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Fired 6 weeks into shit law last week. I think I was not learning fast enough and/or was billing clients for shit I wasn’t supposed to. They said I wasn’t working out for them.

This is a small (4-5 attorneys) ID firm, and I was working 11 actual hours a day, including 5 hours on Saturdays but ended up billing 7-8 hours only per day and on weekends 2 hours (because of what insurance is going to pay, as I was told). Even those hours were being cut, and I got canned overall. The salary was in the 55-65k range. Had a minimum bailable hour requirement per week too, but how the fuck do I meet it, if I’m required to bill so little for something that takes me longer to do?

I thought I could actually learn some shit here, but boy was I worn out just 3 weeks in. I was not even given a caseload, but did shit for others, like pretty much doc review shit, now that I think about it, e.g., answering discovery

T25-45 grad median. Graduated last year. First legal job. Couldn’t find work, so took this up. In a medium sized city.

Tell me what do I do? Please help me and tell me that this TTT was not worth it? They had all TTT grads there as well.

I feel like crap and am about to vomit thinking about this disgusting shit! Seems like a setup tbh. Told to leave the premise within 10 minutes and turn over everything I have work related, in a polite manner, however. Could tell shit was coming though because the rest of the attorneys did not make me comfortable even being there.

My experience with my two ID firms have been very positive. Seems like you just got stuck with a shitty firm. I was given a case load on the first day at both of my ID firms. And both firms were very willing to teach. My advice is to look for another opportunity. As far as "shit law" is concerned, not exactly sure what you're referring to. Auto work? no fault? ID is not just auto.

Op here,


Mine was Auto. Were your hours as ridiculous as mine? I was also on a trial period, so no benefits kicked in. I’m assuming they have had shit here before, so before they really put someone in as full time, they like to give them a trial period.

Sounds like you dodged a bullet to be honest. I work in ID and don't love it - the hours are crap and the bills get cut constantly ("can't bill for this, can't bill for that"). I would say network your butt off and see what happens - median at a T25-45 should be solid at most firms, especially since you have some experience now. Regardless, sorry this happened - things will work out (who knows, this may have been a blessing in disguise since it sounds like the firm was less than ideal).

OP here,


Hoping this doesn’t have any negative repercussions on me finding a job. I mean getting fired from shitlaw just fucks with your head, making you think if you couldn’t make the cut in shitlaw, how good of a lawyer am I actually or will I be, even though Ive been licensed for about >1 year.

Also kind of makes you wonder if you can handle a midsized law job or another office setting environment.

Anonymous User wrote:OP here,


Hoping this doesn’t have any negative repercussions on me finding a job. I mean getting fired from shitlaw just fucks with your head, making you think if you couldn’t make the cut in shitlaw, how good of a lawyer am I actually or will I be, even though Ive been licensed for about >1 year.

Also kind of makes you wonder if you can handle a midsized law job or another office setting environment.

Don't beat yourself up. While I can't speak to your exact experience, in my experience many ID law firms - as well as any other types of small businesses - are run by real pricks who gaslight you on purpose.

Sounds like a blessing in disguise.

Just keep applying and you’ll find something better.

Does it really sound like a blessing in disguise or that I dodged a bullet, as some have mentioned?

I want to hear what this is based off? Was it a shit job to begin with in the first place? I mean I’ve looked further into it on TLS, and it seems like basically I was working BIGLAW hours for a SHITLAW salary, on top of that it was auto accidents, insurance defense with minimums on billing that could not be extended. For example, being forced to complete a motion to compel (MTC) in 45 minutes, .8, and only billing .8 for it even if it took me longer. In other words, the .8 was the actual time that counted towards my weekly billable requirement, not the actual time it took me. A MTC can easily take me 2+ hours on a large case. I just couldn’t do it in .8 time just because that is what insurance would be willing to pay for. I guess the firm had shitty templates for even MTCs that you would cut and paste onto, so you could get it done in .8. Still though, it could still take at least 2 hours to draft a decent MTC even with a shitty cut and paste template. This really felt like a fucking true ID Mill.

Also, I would never meet my minimum weekly billable requirement of 40 if that’s the case. Seems like that was the case, and I was let go because of it I think. I seemed to have over billed on things I was not allowed to. But I mean there was still a hugggeee profit realized from the shit salary I was getting and what the partner was getting from the insurance companies.

I guess I’m interested in hearing more about this. I just want to know that I’m not crazy for saying all of this. Im getting over this though and thanks for the support.

OP, I think what people are trying to say (myself included) is that you can find better "shitlaw" or smaller law firm jobs that pay about the same (possibly less) but have better hours. Working for an ID firm is the worst for the reasons you mentioned. You can't bill for the actual time it takes you to complete things because the carrier won't pay for it so your billables get slashed. Oftentimes ID firms try to reel you in by saying a lowish starting salary that's pretty comparable to small law BUT they tell you all about ALL the bonuses that you can make on top of the base. What they don't tell you is that you are required to basically bill 2,400 a year (even though in an interview they might stress they have no billable requirements - yeah right lol). Overall, people here think it's a blessing because you can honestly likely find a job that pays the same base, if not a little less, and have it be so much more worth it - i.e. the hours, QOL, people, etc. are most likely much better. Don't get roped into ID firms that give you a gimmicky sell, that's how they get you. Good luck on finding a new job OP!

It's never good to get fired but the prior firm does sound like a terrible place. Don't shy away from ID universally though. Insurance is such a huge component of litigation these days. For example, even the "big law" firms doing employment (e.g., litter) accept of ID work. There are many ID firms where you can get good experience and work on interesting cases (not auto liability) albeit the comp will never match firms that can command the higher billing rates.

Op here,

Thanks to the above two posters for the advice. Also, yes I understand ID universally is not terrible as well as realize the comp will never be as good no matter how much “wiggle room” they allow you with billing.

It’s all a business at the end of the day right. The more work they can get out of you at these mills, the greater the profit. When you go over minimums although it shouldn’t really effect them in theory, but that other time you went over could’ve been spent on drafting some other thing, which they would’ve gotten paid for lol whereas larger firms can cut your billing without it really affecting them as much and it not counting against your yearly required billables whereas ID firms (true shit ID firms) barley get paid anything... $165-225 (even that gets cut in hours as far as getting compensated for it), that they have to be strict with your biliables and your time gets cut and you end up working biglaw hours at times just to get the bare minimum required billables.


XD