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Is it normal to have a minimum billable requirement as a SA? Also, how many billables do people normally get per day as an SA? I am told I need to bill well over 100 a month - is this normal? My billing is low because I'm learning as I go and I'm nervous because I can't bill for a lot of work I do to get caught up on stuff/learn things

That's not normal at all, especially because there's no way in hell the firm is billing your work to the client.

Are you sure they're calculating your billables the same way they would for a junior associate? As in, they're not letting you count any of your training, etc.?

cavalier1138 wrote:That's not normal at all, especially because there's no way in hell the firm is billing your work to the client.

Are you sure they're calculating your billables the same way they would for a junior associate? As in, they're not letting you count any of your training, etc.?

They are billing the clients for my work, which is why I can't bill for training - note: this isn't a biglaw job.

Anonymous User wrote:

cavalier1138 wrote:That's not normal at all, especially because there's no way in hell the firm is billing your work to the client.

Are you sure they're calculating your billables the same way they would for a junior associate? As in, they're not letting you count any of your training, etc.?

They are billing the clients for my work, which is why I can't bill for training - note: this isn't a biglaw job.

Oh, then I have no idea what's standard practice for firms of whatever-type-of-firm-you're-at. But in case you're under-reporting you're billables because you think you're taking too long: don't. Report the actual time you spend working on stuff, and let the managing attorneys cut hours on the bill accordingly.

Anonymous User wrote:

cavalier1138 wrote:That's not normal at all, especially because there's no way in hell the firm is billing your work to the client.

Are you sure they're calculating your billables the same way they would for a junior associate? As in, they're not letting you count any of your training, etc.?

They are billing the clients for my work, which is why I can't bill for training - note: this isn't a biglaw job.

I'm curious how they present that on statements to clients. How big is the firm?

There's around 50 attorneys

[Not OP] Some SA billables do go out, depends on the circumstances and the client. For example, on one litigation matter my firm handled, we came to an agreement with the client to allow us to bill them SA time on what amounted to a separate contingency (i.e., if we win they pay the SA billables, if we lose the SA billables are excluded but the rest stand).

My advice is to fully account for your time, most likely by billing the full amount of time you spend on a matter to that matter. If for some reason you are doing work that you think cannot be fairly attributed to your work on a billable matter, then you should record the amount of time you spend on that work in the timekeeping system for the relevant non-billable matter. In no event should you be working and not have your work-time reflected in your time entries.

I wanted to assure you that you shouldn't be worrying about billables, but I suddenly realized that I'm in an undesirable place at my firm right now because I didn't do enough work as a summer. You may not be billing a great deal, but you should certainly try to do as much as you can, even if we're talking marketing or pro bono.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

cavalier1138 wrote:That's not normal at all, especially because there's no way in hell the firm is billing your work to the client.

Are you sure they're calculating your billables the same way they would for a junior associate? As in, they're not letting you count any of your training, etc.?

They are billing the clients for my work, which is why I can't bill for training - note: this isn't a biglaw job.

I'm curious how they present that on statements to clients. How big is the firm?

Probably as a law clerk or paralegal-sounding position. When I worked at a small firm during law school (much smaller than op’s), my work was billed out as a law clerk (hours were cut significantly, and there was no billable expectation whatsoever).

cavalier1138 wrote:That's not normal at all, especially because there's no way in hell the firm is billing your work to the client.

My V10 bills out most SA work to clients. The rate is (relatively) low but they are generally paying it.

Anonymous User wrote:Is it normal to have a minimum billable requirement as a SA? Also, how many billables do people normally get per day as an SA? I am told I need to bill well over 100 a month - is this normal? My billing is low because I'm learning as I go and I'm nervous because I can't bill for a lot of work I do to get caught up on stuff/learn things

I’m on the summer committee at my V10, I can assure you that we don’t look at billable hours (we’re more concerned with trying to source enough work on our end).

I'm also on my biglaw firm's recruitment committee that evaluates summer associates - we never look at billables. I do look to see they have worked on a good amount of projects, i.e. they don't just have one big assignment that has taken up all of their time. Even then, we recommend they diversify their experience over the rest of the summer. In other words, it's not the billables I care about but the fact they are trying different areas of law and getting a good flavor of what our firm has to offer.

Sounds like a bad place.

If you’re already stressing out as a SA about billable hours, then I would run if you literally have any other option.

I "billed" about 20 hours a week, which includes summer CLEs, training programs, etc. Apparently, that was even above average at my firm.

For what it's worth, every assignment done by a summer associate, is either completely re-done by a first year or concurrently done by a first year. Would worry much more about showing up, being on time, responding to emails, etc.

biglaw_advice wrote:I'm also on my biglaw firm's recruitment committee that evaluates summer associates - we never look at billables. I do look to see they have worked on a good amount of projects, i.e. they don't just have one big assignment that has taken up all of their time. Even then, we recommend they diversify their experience over the rest of the summer. In other words, it's not the billables I care about but the fact they are trying different areas of law and getting a good flavor of what our firm has to offer.

I've been recommending this to the summers. I didn't do this and got fucked when it came time for practice group assignments.

Anonymous User wrote:I "billed" about 20 hours a week, which includes summer CLEs, training programs, etc. Apparently, that was even above average at my firm.

For what it's worth, every assignment done by a summer associate, is either completely re-done by a first year or concurrently done by a first year. Would worry much more about showing up, being on time, responding to emails, etc.

See the problem is that I was told I had to bill well north of 100 billables each month - I manage around 20/25 a week right now. I guess I was just more curious about how common it is to be told to meet a certain minimum this early on since we’re only SAs.

Also, I don’t mind billables - I just don’t like that I can’t bill for a lot right now (and was explicitly told I can’t bill for a lot of the things we need to learn just to complete a task) and I’m just worried I’m working a lot of hours compared to billables rn. I’m sure it gets easier once you “know” how to do stuff. The learning curve is super steep, which I assume is what most 1st year associates feel. I guess I just expected to “learn” this summer more than focus on the sheer amount of billables since I can’t bill for learning.

EDIT - Apologies, didn't mean to post as anon

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I "billed" about 20 hours a week, which includes summer CLEs, training programs, etc. Apparently, that was even above average at my firm.

For what it's worth, every assignment done by a summer associate, is either completely re-done by a first year or concurrently done by a first year. Would worry much more about showing up, being on time, responding to emails, etc.

See the problem is that I was told I had to bill well north of 100 billables each month - I manage around 20/25 a week right now. I guess I was just more curious about how common it is to be told to meet a certain minimum this early on since we’re only SAs.

Also, I don’t mind billables - I just don’t like that I can’t bill for a lot right now (and was explicitly told I can’t bill for a lot of the things we need to learn just to complete a task) and I’m just worried I’m working a lot of hours compared to billables rn. I’m sure it gets easier once you “know” how to do stuff. The learning curve is super steep, which I assume is what most 1st year associates feel. I guess I just expected to “learn” this summer more than focus on the sheer amount of billables since I can’t bill for learning.

Understood, but even as a first, second or third year, you often have to do a lot of background learning to accomplish a task. Pretty sure every deal I've been on has had some aspect that required "learning how to do it" first, before actually being able to do it. That doesn't go away as your career progresses, just what you have to learn changes. I would find it somewhat concerning that the firm doesn't allow you to bill for that.

At the two firms I summered at, if partners felt the “learning” was getting out of hand or that client protested about extended hours, partners would either negotiate a lower rate for those hours or have the associate bill to an internal code not billed to client but is creditable as billable internally.

I don’t think it’s quite kosher to not give credit for learning on the job at all.