Star associate? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Question for this board’s top performing associates who are mid levels or seniors. How do firms and partners treat their “star associates”?

How do you know that you are one? I don’t think it’s written in your review. Do you have tons do work and very heavy hours, or do the partners try to not kill you so you stay? Do partners openly complement your work or is it just their attitude that they highly regard you? Is it your bonus?

Understand this may be a “If you have to ask . . . .” kind of thing but would love to hear anecdotes.

[objctnyrhnr]

Question for this board’s top performing associates who are mid levels or seniors. How do firms and partners treat their “star associates”?

How do you know that you are one? I don’t think it’s written in your review. Do you have tons do work and very heavy hours, or do the partners try to not kill you so you stay? Do partners openly complement your work or is it just their attitude that they highly regard you? Is it your bonus?

Understand this may be a “If you have to ask . . . .” kind of thing but would love to hear anecdotes.

(In lit)
1. Make a substantive strategic suggestion or a unique legal insight that didn’t occur to the partner and that ultimately constitutes a major theory/strategy that gets advanced in the context of dispositive motion practice.

2. Sell partner on aforementioned strategy

3. Help partner sell client on aforementioned strategy

4. Win motion

5. Be humble (ie dont once even subtly remind anybody that the thing that likely won the case was your idea).

4. Profit

At the end of the day, good associates write well and work hard and are well-liked. Great mid/senior associates are (behind the scenes) single-handedly the reason cases are won for clients. You need to be the former while aspiring to be the latter/seizing any opportunity you can to do so.

My 2 cents

[JohnnieSockran]

The above doesn't really respond to the question about how star associates are treated, but is more about how to become one.

In my opinion, partners will show it in different ways. Some won't say anything at all if you do a great job, some will be super appreciative and help mold your career and bring you up the ladder. You'll probably know if a partner is looking out for you in this way because these are generally good people and will be the appreciative ones.

So, it will greatly vary across partners. That said, I can almost guarantee that if you are a star associate, you will often be very, very busy. Certain partners will potentially lookout for you when you take the occasional vacation so that you can get some mental breaks and come back working hard (these are the great partners to work for and are few and far between), but no one is going to handicap your hours in order to keep you around because that would also hurt you in the bonus category.

[Anonymous User]

The senior I work with was a star associate. Works around 2200-2300 hours a year, but the partner will move mountains to get those goes down so s/he doesn’t leave for greener pastures.

Partner gives the associate clients that the partner can’t really bill on because of rates, which, in turn, helps the associate build a small book.

Partner constantly praises the associate on the associate’s achievements.

Partner (very prominent) essentially told associate that s/he was up for partner and that s/he would be a shoe-in.

Associate got promoted last year.

[sidesalad]

In my experience, a star senior associate essentially acts like a partner without being one, in terms of ownership mentality, anticipating issues or problems even when they make more work for that person, being laser-focused on the client's interests, etc. (but while also being the person who ensures that all of the trains are running on time behind the scenes). If you are a star associate, while not all partners are the best at showing appreciation, you will know it (even in biglaw people truly appreciate when they have good people beneath them to whom they can pass off work without worrying about whether and how it is going to get done).

[Anonymous User]

As someone that has been called the star associate by other associates it is a combination of hard and soft things.

Hard things include: bonus being 1.5x market at a lockstep firm with numerous partners dropping by to confirm that it is “enough”, billing 2300-2400 hours a year on the either the most high profile matters or the matters in which the partner is trying to cultivate a long term relationship (I’ve had a partner try to staff me on a less important matter and the head of the group calling me and saying I don’t need to do that “useless” matter) and your review having comments regarding that you are the future partner of the group etc.

Soft things include and are more of a tell tale sign: being invited to every marketing event and the partners making an effort to get you involved (including flying to numerous events), always being asked to give presentations to the junior associates/summers, partners dropping by to chat constantly and checking in to make sure you are “ok and enjoying the work”, being invited to numerous dinners with partners and their spouses and your spouse, partners constantly asking for your thoughts on other associates (including if someone should be given the “talk” or a second chance), partners trying to get you involved with other groups to build support for your partnership chances, always being the person when your group needs someone to represent the group at a firm event you are asked to name a few.

[Anonymous User]

As someone that has been called the star associate by other associates it is a combination of hard and soft things.

Hard things include: bonus being 1.5x market at a lockstep firm with numerous partners dropping by to confirm that it is “enough”, billing 2300-2400 hours a year on the either the most high profile matters or the matters in which the partner is trying to cultivate a long term relationship (I’ve had a partner try to staff me on a less important matter and the head of the group calling me and saying I don’t need to do that “useless” matter) and your review having comments regarding that you are the future partner of the group etc.

Soft things include and are more of a tell tale sign: being invited to every marketing event and the partners making an effort to get you involved (including flying to numerous events), always being asked to give presentations to the junior associates/summers, partners dropping by to chat constantly and checking in to make sure you are “ok and enjoying the work”, being invited to numerous dinners with partners and their spouses and your spouse, partners constantly asking for your thoughts on other associates (including if someone should be given the “talk” or a second chance), partners trying to get you involved with other groups to build support for your partnership chances, always being the person when your group needs someone to represent the group at a firm event you are asked to name a few.

