Top Law Schools

Long story short: I misunderstood a research assignment and was not aware of the bluebook requirement, hence I turned in a research paper that lacked originality and a lot of citation mistakes (i have cited all the sources I cited, just not properly). My school’s honor code doesn’t require intent for plagiarism, so the sanction is plagiarism reportable to the bar + fail the class.

I am about to start my summer at a new york V20. How will it impact my summer / return offer and how should I work with HR? Of course i need to disclose it to them ASAP but how can I do so to cause minimum damage?

I’m not 100% certain you need to disclose it to HR?

Agree with above, but also, has your school already decided this was plagiarism? Schools generally don't want to get their students in trouble and you may be totally fine (and thus, don't tell HR).

But also, a little more info would be useful. Did you just copy-paste a bunch of stuff without quotation marks and list the sources at the end? That's kind of different than not having proper format or even lacking quotes but citing after each statement you took from someone else (still not great, but you may get a sympathetic ear).

Anonymous User wrote:I’m not 100% certain you need to disclose it to HR?

It is reportable to the bar, so the dean suggests I disclose to my employer. My guess is when Hr review my transcript by the end of summer and see that big F, they will raise questions. Better disclose it sooner than later?

Anonymous User wrote:Agree with above, but also, has your school already decided this was plagiarism? Schools generally don't want to get their students in trouble and you may be totally fine (and thus, don't tell HR).

But also, a little more info would be useful. Did you just copy-paste a bunch of stuff without quotation marks and list the sources at the end? That's kind of different than not having proper format or even lacking quotes but citing after each statement you took from someone else (still not great, but you may get a sympathetic ear).

It’s kind of like student prosecutors’ plea deal. I either accept it or bring it to the student court, which according to the dean usually gives even more severe sanctions.

No, it’s the second situation. I cited every article and have them all in my bibliography. I did not provide quotation marks in a number of places and only put a bluebook citation after each cited statement instead of each sentence.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I’m not 100% certain you need to disclose it to HR?

It is reportable to the bar, so the dean suggests I disclose to my employer. My guess is when Hr review my transcript by the end of summer and see that big F, they will raise questions. Better disclose it sooner than later?

Your employer might ask, they also might not...I wouldn’t affirmatively tell them. Also, the bar isn’t going to tell your employer what you disclose.

Anonymous User wrote:
No, it’s the second situation. I cited every article and have them all in my bibliography. I did not provide quotation marks in a number of places and only put a bluebook citation after each cited statement instead of each sentence.

I'm still not clear - did you copy verbatim without quotes? I don't think there's much you can do if that's the case.

If you paraphrased and, therefore, quotes wouldn't be necessary or appropriate, have you appealed this as far as you can? Have you requested help from the SBA? This could be a big deal later on, both as it impacts your GPA nad your bar admission. You should absolutely be challenging this to the fullest extent possible.

If you can afford it, you might even want counsel to represent you. After all, many of those imposing penalties are likely to be attorneys.

albanach wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:
No, it’s the second situation. I cited every article and have them all in my bibliography. I did not provide quotation marks in a number of places and only put a bluebook citation after each cited statement instead of each sentence.

I'm still not clear - did you copy verbatim without quotes? I don't think there's much you can do if that's the case.

If you paraphrased and, therefore, quotes wouldn't be necessary or appropriate, have you appealed this as far as you can? Have you requested help from the SBA? This could be a big deal later on, both as it impacts your GPA nad your bar admission. You should absolutely be challenging this to the fullest extent possible.

If you can afford it, you might even want counsel to represent you. After all, many of those imposing penalties are likely to be attorneys.

Yes I quoted verbatim with citations but without quotation marks for a few number of places. I paraphrased most of my quotes however.

I have retained a lawyer but he has not been responsive and proactive so far. The student prosecutors are a part of SBA. I have fought hard against them and the dean for months but the student prosecutors won’t accept anything less than the above sanction.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I’m not 100% certain you need to disclose it to HR?

It is reportable to the bar, so the dean suggests I disclose to my employer. My guess is when Hr review my transcript by the end of summer and see that big F, they will raise questions. Better disclose it sooner than later?

Your employer might ask, they also might not...I wouldn’t affirmatively tell them. Also, the bar isn’t going to tell your employer what you disclose.

Wouldn’t it be really bad if I tell them about the plagiarism only after they ask?

Anonymous User wrote: Yes I quoted verbatim with citations but without quotation marks for a few number of places. I paraphrased most of my quotes however.

