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So having finished my last test, I am confident I shat the bed this time around.

I'm at a lower T13, from New York and for many personal reasons want to return after school, interested in corporate biglaw in New York but open to revising that goal down at this point, 3.5 GPA last term (two As, two Bs, one B+ so I know how to get an A in theory at least) and the only question this time is whether it'll be bottom of the curve low or catastrophically low.

Short story is that I cut off healthy habits for school this semester in an effort to do better and wound up damaging my health to the point where my state negated any law I learned. Now in the unlikely case I'm being dramatic and I manage to come up with at least 3.2 average I still think I have some shot the traditional way, but if its closer to 3.0 or under it, what can I do?

My plan:
1) talk to career services about Plans B-Z although they seem loathe to do this until grades come out as many people are merely neurotic (I'd love for this to be in my head but I doubt it)
2) Apply to every single firm taking rolling applications now and hope to skate by as far as possible before spring grades in case someone takes a shine to me
3) When I get grades, bid conservatively at OCI - people in my school seem to hate New York and see it as a last resort so I may luck out as we have good placement
4) Set up as many networking meetings as possible (have been going to receptions etc with firms I was going to target, though I don't know if any of those save possibly a couple are in the cards anymore)
5) Mass mail everyone in NYC. As a very obviously "New York" guy in terms of culture fit (if you know what I mean - and it's not that I'm a huge Yankees fan) I doubt I'm going to get a hot reception anywhere people go to church on Sundays regardless of effort and I am quite averse to living anywhere but a big city - preferably east coast.
6) Try to get in the game for clerkships
Wasn't my original goal and not super likely but seem to work for some.

Please let me know what to add/subtract from the above.

re: "use the search button" - I read dozens of threads but it seems like they're mostly 2010-2014 and hiring has picked up since then.

If anyone has advice with:
1) How much can you schmooze your way past bad grades?
I'm pretty personable (this post doesn't show it became I'm utterly exhausted and demoralized) and this has worked well for me in my previous job experience and is likely a big reason I got into this school with my college GPA (nothing impressive - a year each of paralegal work at firms at a small law, midlaw, and high quality specialty boutique none of which I am not going to be able to get due to barely any junior associate hiring at all three). My ideal would be a market paying NYC biglaw firm regardless of prestige, or a path that can eventually lead to biglaw but beggars can't be choosers.

2) How/whether to address the GPA fall?
I don't have an excuse - I merely overextended myself in a foolish way because I'm stubborn and destroyed my health temporarily (my immune system is shot to the point I've been on antibiotics three times this year but nothing deadly, just generally bad). Obviously not something I want to advertise. Is there an appropriately humble way to move past it quickly? I imagine I'll be asked so I should have some answer that's not "Oh trust me I knew this stuff but I just couldn't think straight".

3) How to pitch myself?
Should I target specialty groups? I have one that I have experience in that seems to not be desirable to most 1Ls and am the 1L rep and incoming treasurer for that specialty's student group, so I seem to know more than most law students do about it at least. Any tips on approach in general?

4) What sort of 2L summer is making the best of failing to get an SA at a V100 firm with a good offer rate?
Self-explanatory. My original goal was to do corporate work and, depending on my tolerance for the schedule, either keep on that path or work in-house. Open to big adjustments.

5) How much would doing great 2L make me more marketable?
Feel free to mention that I'm too dumb to do so if that makes you feel better, but please entertain the "what if" after that. I'm a child refugee who grew up in a socioeconomically disadvantaged area (I believe that's the term these days) and overcame a lot to get to this point so I'm comfortable considering the possibility that I can at get lucky/pull myself together one more time - I just don't know if it's discounted 80% or 99% compared to 1L performance. I know a guy who went from a V90-100 to Cravath at 3L OCI so clearly it works once in a blue moon.

6) Is JD advantage a thing?
I know compliance would fall into this category, any other ideas for jobs - whether corporate law or corporate in general? Government?

Open to any and all advice. Thank you for contributing and sorry for the insanely long post.

I think this all makes sense. I would just note that (unfortunately) I don't think it matters whether you have NY ties. NY is by far the largest legal market in the United States; many/most lawyers here do not have "ties" to the city. Sell yourself, not your New York-ness. If the person you're speaking to is not a New York native, they'll just think it's weird how much you're emphasizing it.

LBJ's Hair wrote:I think this all makes sense. I would just note that (unfortunately) I don't think it matters whether you have NY ties. NY is by far the largest legal market in the United States; many/most lawyers here do not have "ties" to the city. Sell yourself, not your New York-ness. If the person you're speaking to is not a New York native, they'll just think it's weird how much you're emphasizing it.

Good call. Thank you.

I don't necessarily think all hope is lost. I am at a T20 and finished slightly below median. Didn't get anything at OCI, but was able to secure a biglaw job (preferred market, not preferred practice group) by the end of my 2L Fall. I don't have a ton of advice, because my experience involved me using really strong ties to a non-NYC market to secure a job. But, I can say that in any interviews you do have, don't immediately apologize for your grades. I did this and its gotten back to me that it was a mistake. They either have your transcript in front of them or it is easily available. If an interviewer wants to know about your grades, they will ask. I wish I had known this going into OCI. Best of Luck!

I think all that you're considering is good. I don't think you're in trouble though. It's pretty difficult end up with a flat 3.0 at a T13. Even then, you'd still be at 3.25, which isn't worth panicking about. If it really is that bad then, I'd say:

1. Schmoozing is schmoozing. If both parties seem to be having a good time, don't spoil the mood with talks of grades.

2. See 1, but also read the room--whether it's at an informational or actual interview.

3. Edit: I don't think things are bad enough until you actually get grades to start limiting your options to specialty areas to try to get any biglaw job.