This is good insight and true to what I have seen as well. Because of predetermined class year-based salary, a general wariness of openly playing favorites at many firms, and a desire to ensure that all associates can do the work, the favoritism tends to be subtle and behind the scenes more than anything. Otherwise, the entire dynamics of the group could be destroyed. That being said, the star associates are obvious to everyone. You’ll know if it’s you. If you’re not sure, it’s not you. (Adapting the old poker adage.)

Also, I think what separates star associates from everyone else is not brilliant legal insight or even hard work but competence. Partners like associates who can competently do the work and they won’t have to worry or even think about it. The work product is excellent, the client is happy, the team is well-managed. For star senior associates that means handling entire matters effectively. Hard work is part of that but lots of people work hard and many people don’t do great work for 2700 hours a year.

[Anonymous User]

Lots of good insight in this thread. One thing I'll add is that the "star associates" are often not the very highest billers. The guy or girl who is billing 2200 hours year in and year out with tons of substantive work might be a star associate; the associate in the same class year who is billing 3000 hours a year running document productions and writing useless research memos is not.

[objctnyrhnr]

The above doesn't really respond to the question about how star associates are treated, but is more about how to become one.

In my opinion, partners will show it in different ways. Some won't say anything at all if you do a great job, some will be super appreciative and help mold your career and bring you up the ladder. You'll probably know if a partner is looking out for you in this way because these are generally good people and will be the appreciative ones.

So, it will greatly vary across partners. That said, I can almost guarantee that if you are a star associate, you will often be very, very busy. Certain partners will potentially lookout for you when you take the occasional vacation so that you can get some mental breaks and come back working hard (these are the great partners to work for and are few and far between), but no one is going to handicap your hours in order to keep you around because that would also hurt you in the bonus category.

Great point and apologies for answering the wrong question/reading the OP too quickly. Nevertheless, statement stands (IMO).

[Anonymous User]

As someone that has been called the star associate by other associates it is a combination of hard and soft things.

Hard things include: bonus being 1.5x market at a lockstep firm with numerous partners dropping by to confirm that it is “enough”, billing 2300-2400 hours a year on the either the most high profile matters or the matters in which the partner is trying to cultivate a long term relationship (I’ve had a partner try to staff me on a less important matter and the head of the group calling me and saying I don’t need to do that “useless” matter) and your review having comments regarding that you are the future partner of the group etc.

Soft things include and are more of a tell tale sign: being invited to every marketing event and the partners making an effort to get you involved (including flying to numerous events), always being asked to give presentations to the junior associates/summers, partners dropping by to chat constantly and checking in to make sure you are “ok and enjoying the work”, being invited to numerous dinners with partners and their spouses and your spouse, partners constantly asking for your thoughts on other associates (including if someone should be given the “talk” or a second chance), partners trying to get you involved with other groups to build support for your partnership chances, always being the person when your group needs someone to represent the group at a firm event you are asked to name a few.

I was treated very similarly to you (in regards to the softs).

However, I think a lot of that just has to do with your relationship with a prominent partner and less to do with “star associate” status.

I was included in pitches, asked to present everywhere, asked to co-write everything, went to dinner with partners and family, was flown to other offices to cross-sell, etc. The partners I worked with would tell me about firm finances, pending (important) lateral hires and interview: in key markets being conducted, discuss firm politics and how to navigate, and other things.

I was gently kicked to the curb last year even after all of that.

This is just to say that some of those benefits you mentioned aren’t just limited to star associates.

But I think if you have the combo of good work product, high-ish hours, and the “softs,” you’re a prized associate.

[beeoBoop]

As someone that has been called the star associate by other associates it is a combination of hard and soft things.

Hard things include: bonus being 1.5x market at a lockstep firm with numerous partners dropping by to confirm that it is “enough”, billing 2300-2400 hours a year on the either the most high profile matters or the matters in which the partner is trying to cultivate a long term relationship (I’ve had a partner try to staff me on a less important matter and the head of the group calling me and saying I don’t need to do that “useless” matter) and your review having comments regarding that you are the future partner of the group etc.

Soft things include and are more of a tell tale sign: being invited to every marketing event and the partners making an effort to get you involved (including flying to numerous events), always being asked to give presentations to the junior associates/summers, partners dropping by to chat constantly and checking in to make sure you are “ok and enjoying the work”, being invited to numerous dinners with partners and their spouses and your spouse, partners constantly asking for your thoughts on other associates (including if someone should be given the “talk” or a second chance), partners trying to get you involved with other groups to build support for your partnership chances, always being the person when your group needs someone to represent the group at a firm event you are asked to name a few.

I was treated very similarly to you (in regards to the softs).

However, I think a lot of that just has to do with your relationship with a prominent partner and less to do with “star associate” status.

I was included in pitches, asked to present everywhere, asked to co-write everything, went to dinner with partners and family, was flown to other offices to cross-sell, etc. The partners I worked with would tell me about firm finances, pending (important) lateral hires and interview: in key markets being conducted, discuss firm politics and how to navigate, and other things.

