people feel this way, but they don't usually check TLS. Honestly, Jones Day may have the best work-life balance of any V20 (not like that's saying much...). With a RPL about half the others, it doesn't need to squeeze the same volume of blood out of each associate. Other firms offer a similar work-life balance if you know where to look, especially midlaw and boutiques. But as far as biglaw, Jones Day isn't that bad.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 12:20 pmDoes anyone else feel like their experience at JD hasn't been all that bad? I'm in a market-paying city and received a lateral offer to a more highly regarded firm in the same city. Compensation would obviously be much higher due to bonuses, but I feel like I have a surprisingly manageable work-life balance at JD that arguably makes the lower compensation worth it. Does anyone else feel like the work-life balance makes the lower compensation worth it?
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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points
Any chance you could PM me?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 11:06 pmYes exactly, I would need to travel once a quarter or so and for certain events but can otherwise work from wherever.UnfrozenCaveman wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 12:16 pmDo you mean the firm will let you work anywhere but you have to travel to your "home office" sometimes?
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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points
Isn’t this exactly what Goodwin was advertising everywhere for a few months?UnfrozenCaveman wrote: ↑Fri May 07, 2021 8:06 amAny chance you could PM me?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 11:06 pmYes exactly, I would need to travel once a quarter or so and for certain events but can otherwise work from wherever.UnfrozenCaveman wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 12:16 pmDo you mean the firm will let you work anywhere but you have to travel to your "home office" sometimes?
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- UnfrozenCaveman
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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points
Goodwin is advertising remote in the places where they have an office. This sounds more than that.
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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points
Heard Kirkland is also doing this and may have poached associates. Goodwin too2013 wrote: ↑Fri May 07, 2021 8:45 amIsn’t this exactly what Goodwin was advertising everywhere for a few months?UnfrozenCaveman wrote: ↑Fri May 07, 2021 8:06 amAny chance you could PM me?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 11:06 pmYes exactly, I would need to travel once a quarter or so and for certain events but can otherwise work from wherever.UnfrozenCaveman wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 12:16 pmDo you mean the firm will let you work anywhere but you have to travel to your "home office" sometimes?
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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points
Anon because I'm an incoming first-year. Does Jones Day do any land use work? I've recently become really interested in this type of work and am curious if I'll be able to build a practice around it at the firm. Are there any practice groups at the firm that would be worth looking into as an NLG?
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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points
California specific answer: No not really. We have a strong real estate practice but they mainly deal with transactions, financing etc. Regional firms tend to do the most interesting land use — I’m thinking of Allen Matkins, Farella. Among firms of Jones Day’s scale, I think Gibson Dunn and Paul Hastings do quite a lot of zoning/land use due to long histories in California. I’m sure there’s others but that’s what I know of. Can’t speak for outside of California.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 1:30 pmAnon because I'm an incoming first-year. Does Jones Day do any land use work? I've recently become really interested in this type of work and am curious if I'll be able to build a practice around it at the firm. Are there any practice groups at the firm that would be worth looking into as an NLG?
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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points
Thanks, and that's good to know about California. Are there any practice groups (outside of the real estate group) at the firm that you think could give me some experience in land use?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 3:38 pmCalifornia specific answer: No not really. We have a strong real estate practice but they mainly deal with transactions, financing etc. Regional firms tend to do the most interesting land use — I’m thinking of Allen Matkins, Farella. Among firms of Jones Day’s scale, I think Gibson Dunn and Paul Hastings do quite a lot of zoning/land use due to long histories in California. I’m sure there’s others but that’s what I know of. Can’t speak for outside of California.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 1:30 pmAnon because I'm an incoming first-year. Does Jones Day do any land use work? I've recently become really interested in this type of work and am curious if I'll be able to build a practice around it at the firm. Are there any practice groups at the firm that would be worth looking into as an NLG?
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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points
Closest would be either environmental or construction litigation
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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points
Does anyone know JD’s policy on bonus clawbacks?
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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points
Is construction still a standalone practice group, or has it been subsumed by BATL?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 7:13 pmClosest would be either environmental or construction litigation
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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points
They do a 24-month clawback. I summered there, and they clawed back all $$ when I didn't return post-clerkship (bar expenses, etc.). Not sure how rigidly enforce it if you actually work there for a bit. I heard they clawed back part of a SCOTUS clerk's bonus when they left before 24 months, but that might be a different situation.
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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points
Curious if it is pro rated? Does anyone know?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 3:03 pmThey do a 24-month clawback. I summered there, and they clawed back all $$ when I didn't return post-clerkship (bar expenses, etc.). Not sure how rigidly enforce it if you actually work there for a bit. I heard they clawed back part of a SCOTUS clerk's bonus when they left before 24 months, but that might be a different situation.
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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points
Anon because it’s someone’s employment agreement, and they’re at JD.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 8:41 amCurious if it is pro rated? Does anyone know?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 3:03 pmThey do a 24-month clawback. I summered there, and they clawed back all $$ when I didn't return post-clerkship (bar expenses, etc.). Not sure how rigidly enforce it if you actually work there for a bit. I heard they clawed back part of a SCOTUS clerk's bonus when they left before 24 months, but that might be a different situation.
My colleague’s spouse is a former SCOTUS clerk associate at JD. It may be different for others and for other types of bonuses, but they had to stay the 2 years or the entire $400k would have been clawed back. So, no proration for this specific person’s SCOTUS bonus.