I have retained a lawyer but he has not been responsive and proactive so far. The student prosecutors are a part of SBA. I have fought hard against them and the dean for months but the student prosecutors won’t accept anything less than the above sanction.

Okay, I expect this is going to be a tough case, but you need to get a new lawyer. Start there. Are there any faculty you are on good terms with? Can you get an attorney recommendation from someone.

You don't need a big-law attorney, you need someone with advocacy skills. Ask a classmate who's gunning to be a PD for a recommendation of a decent local criminal defense attorney or something. Meet them, show them what you did and what is alleged and ask if they have a strategy to help you. If you think they might have a strategy that's not already been tried and failed, hire them and give it a shot.

This sounds fishy. You “misunderstood the assignment,” so you dropped quotes and claimed them as your own writing?

I’m confused as to how you thought that is ok in any context.

Also, changing one or two words isn’t really paraphrasing.

I doubt the firm will care, though.

2013 wrote:This sounds fishy. You “misunderstood the assignment,” so you dropped quotes and claimed them as your own writing?

I’m confused as to how you thought that is ok in any context.

Also, changing one or two words isn’t really paraphrasing.

I doubt the firm will care, though.

Misunderstood the assignment as in I was not even aware of the bluebook requirement; most of my research assignments only required me to identify the source.
I can't even tell where you got the idea that I thought it is ok and how you made the assumption that I only changed one or two words when I paraphrased.

Why wouldn't the firm care? especially with an F on the transcript

Anonymous User wrote:

2013 wrote:This sounds fishy. You “misunderstood the assignment,” so you dropped quotes and claimed them as your own writing?

I’m confused as to how you thought that is ok in any context.

Also, changing one or two words isn’t really paraphrasing.

I doubt the firm will care, though.

Misunderstood the assignment as in I was not even aware of the bluebook requirement; most of my research assignments only required me to identify the source.
I can't even tell where you got the idea that I thought it is ok and how you made the assumption that I only changed one or two words when I paraphrased.

Why wouldn't the firm care? especially with an F on the transcript

First off, I don’t think the bluebook citation is the issue. You said that you dropped quotes. Maybe I’m misunderstanding what your issue is.

Also, my mistake for assuming you changed a few words. Usually when someone is caught for plagiarism, that seems to be the case.

I have heard of people cheating and failing courses and still keeping their biglaw jobs. Idk if it’s true, but the source seemed credible.

Anonymous User wrote:

2013 wrote:This sounds fishy. You “misunderstood the assignment,” so you dropped quotes and claimed them as your own writing?

I’m confused as to how you thought that is ok in any context.

Also, changing one or two words isn’t really paraphrasing.

I doubt the firm will care, though.

Misunderstood the assignment as in I was not even aware of the bluebook requirement; most of my research assignments only required me to identify the source.
I can't even tell where you got the idea that I thought it is ok and how you made the assumption that I only changed one or two words when I paraphrased.

Why wouldn't the firm care? especially with an F on the transcript

Any professionally responsible employer would care because this calls into question your judgement and is reflective of what your work product may be like (but TBH, if this was a law school course how would a reasonable 2l misunderstand the instruction as not having a BB requirement?)

OP, your posts do make it sound you more innocent than you probably are, but whatever that’s the past and the best you can do now is fight the charge.

Your best course of action is probably just admit to plagerism, no excuses, and promise the bar you will never do it again.

Anonymous User wrote:Your best course of action is probably just admit to plagerism, no excuses, and promise the bar you will never do it again.

My question is how do I disclose it to my employer?

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Your best course of action is probably just admit to plagerism, no excuses, and promise the bar you will never do it again.

My question is how do I disclose it to my employer?

Probably by telling them what you did and what sanction has been applied. I'd avoid any of the minimizing "I didn't mean to" stuff you've added here, because as others have noted, it just makes you sound even shadier.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Your best course of action is probably just admit to plagerism, no excuses, and promise the bar you will never do it again.

My question is how do I disclose it to my employer?

You don't unless you are asked. Or unless you are hoping to be unemployed. Then by all means go for it.

Also, ignore the anon. You should be fighting this. Really, what worse punishment could they even give you for attempting to exercise your due process rights?

Wubbles wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Your best course of action is probably just admit to plagerism, no excuses, and promise the bar you will never do it again.

My question is how do I disclose it to my employer?

You don't unless you are asked. Or unless you are hoping to be unemployed. Then by all means go for it.

Also, ignore the anon. You should be fighting this. Really, what worse punishment could they even give you for attempting to exercise your due process rights?

Expulsion?