I was gently kicked to the curb last year even after all of that.

This is just to say that some of those benefits you mentioned aren’t just limited to star associates.

But I think if you have the combo of good work product, high-ish hours, and the “softs,” you’re a prized associate.

Any insight into what happened? Seems surprising given how involved you were

[Anonymous User]

I echo the sentiment that if you are a star associate, you would know it. Partners will often tell you straight up, but you would also know because other associates would hint at it. For example, an associate looking to ask you a question may start the conversation, “I have a question about XYZ, and important partner told me to talk to you because you rocked it for him/her before.” Or, in conversations with partners, the partner may complain about another associate who screwed something up and imply that you obviously wouldn’t do it that way because you’re awesome.

I have also been on the giving end of such feedback to other associates in the appropriate context. I’ve told senior associates that, I’m sure you’re already aware but the firm thinks you’re indispensable to this massive team. Or something like that, when they’re having a hard time.

[Anonymous User]

I think the only way I'd be comfortable in "knowing" it is if (a) the managing partner/biggest rainmaker always wants you on their stuff, or (b) like one of the anons, you are being given above-normal bonuses for the firm, or are being involved in firing decisions.

Also, it's important to realize that the skills required for being a "star" junior are different than being a star midlevel, or senior. While a lot of the people good at being juniors may also be good at being seniors, that's not necessarily universally true.

I'm in lit, and I was probably a star second/third year in my office. I had a feeder clerkship and was probably the best writer in my class-year. Share partners wanted me writing/researching whatever their difficult brief was. I got little windows into office politics, with share partners signaling that I shouldn't work for XYZ powerless/non-share/not-that-good person -- "let some other associate do that." This isn't to say I was out-and-out the best associate (some others could manage discovery/experts/deps far better than I could, and those people were known and valued too), but they let me know I was good.

As I've aged into a midlevel, though, I've realized the skills now required are different. It's still good to be smart and good at law/writing/researching. But organization, delegating and managing both up and down, keeping up with an increased email volume, knowing a lot more of the pieces of the case -- these are challenging in different ways. Totally possible I'll age into a "hey, you've had a good run, let's get you to V100 down the street" someday.

[UnfrozenCaveman]

Do you ever wonder if you're simply just a competent associate in a hot market for laterals and all the other stuff is just manipulation to keep you there?

[Anonymous User]

Do you ever wonder if you're simply just a competent associate in a hot market for laterals and all the other stuff is just manipulation to keep you there?

Always. Being a star associate is necessary to become a partner but it is certainly not a guarantee. I don’t think most people go out to maliciously deceive, but they can’t predict partnership prospects in the future with any certainty. So much could happen—global recession, downturn in your practice, firm finances...

[Anonymous User]

As someone that has been called the star associate by other associates it is a combination of hard and soft things.

Hard things include: bonus being 1.5x market at a lockstep firm with numerous partners dropping by to confirm that it is “enough”, billing 2300-2400 hours a year on the either the most high profile matters or the matters in which the partner is trying to cultivate a long term relationship (I’ve had a partner try to staff me on a less important matter and the head of the group calling me and saying I don’t need to do that “useless” matter) and your review having comments regarding that you are the future partner of the group etc.

Soft things include and are more of a tell tale sign: being invited to every marketing event and the partners making an effort to get you involved (including flying to numerous events), always being asked to give presentations to the junior associates/summers, partners dropping by to chat constantly and checking in to make sure you are “ok and enjoying the work”, being invited to numerous dinners with partners and their spouses and your spouse, partners constantly asking for your thoughts on other associates (including if someone should be given the “talk” or a second chance), partners trying to get you involved with other groups to build support for your partnership chances, always being the person when your group needs someone to represent the group at a firm event you are asked to name a few.

I was treated very similarly to you (in regards to the softs).

However, I think a lot of that just has to do with your relationship with a prominent partner and less to do with “star associate” status.

I was included in pitches, asked to present everywhere, asked to co-write everything, went to dinner with partners and family, was flown to other offices to cross-sell, etc. The partners I worked with would tell me about firm finances, pending (important) lateral hires and interview: in key markets being conducted, discuss firm politics and how to navigate, and other things.

I was gently kicked to the curb last year even after all of that.

This is just to say that some of those benefits you mentioned aren’t just limited to star associates.

But I think if you have the combo of good work product, high-ish hours, and the “softs,” you’re a prized associate.

Any insight into what happened? Seems surprising given how involved you were

My firm had a very very strict hours cutoff (ie no bonus or raise) and I missed it two years in a row. I got a small bonus and standard class raise both years I missed it, so, obviously I just took their kindness for granted.

[Pulsar]

How did it go down/where did you go after? Just curious, since you mentioned it was "gentle" exit.

[s1m4]

Why bill so much if its a free market system? Is it that you are just given stuff that you can't turn down work? Whenever I'm on pace for ~2,200 I stop seeking out work and seem to comfortably land between 2 and 2.1k each year, which is fine; is it because youre actively seeking out the extra bonus?