4. No idea.

5. Assuming the economy holds steady, if you do very well and you can use your courseworks and ECs to show that you're interested in a particular practice area, I'd say it's at least of moderate help, but stay away from the stuff that a lot of people default to like M&A and try to aim for some less sought after but growing areas like cybersecurity, bankruptcy, or some regulatory practices.

6. No idea.

BrainsyK wrote:I think all that you're considering is good. I don't think you're in trouble though. It's pretty difficult end up with a flat 3.0 at a T13. Even then, you'd still be at 3.25, which isn't worth panicking about. If it really is that bad then, I'd say:

1. Schmoozing is schmoozing. If both parties seem to be having a good time, don't spoil the mood with talks of grades.

2. See 1, but also read the room--whether it's at an informational or actual interview.

3. Edit: I don't think things are bad enough until you actually get grades to start limiting your options to specialty areas to try to get any biglaw job.

4. No idea.

5. Assuming the economy holds steady, if you do very well and you can use your courseworks and ECs to show that you're interested in a particular practice area, I'd say it's at least of moderate help, but stay away from the stuff that a lot of people default to like M&A and try to aim for some less sought after but growing areas like cybersecurity, bankruptcy, or some regulatory practices.

6. No idea.

Thanks, that's helpful. Luckily my focus/EC specialty is in one of the areas you mentioned so I was on the right track.

And as far as grades go, I guess I'm outing myself but let's just say it's less hard at my school than on average to be below 3.0.

I was decently below median and received a few biglaw job offers. Never once was I asked about my grades (obviously I did not waste my time with grade-sensitive firms). Just use your personality as a weapon and show that you are an intelligent person who works hard. Don't assume any ending is guaranteed and just hustle to develop connections with associates/firms.

I also want to emphasize that OP doesn't even have any of his second-semester grades back yet! Law school grades can be surprising. I've gotten a number of surprisingly low grades. I've gotten an almost equal number of surprisingly high grades. It's hard to predict due to the curve. It's entirely possible OP actually did very badly in an objective sense, but that everyone else also did very badly due to the exams being very hard/the professor not teaching well/etc.

So any panicking at this point is, IMO, premature. And in any case, from a T13 I don't think there's any need to panic short of a sub-3.0 GPA (and even there will almost certainly be fine in the end with enough hustling).

QContinuum wrote:I also want to emphasize that OP doesn't even have any of his second-semester grades back yet! Law school grades can be surprising. I've gotten a number of surprisingly low grades. I've gotten an almost equal number of surprisingly high grades. It's hard to predict due to the curve. It's entirely possible OP actually did very badly in an objective sense, but that everyone else also did very badly due to the exams being very hard/the professor not teaching well/etc.

So any panicking at this point is, IMO, premature. And in any case, from a T13 I don't think there's any need to panic short of a sub-3.0 GPA (and even there will almost certainly be fine in the end with enough hustling).

I understand that people are nervous and I was as well the first term (and got a smattering of various grades) but this is a step beyond that. I purposefully understated the degree of my illness as of present but I don't want to dissuade people from giving me advice on the basis that I'm just anxious.

OP, it’s really hard to get 3.0 for anyone who is capable of getting As. You will end up at least around median for 1L and I strongly suspect you’re looking at above median on cusp of top 1/3 even if you did a little worse than last semester. There is 80% of the class between an A and a B. There is basically no way to fall that hard unless you were taking the exam so sick you couldn’t finish them.

The advice is basically chill. Your situation didn’t really change much. At worst, you went from a long shot to Cravath to basically no shot but almost all of the biglaw is still open to you.

Just bid strategically.

icansortofmath wrote:OP, it’s really hard to get 3.0 for anyone who is capable of getting As. You will end up at least around median for 1L and I strongly suspect you’re looking at above median on cusp of top 1/3 even if you did a little worse than last semester. There is 80% of the class between an A and a B. There is basically no way to fall that hard unless you were taking the exam so sick you couldn’t finish them.

The advice is basically chill. Your situation didn’t really change much. At worst, you went from a long shot to Cravath to basically no shot but almost all of the biglaw is still open to you.

Just bid strategically.

This is exactly what happened. Despite getting a delay for exams on the insistence of student services, I still couldn’t get to the point where I could finish them.

The first exam before I realized this is going to be the lowest grade in the class - if the professor is merciful it’ll be a B- but he’s known by reputation for dipping lower.

For the rest, I imagine between B- and B at best. Maybe there’s one B+ in there but I doubt it.

You’re still fine even if you did as badly as you think (I doubt it. I’ve seen B and B- exams and they are REALLY bad) and end up just below median at a T14.

Just take care of your health, make a good OCI strategy, and practice random awkward coffee chats. You’re pretty much a lock for a market V100 offer as long as you bid well and don’t interview TOO badly.

icansortofmath wrote:You’re still fine even if you did as badly as you think (I doubt it. I’ve seen B and B- exams and they are REALLY bad) and end up just below median at a T14.

Just take care of your health, make a good OCI strategy, and practice random awkward coffee chats. You’re pretty much a lock for a market V100 offer as long as you bid well and don’t interview TOO badly.

Thanks. That actually makes me feel better. I have a lot of interview and networking experience so I think I'll do alright.

And you're right - I remember my B exam from CivPro during exam review. It was a dumpster fire. Literally three or four paragraphs at a time crossed out and 2/3 of the answers premised on a fundamental misunderstanding of both the law and the precedent. And that's considering my school has a 10% B- and below requirement, so at least half a dozen people did worse.

Even if I get all B-s, I hear from upperclassmen that puts me in an alright GPA position for a few firms I wanted and above the minimum for many of the rest.