Wubbles wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Your best course of action is probably just admit to plagerism, no excuses, and promise the bar you will never do it again.

My question is how do I disclose it to my employer?

You don't unless you are asked. Or unless you are hoping to be unemployed. Then by all means go for it.

Also, ignore the anon. You should be fighting this. Really, what worse punishment could they even give you for attempting to exercise your due process rights?

Assuming what the dean said was true, that student judges tend to be less sympathetic than the student prosecutors, than what's next in line than what I currently have is suspension.

cavalier1138 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Your best course of action is probably just admit to plagerism, no excuses, and promise the bar you will never do it again.

My question is how do I disclose it to my employer?

Probably by telling them what you did and what sanction has been applied. I'd avoid any of the minimizing "I didn't mean to" stuff you've added here, because as others have noted, it just makes you sound even shadier.

Do I tell them proactively or only when they ask?

Anonymous User wrote:

Wubbles wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Your best course of action is probably just admit to plagerism, no excuses, and promise the bar you will never do it again.

My question is how do I disclose it to my employer?

You don't unless you are asked. Or unless you are hoping to be unemployed. Then by all means go for it.

Also, ignore the anon. You should be fighting this. Really, what worse punishment could they even give you for attempting to exercise your due process rights?

Assuming what the dean said was true, that student judges tend to be less sympathetic than the student prosecutors, than what's next in line than what I currently have is suspension.

You should fight this in the student court. The plea sanction sounds severe. An honor code violation and fail could really derail you. I wouldn't listen to the people who say your employer won't care. You're not going to be punished for fighting it.

I don't think any of us are in a good position to advise OP re: whether they should accept the plea deal or not. First, and most importantly, none of us are familiar with the process at OP's school. It's possible OP's Dean is merely trying to intimidate OP into accepting the deal so they stop bothering the administration. It's also possible OP's Dean is entirely right to warn OP about the student judges favoring harsh punishments. We simply don't know enough to advise OP re: the risk/reward calculus for fighting this further. Second, we don't have all the facts. Based on what OP has written, there's a wide spectrum from relatively minor plagiarism (say, only one or two sentences that were copied verbatim without quotes, with everything else being paraphrased) to "holy Batman! how could OP possibly have thought this was okay?" (say, OP copied entire paragraphs verbatim without quotes). If the former, rejecting the plea deal might be the best option; if the latter, OP really can't do much beyond accepting the deal, demonstrating full acceptance and remorse, and throwing themselves on the mercy of their employer and bar C&F.

In short, I think it's reckless and irresponsible for us to advise OP whether to fight the charge or accept the plea deal.

I agree with the posters above who've advised OP to hire a better lawyer. I'd plump for a C&F lawyer, honestly, because as some posters have pointed out, how this is resolved could very well impact OP's ability to be admitted to the bar down the road.

QContinuum wrote:I don't think any of us are in a good position to advise OP re: whether they should accept the plea deal or not. First, and most importantly, none of us are familiar with the process at OP's school. It's possible OP's Dean is merely trying to intimidate OP into accepting the deal so they stop bothering the administration. It's also possible OP's Dean is entirely right to warn OP about the student judges favoring harsh punishments. We simply don't know enough to advise OP re: the risk/reward calculus for fighting this further. Second, we don't have all the facts. Based on what OP has written, there's a wide spectrum from relatively minor plagiarism (say, only one or two sentences that were copied verbatim without quotes, with everything else being paraphrased) to "holy Batman! how could OP possibly have thought this was okay?" (say, OP copied entire paragraphs verbatim without quotes). If the former, rejecting the plea deal might be the best option; if the latter, OP really can't do much beyond accepting the deal, demonstrating full acceptance and remorse, and throwing themselves on the mercy of their employer and bar C&F.

In short, I think it's reckless and irresponsible for us to advise OP whether to fight the charge or accept the plea deal.

I agree with the posters above who've advised OP to hire a better lawyer. I'd plump for a C&F lawyer, honestly, because as some posters have pointed out, how this is resolved could very well impact OP's ability to be admitted to the bar down the road.

Thank you for the input. Besides the question of accepting or rejecting the plea deal, my main inquiry in this post is to figure out how to disclose what's currently on the plate to my employer that will cause minimum damage. Do you have an opinion on this?

Anonymous User wrote:Thank you for the input. Besides the question of accepting or rejecting the plea deal, my main inquiry in this post is to figure out how to disclose what's currently on the plate to my employer that will cause minimum damage. Do you have an opinion on this?

I don't think you need to (or should) disclose an unresolved proceeding.