Edit — this was brought up because the spouse wanted to gtfo one year in but couldn’t due to the clawback.
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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points
Wow. I’m a little shocked it’s not prorated. I wonder about non SCTOUS clerkships
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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points
An associate from my office who was a district court clerk left less than a year after joining. His clerkship bonus was clawed back on a prorated basis. So my understanding is that is how it works and I have no idea if SCOTUS clerks have a different agreement (although it would not be surprising because the # of SCOTUS clerks is a major part of the brand).
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sun May 23, 2021 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 2:27 pmAn associate from my office who was a district court clerk left less than a year after joining. His clerkship bonus was clawed back on a prorated basis. So my understanding is that is how it works and I have no idea if SCOTUS clerks have a different agreement (although it would not be surprising because the # of SCOTUS clerks is a major part of the brand).
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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points
Confirming that this is the contract's language. However, I've heard from trusted sources the clawback is not actually enforced in practice unless the clerk leaves for a different firm. Even then, the clawback is prorated.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 10:36 amAnon because it’s someone’s employment agreement, and they’re at JD.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 8:41 amCurious if it is pro rated? Does anyone know?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 3:03 pmThey do a 24-month clawback. I summered there, and they clawed back all $$ when I didn't return post-clerkship (bar expenses, etc.). Not sure how rigidly enforce it if you actually work there for a bit. I heard they clawed back part of a SCOTUS clerk's bonus when they left before 24 months, but that might be a different situation.
My colleague’s spouse is a former SCOTUS clerk associate at JD. It may be different for others and for other types of bonuses, but they had to stay the 2 years or the entire $400k would have been clawed back. So, no proration for this specific person’s SCOTUS bonus.
Edit — this was brought up because the spouse wanted to gtfo one year in but couldn’t due to the clawback.
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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points
Do recruiting firms ever offer to cover the clawback? Not sure if that's a thing.
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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points
Bumping this thread because compensation letters are getting distributed today.
I’m a mid-level in a 170-starting market, and I’m particularly curious this year about other data points. We’re in a unique year (particularly for secondary markets) because of (1) the recent practice of firms offering market pay for fully remote work, (2) the NY-to-200-I mean 202.5-I mean 205 jump, and (3) the messed up raise / comp system in 2020.
I’ll circle back once I know my raise, but just thought I’d bump this thread for a place we can share.
I’m a mid-level in a 170-starting market, and I’m particularly curious this year about other data points. We’re in a unique year (particularly for secondary markets) because of (1) the recent practice of firms offering market pay for fully remote work, (2) the NY-to-200-I mean 202.5-I mean 205 jump, and (3) the messed up raise / comp system in 2020.
I’ll circle back once I know my raise, but just thought I’d bump this thread for a place we can share.
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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points
For reference today, here is biglaw market all-in comp during this calendar year by class year. New salary scale + special bonuses + 2020 year-end bonus scale. It is a little overstated since the new salary scale is effective for only 5 months of this year, but probably the most useful point of reference since JD purposely tries to obfuscate apples to apples comparisons with mid-year raises.
2020: 232,000 (205k+12k+15k)
2019: 256,000 (215k+16k+25k)
2018: 322,000 (240k+32k+50k)
2017: 384,000 (275k+44k+65k)
2016: 437,000 (305k+52k+80k)
2015: 479,200 (330k+59.2k+90k)
2014: 514,000 (350k+64k+100k)
2013: 529,000 (365k+64k+100k)
If your letter is off this number and you are in a major market, time to polish off those resumes. Your letter should be higher than this number for your class year considering the salary raise the rest of the market will give in January.
2020: 232,000 (205k+12k+15k)
2019: 256,000 (215k+16k+25k)
2018: 322,000 (240k+32k+50k)
2017: 384,000 (275k+44k+65k)
2016: 437,000 (305k+52k+80k)
2015: 479,200 (330k+59.2k+90k)
2014: 514,000 (350k+64k+100k)
2013: 529,000 (365k+64k+100k)
If your letter is off this number and you are in a major market, time to polish off those resumes. Your letter should be higher than this number for your class year considering the salary raise the rest of the market will give in January.
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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points
Excited to follow this thread today lol. Good luck yall
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Re: Jones Day Compensation Data Points
Thank you. This is exactly right.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:02 amFor reference today, here is biglaw market all-in comp during this calendar year by class year. New salary scale + special bonuses + 2020 year-end bonus scale. It is a little overstated since the new salary scale is effective for only 5 months of this year, but probably the most useful point of reference since JD purposely tries to obfuscate apples to apples comparisons with mid-year raises.
2020: 232,000 (205k+12k+15k)
2019: 256,000 (215k+16k+25k)
2018: 322,000 (240k+32k+50k)
2017: 384,000 (275k+44k+65k)
2016: 437,000 (305k+52k+80k)
2015: 479,200 (330k+59.2k+90k)
2014: 514,000 (350k+64k+100k)
2013: 529,000 (365k+64k+100k)
If your letter is off this number and you are in a major market, time to polish off those resumes. Your letter should be higher than this number for your class year considering the salary raise the rest of the market will give in January.
Remember that your midyear JD raise means that if you’re a fifth year right now, you should be getting the average of the two class years (5th and 6th) because your revised JD comp covers half of fifth year and half of sixth year.
My best guess is that almost everyone in the 4th to 8th class year is being paid $100k below market in major markets. And remember there could be fake data getting posted here.
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