Carving out personal time as Biglaw junior - average/possible?!?! Forum

[abiglawyer]

If you're willing to do away with boundaries in order to take a long shot at partner then what are you asking? Hook your work phone up to a speaker system and be the most responsive associate at your firm (and enjoy never dating/waking up to automated firm emails in the early morning after a sixteen hour workday).

[Anonymous User]

If you're willing to do away with boundaries in order to take a long shot at partner then what are you asking? Hook your work phone up to a speaker system and be the most responsive associate at your firm (and enjoy never dating/waking up to automated firm emails in the early morning after a sixteen hour workday).

That and even if you don't get urgent work emails throughout the night, you will almost certainly get announcement emails between 3 and 5am every single day of your life.

[MaxMcMann]

Cool story bro.

It's much easier to do these ridiculous scenarios than to give actual advice.

[abiglawyer]

Cool story bro.

It's much easier to do these ridiculous scenarios than to give actual advice.

What kind of advice are you looking for? We told you no one answers emails at 4 a.m. and you blew us off as not being partner material. If I'm being flippant it's because I've seen dozens of 2Ls in this forum overconfidently projecting their partnership chances, and I'm just trying to make the best of a boring situation.

To give you a more serious answer, there's nothing easier than saying you're going to do something. But living through months or years of consecutive fifteen-hour days is an entirely different matter. Once you've done a little bit of that, you'll have a different opinion on whether or not you want to wake up in the middle of the night to answer emails.

[MaxMcMann]

Cool story bro.

It's much easier to do these ridiculous scenarios than to give actual advice.

What kind of advice are you looking for? We told you no one answers emails at 4 a.m. and you blew us off as not being partner material. If I'm being flippant it's because I've seen dozens of 2Ls in this forum overconfidently projecting their partnership chances, and I'm just trying to make the best of a boring situation.

To give you a more serious answer, there's nothing easier than saying you're going to do something. But living through months or years of consecutive fifteen-hour days is an entirely different matter. Once you've done a little bit of that, you'll have a different opinion on whether or not you want to wake up in the middle of the night to answer emails.

Yeah but you need to look at it from a game theory perspective. If I opt not to go for partner, I already know exactly what to do - assert reasonable boundaries.

Now I'm asking for the other case. You might remember this from the "forks" book that everyone here says to read for 0L.

[abiglawyer]

Yeah but you need to look at it from a game theory perspective. If I opt not to go for partner, I already know exactly what to do - assert reasonable boundaries.

Now I'm asking for the other case. You might remember this from the "forks" book that everyone here says to read for 0L.

Wow, thanks for explaining that to me. Now that I understand what you're looking for, I think I can help you out; that is, assuming I'm not too dumb to do so!

My first piece of advice would just be to point out that your attitude is great. There's nothing more pleasant than sophomoric condescension to someone who knows a subject significantly better than you do. I promise that partners especially enjoy being condescended to, so you're off to a great start, no matter which fork you pick!

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Pls don’t feed the troll

[MaxMcMann]

Yeah but you need to look at it from a game theory perspective. If I opt not to go for partner, I already know exactly what to do - assert reasonable boundaries.

Now I'm asking for the other case. You might remember this from the "forks" book that everyone here says to read for 0L.

Wow, thanks for explaining that to me. Now that I understand what you're looking for, I think I can help you out; that is, assuming I'm not too dumb to do so!

My first piece of advice would just be to point out that your attitude is great. There's nothing more pleasant than sophomoric condescension to someone who knows a subject significantly better than you do. I promise that partners especially enjoy being condescended to, so you're off to a great start, no matter which fork you pick!

You have proven completely unable to give me a good answer despite your obvious and unquestionable superiority.

[patent_guy]

Yeah but you need to look at it from a game theory perspective. If I opt not to go for partner, I already know exactly what to do - assert reasonable boundaries.

Now I'm asking for the other case. You might remember this from the "forks" book that everyone here says to read for 0L.

Wow, thanks for explaining that to me. Now that I understand what you're looking for, I think I can help you out; that is, assuming I'm not too dumb to do so!

My first piece of advice would just be to point out that your attitude is great. There's nothing more pleasant than sophomoric condescension to someone who knows a subject significantly better than you do. I promise that partners especially enjoy being condescended to, so you're off to a great start, no matter which fork you pick!

You have proven completely unable to give me a good answer despite your obvious and unquestionable superiority.

My advice is to set your boundaries because you have demonstrated in this thread that you are probably very difficult to work with, decreasing the already slim chances of making partner.

[Anonymous User]

Ex-banker guy/gal. Serious answer to 4am email kid, assuming s/he's not a troll.

No one will email you at 4am expecting you to answer immediately unless it's already been established that you will need to be awake at that time. Partners need to sleep too. That said, I used to set 6:30am alarms specifically to spin through email. 95% of the time I'd just have newsletters and I'd go back to bed, sleep for another or two. But 5% there is something semi-important, and then I'd be able to respond/get an early start. So IDK, do that if you want to be exceptional.

[Anonymous User]

Ex-banker guy/gal. Serious answer to 4am email kid, assuming s/he's not a troll.

No one will email you at 4am expecting you to answer immediately unless it's already been established that you will need to be awake at that time. Partners need to sleep too. That said, I used to set 6:30am alarms specifically to spin through email. 95% of the time I'd just have newsletters and I'd go back to bed, sleep for another or two. But 5% there is something semi-important, and then I'd be able to respond/get an early start. So IDK, do that if you want to be exceptional.

Yeah, literally the only time I've been "expected" to answer at 4am was a deal where the deal team had literally been in the office all weekend, we had all pulled all-nighters in the office together and we were doing all the work to build up to a signing to take place ASAP that morning for a filing once the market opened. Therefore, we were all still awake at 4am after said 48-hour work bender so e-mails were flying back and forth.

Otherwise NO ONE will expect you to answer at 4 am. No. One.

[Anonymous User]

Ex banker intern and ex summer associate here with very demanding MDs/partners that did expect occasional 4am responses.

They ALWAYS warned it might be coming.

With the MD it was an immediate response saying something like I will look at this now and I will send you comments when I land.

With the partner he’d literally say one of the associates needs to stay up just in case they get ready to close (this happened quite a bit, I was on an east coast team and some deals were in CA and some involved international investors.) We always knew because when it got close, the BC emails started flying.

NOBODY is insane enough to expect you to answer emails at 4am with no warning at all. That said, you ARE expected to keep a reasonable life schedule even when between deals. Responding to an email at 10am (maybe earlier, depending on partner I assume) with “sorry just saw this. Slept in because it’s been slow” Is not gonna cut it.

[Anonymous User]

It seems OP is wanting to set boundaries and receive a guarantee from the attorneys OP work with to be okay with the boundaries OP has set. Unfortunately, there is never a guarantee. Not all attorney are reasonable. And while personal boundaries are undoubtedly reasonable, you cannot reason with unreasonable people.

This is why it is important to prioritize your work and your life. If you are staffed on a major deal, then it is necessary for you to be on top of every item at all times. If a partner who is not staffed on the major deal assign objectively immaterial busy work at 7 PM and threatens it needs to be done ASAP, then don’t be afraid to say you are able to complete the busy work at a later date. If the 7 PM busy work partner bitches about you being slow, then you know that partner is unreasonable.Especially if you need to unwind for a bit to fully focus on major deals you are staffed on. I would rather have the reputation that I managed my role in a major transactional well instead of trying to please an unreasonable partner with impossible expectations.